Are you kidding me Vic Carruci..

Originally posted by ninerfan818:

Originally posted by susweel:
Popularity contest.

The ProBowl has turned into just that. If you are popular you are a sure in over someone who is productive.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Such fvcking bulls**t.

Witten is Eric Johnson like someone said. Not bad but nothing spectacular IMO. Put him on another team w/o Romo and he dissapears IMO.

Gonzalez is fine by me out of respect if anything. Still contributing at his age and making Matt Ryan look good. Truly a play maker.

VD should be a lock. F the NFL and their stupid biases.

Aaaaaaand fail.

Witten is a much much better player than EJ. MUCH BETTER.

Career stats

Season Team  Receiving
G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
2009      15  15  88 954 10.8 69 1
2008    16  16  81 952 11.8 42 4
2007    16  16  96 1,145 11.9 53 7
2006    16  15  64 754 11.8 42 1
2005    16  16  66 757 11.5 34 6
2004    16  15  87 980 11.3 42T 6
2003   15  7  35 347 9.9 36T 1

The stats from 04 are with Vinny T at QB while 2005 had Bledsoe at QB. He has been very consistent for the Cowboys and has been good for 40+ 1st down catches every year since his rookie year. He has always been a playmaker despite his lack of speed and regardless of the OC or QB. He's a pretty good when kept in to block as well.

Let's not go and try to take credit away from great players because we are upset at the possibility that VD may not get in. Yes Witten is a great TE, and ranks as one of the best all around TE's in the league and probably ahead of VD (not to take anything away from Davis but let's put homerism aside) still as Davis only came around THIS year (as a complete TE and a team player).

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Such fvcking bulls**t.

Witten is Eric Johnson like someone said. Not bad but nothing spectacular IMO. Put him on another team w/o Romo and he dissapears IMO.

Gonzalez is fine by me out of respect if anything. Still contributing at his age and making Matt Ryan look good. Truly a play maker.

VD should be a lock. F the NFL and their stupid biases.

Aaaaaaand fail.

Witten is a much much better player than EJ. MUCH BETTER.

Career stats

Season Team  Receiving
G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
2009      15  15  88 954 10.8 69 1
2008    16  16  81 952 11.8 42 4
2007    16  16  96 1,145 11.9 53 7
2006    16  15  64 754 11.8 42 1
2005    16  16  66 757 11.5 34 6
2004    16  15  87 980 11.3 42T 6
2003   15  7  35 347 9.9 36T 1

The stats from 04 are with Vinny T at QB while 2005 had Bledsoe at QB. He has been very consistent for the Cowboys and has been good for 40+ 1st down catches every year since his rookie year. He has always been a playmaker despite his lack of speed and regardless of the OC or QB. He's a pretty good when kept in to block as well.

Let's not go and try to take credit away from great players because we are upset at the possibility that VD may not get in. Yes Witten is a great TE, and ranks as one of the best all around TE's in the league and probably ahead of VD (not to take anything away from Davis but let's put homerism aside) still as Davis only came around THIS year (as a complete TE and a team player).

Aaaannnd you missed my point.


My point was about THIS year. Witten hasn't done anything spectacular THIS year to be guaranteed a starting spot. And he isnt @ Gonzalez level yet where you have shoe in basically. I wouldnt consider Witten a future HOFer for sure. Also, pro bowl selection is based on THE CURRENT YEAR'S production. VD has surpassed Witten where it matters: scoring.

It's not Witten's fault nobody covers him. Makes me kinda sick he's so wide open all the time.

Originally posted by MaliCali:
This guy thinks the TE Pro Bowlers for the NFC will be Gonzales....and Witten..

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8155a051&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

i could see some ill-informed fans having this bias opinion, but really? you are sports analyst and you have shown how little paying attention you actually devote to football?

That BS stunt with Alex this weekend didn't help.... plus he's a headcase and has big time DIVA written all over him once he tastes success on a large scale.

Originally posted by posterX:

Originally posted by MaliCali:
This guy thinks the TE Pro Bowlers for the NFC will be Gonzales....and Witten..

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8155a051&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

i could see some ill-informed fans having this bias opinion, but really? you are sports analyst and you have shown how little paying attention you actually devote to football?

That BS stunt with Alex this weekend didn't help.... plus he's a headcase and has big time DIVA written all over him once he tastes success on a large scale.

Okay you need to stop trolling or you'll find yourself banned whoever you are.

Witten and Gonzales are both better tight ends than Vernon. They are CLUTCH. Vernon has had too many drops this year. A Pro Bowl tight end catches that ball against the Seahawks in the 4th qtr. Vernon's stats are good but you cant argue that he is better than Witten or Gonzales.

Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Witten and Gonzales are both better tight ends than Vernon. They are CLUTCH. Vernon has had too many drops this year. A Pro Bowl tight end catches that ball against the Seahawks in the 4th qtr. Vernon's stats are good but you cant argue that he is better than Witten or Gonzales.

I actually agree.

VD leads all TE in TD passes but he also leads all TE in dropped passes and penalties. He needs to learn to play a better mental game before he can be considered an elite tight end.

Originally posted by posterX:

Originally posted by MaliCali:
This guy thinks the TE Pro Bowlers for the NFC will be Gonzales....and Witten..

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8155a051&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

i could see some ill-informed fans having this bias opinion, but really? you are sports analyst and you have shown how little paying attention you actually devote to football?

That BS stunt with Alex this weekend didn't help.... plus he's a headcase and has big time DIVA written all over him once he tastes success on a large scale.

Originally posted by Esco:

Originally posted by posterX:

Originally posted by MaliCali:
This guy thinks the TE Pro Bowlers for the NFC will be Gonzales....and Witten..

