Competition for Alex Smith

Originally posted by midrdan:
What's wrong with Nate Davis taking over as the No. 2? I like his upside and think it would be important to find out if he can be "the guy" for the future. Smith may continue to improve or may not, but I think, in addition to giving Smith the opportunity next year as the No. 1, we should continue to develop Davis as his heir. A lot of "draft experts" went on record saying he was a steal and had huge upside. Let's see what he can do. Bulger as the No. 3 ... that might not be a bad idea. Hasselbeck will not sign with a team to be a No. 2 - Seattle will likely keep him as a starter next year.

I really hope that Davis can step up (and be given a chance to step up) and be the #2 next year. Regardless of who was playing, Davis gave a glimpse of some intangibles that are very intriquing. I agree with most of your assessment above.

But regarding the draft, the only people who really should be considered experts are the one's who job it is to make the picks and who have to live with the consequences of those picks. Kiper and others don't have to worry about that. General Managers, Coaches and Directors of Player Personnel do. Do they make mistakes? Absolutely. Walsh did. Eventually if they make enough mistakes both they and the organization have to pay a price. Draft 'experts' usually do not.

Singletary and Scottie have been around Davis for awhile now. They are able to assess things that we as fans can not. Hopefully he has gained their confidence that he is ready to be given a shot at the #2; both the further development of Smith and Davis would be what is best for the Niners in their current state.

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

Sorry that we "haters" just don't see the greatness in AS that you do. Let Alex prove us wrong and play lights out for an entire season and we'll all go out and get Alex jerseys, fatheads, bobbleheads or whatever. I, for one, could care less if the name on the back of the jersey says Smith, Hill, Neo or Morpheus as long as the name on the front says 49ers.

Next seaon is going to really answer the Smith question to be honest.

Either Smith will succed or he will not. No one will make "excuses" for him at that point. He will have no reason to NOT succeed...unless of course we draft all defense or some dumb sht but I dont see that happening. I think we've PAINFULLY learned our lesson that you can draft and start all the QBs, WRs, RBs, TEs that you want but if you can't block for the QB, RB, or win in the trenches...we will be a perennial 7-9 or 8-8 team.

Look @ other teams with no line. GENERALLY they are like us. W,L,W,L,W,L. One week their QB is the man, the next he's a chump. O-line is awesome one week, and frosh-soph the next.

And yes, Green Bay has managed to succeed regardless. But look at the bigger picture there. They have had offensive continuity for years now. They are running the same system WITH play makers ever since Rodgers was drafted. When you have THAT much trust, timing, and chemistry with your recievers, you can "make up" more or less for a bad o-line. Also, yes, Rodgers did succeed with a sub par o-line and the Pack are in the play offs. But do you think they will beat the Saints? Eagles? or even the Cards come play off time? I dont think so personally. I'm not knocking Rodgers or the Packers. They did an awesome job. I'm just saying no o-line will eventually cause them problems. Rodgers, Favre, whomever...will only get them so far.

O-line will put you over the top (or throw you over a cliff).

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

Sorry that we "haters" just don't see the greatness in AS that you do. Let Alex prove us wrong and play lights out for an entire season and we'll all go out and get Alex jerseys, fatheads, bobbleheads or whatever. I, for one, could care less if the name on the back of the jersey says Smith, Hill, Neo or Morpheus as long as the name on the front says 49ers.

I have never claimed that Smith was/is or ever will be great. What I have always said is that I will actually wait to make my judgment on him. So far this season he has played pretty well. Only 49er fans will b***h and complain about a game in which the starting QB goes 20/31 for 270 yards 1TD and 0 INT. Like I said some fans will never be satisfied. He isn't playing lights out and he has plenty of room for improvement. And that is the reason why I say give him the offseason and a full TC getting all of the reps as the starter in the same system for more than 1 season in his entire career. If he doesn't improve and the team isn't winning due to Smith then I would say go ahead and cut our ties with him and move on. Key words being NOT WINNING DUE TO SMITH! I know some of you haters blame everything that goes wrong in the world on Smith so that is why the rational and logical fans will be able to point out the reasons for not winning. Things like poor OLine, no pass rush, no secondary.. I think you get the hint.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

I agree a lot of people love to bash Alex Smith and it seems like they can't wait to do and root for him to fail. When I was at the 49er MNF game against Arizona you can almost feel so many people who can't wait to boo him. That being said, Alex Smith's play has been inconsistent and he has not proven himself to be a a sure fire starting QB in this league so a lot of us have questions and going into next year, we have to make the playoffs, no more excuses and no more excuses for Alex Smith. Like I said, Alex deserves to go into next season as our starting QB but we have a fallback option if Alex struggles and also a guy who can push Alex Smith a little and to me that guy IS NOT Shuan Hill and I don't think it is Nate Davis either.