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8155a051&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

i could see some ill-informed fans having this bias opinion, but really? you are sports analyst and you have shown how little paying attention you actually devote to football?

That BS stunt with Alex this weekend didn't help.... plus he's a headcase and has big time DIVA written all over him once he tastes success on a large scale.

Okay you need to stop trolling or you'll find yourself banned whoever you are.

Honestly, I don't think that last post was trolling. He does have Diva-like tendencies that, although in remission this year, could very well resurface if he becomes a big time star. I also agree the "stunt" he pulled should have cost us a touchdown (not sure what the refs where looking at). He's made major strides but he is far from being the 100% unselfish, reliable, team leader he needs to be. The drops and penalties may be hurting his case.

Originally posted by smileyman:

Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Witten and Gonzales are both better tight ends than Vernon. They are CLUTCH. Vernon has had too many drops this year. A Pro Bowl tight end catches that ball against the Seahawks in the 4th qtr. Vernon's stats are good but you cant argue that he is better than Witten or Gonzales.

I actually agree.

VD leads all TE in TD passes but he also leads all TE in dropped passes and penalties. He needs to learn to play a better mental game before he can be considered an elite tight end.

and the thread should end right here. If any 2 out of those 3 make they will have deserved it. You can make a case for/against all 3 of them.

Originally posted by smileyman:

Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Witten and Gonzales are both better tight ends than Vernon. They are CLUTCH. Vernon has had too many drops this year. A Pro Bowl tight end catches that ball against the Seahawks in the 4th qtr. Vernon's stats are good but you cant argue that he is better than Witten or Gonzales.

I actually agree.

VD leads all TE in TD passes but he also leads all TE in dropped passes and penalties. He needs to learn to play a better mental game before he can be considered an elite tight end.

I'll take mope penalties and 3 or 4 more drops, if I can get 11 more TD's. What the hell are u people thinking. Witten has 7 or 8 drops this year, he's not that far behind VD.

Here are some stats for you guys:

Clark- 93 Receptions, 1,054 yards, 10 TD's,
Witten- 88 receptions, 954 yards, 1 TD
Gonzales- 80 receptons, 837 yards, 6 TD's
Gates- 78 receptions, 1145 yards, 7 TD's
Davis- 72 receptions, 876 yards, 12 TD's

Out of these players, Vernon is last in receptions, and second to last in yards. Davis is only leading these players in TD receptions.

Look at Lendale White last year. He had 15 touchdowns and only 773 rushing yards. Just because he scored a lot of touchdowns doesnt mean that he is the best at his position. Penalites and dropped passes count against you. Vernon has had a great year but is still not an ELITE tight end

Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Here are some stats for you guys:

Clark- 93 Receptions, 1,054 yards, 10 TD's,
Witten- 88 receptions, 954 yards, 1 TD
Gonzales- 80 receptons, 837 yards, 6 TD's
Gates- 78 receptions, 1145 yards, 7 TD's
Davis- 72 receptions, 876 yards, 12 TD's

Out of these players, Vernon is last in receptions, and second to last in yards. Davis is only leading these players in TD receptions.

Look at Lendale White last year. He had 15 touchdowns and only 773 rushing yards. Just because he scored a lot of touchdowns doesnt mean that he is the best at his position. Penalites and dropped passes count against you. Vernon has had a great year but is still not an ELITE tight end

shouldnt matter Vernon has bettrer overall numbers than Witten IMO. But thats me.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Such fvcking bulls**t.

Witten is Eric Johnson like someone said. Not bad but nothing spectacular IMO. Put him on another team w/o Romo and he dissapears IMO.

Gonzalez is fine by me out of respect if anything. Still contributing at his age and making Matt Ryan look good. Truly a play maker.

VD should be a lock. F the NFL and their stupid biases.

Aaaaaaand fail.

Witten is a much much better player than EJ. MUCH BETTER.

Career stats

Season Team  Receiving
G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
2009      15  15  88 954 10.8 69 1
2008    16  16  81 952 11.8 42 4
2007    16  16  96 1,145 11.9 53 7
2006    16  15  64 754 11.8 42 1
2005    16  16  66 757 11.5 34 6
2004    16  15  87 980 11.3 42T 6
2003   15  7  35 347 9.9 36T 1

The stats from 04 are with Vinny T at QB while 2005 had Bledsoe at QB. He has been very consistent for the Cowboys and has been good for 40+ 1st down catches every year since his rookie year. He has always been a playmaker despite his lack of speed and regardless of the OC or QB. He's a pretty good when kept in to block as well.

Let's not go and try to take credit away from great players because we are upset at the possibility that VD may not get in. Yes Witten is a great TE, and ranks as one of the best all around TE's in the league and probably ahead of VD (not to take anything away from Davis but let's put homerism aside) still as Davis only came around THIS year (as a complete TE and a team player).

Aaaannnd you missed my point.


My point was about THIS year. Witten hasn't done anything spectacular THIS year to be guaranteed a starting spot. And he isnt @ Gonzalez level yet where you have shoe in basically. I wouldnt consider Witten a future HOFer for sure. Also, pro bowl selection is based on THE CURRENT YEAR'S production. VD has surpassed Witten where it matters: scoring.

Your point ? You never made that clear in your post, that your point was all about scoring. The PB selections should not be based on scoring alone and that is likely why VC chose Witten and not VD.

Witten surpassed VD THIS YEAR in every category (to date) except TD's, that's catches/yards/first downs. VD leads Witten and the NFL in one other category......drops. And that matters. Witten has been to the last 5 PB's for the NFC....why ? Production. Witten will likely go over 1000 yards receiving which is spectacular for a TE, but because he doesn't have double digit TD's you refer to his production from this year as not spectacular.