How mediocre does Smith need to be before admitting he just doesn't have "IT"? He still misses wide open receivers or hits them late or with such bad throws that they have no chance for YAC. He has yet to put an entire game together and produced ZERO points after 6 turnovers, yet again failing to capitalize. Yeah, yeah, heard all the excuses before, and all not his fault, but plenty was. How many turnovers does our defense need to give us in order for us to get some points on the board? How many unconverted 3rd downs? How many deflected passes? He's like DeBerg, just good enough to tantalize you, but not good enough to come through. Sing wants to play him the rest of the way to see what he's got? Well, I think we've seen it. Doesn't matter if the opponent is good or bad, and Detroit is bad.......he still doesn't produce. It's inarguable in my opinion.....the facts are there. We need to look elsewhere and start by giving Davis a fwe series against the next weak opponent. It won't be throwing him to the wolves like we did with Alex and will give us a peak at what he's been able to assimilate over the course of this season.

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

You don't "Give" him anything. He has to earn the job in preseason next year IMO. It would be unwise to just ride the guys we have next year expecting it to work out...we need to bring in another veteran that is capable of starting in order to push him and possibly take over if needed..

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

I agree a lot of people love to bash Alex Smith and it seems like they can't wait to do and root for him to fail. When I was at the 49er MNF game against Arizona you can almost feel so many people who can't wait to boo him. That being said, Alex Smith's play has been inconsistent and he has not proven himself to be a a sure fire starting QB in this league so a lot of us have questions and going into next year, we have to make the playoffs, no more excuses and no more excuses for Alex Smith. Like I said, Alex deserves to go into next season as our starting QB but we have a fallback option if Alex struggles and also a guy who can push Alex Smith a little and to me that guy IS NOT Shuan Hill and I don't think it is Nate Davis either.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The likely hood of the team making it to the playoffs next year is slim but there is still a chance. If the team addresses all of the issues then it will be proven that Smith was not the problem this season. And if he proves that he isn't the guy then time to move on and find a QB. If that QB is Nate Davis then so be it, at least he had the chance to sit for 2 years and learn as much as he can before being thrown to the wolves. which in my eyes is the proper way to handle a rookie QB.

Originally posted by midrdan:
What's wrong with Nate Davis taking over as the No. 2? I like his upside and think it would be important to find out if he can be "the guy" for the future. Smith may continue to improve or may not, but I think, in addition to giving Smith the opportunity next year as the No. 1, we should continue to develop Davis as his heir. A lot of "draft experts" went on record saying he was a steal and had huge upside. Let's see what he can do. Bulger as the No. 3 ... that might not be a bad idea. Hasselbeck will not sign with a team to be a No. 2 - Seattle will likely keep him as a starter next year.

Im okay with letting Nate Davis compete for the #2 job but I just don't feel comfortable with him being one snap away from being our starting QB in 2010. He played well in pre-season against 3rd string guys and we had to really scale back the playbook for him. I still think his learning disability will prevent him from being a starting NFL QB, I could be wrong and I hope im wrong but I just don't know many dyslexic NFL quarterbacks...

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

I agree a lot of people love to bash Alex Smith and it seems like they can't wait to do and root for him to fail. When I was at the 49er MNF game against Arizona you can almost feel so many people who can't wait to boo him. That being said, Alex Smith's play has been inconsistent and he has not proven himself to be a a sure fire starting QB in this league so a lot of us have questions and going into next year, we have to make the playoffs, no more excuses and no more excuses for Alex Smith. Like I said, Alex deserves to go into next season as our starting QB but we have a fallback option if Alex struggles and also a guy who can push Alex Smith a little and to me that guy IS NOT Shuan Hill and I don't think it is Nate Davis either.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The likely hood of the team making it to the playoffs next year is slim but there is still a chance. If the team addresses all of the issues then it will be proven that Smith was not the problem this season. And if he proves that he isn't the guy then time to move on and find a QB. If that QB is Nate Davis then so be it, at least he had the chance to sit for 2 years and learn as much as he can before being thrown to the wolves. which in my eyes is the proper way to handle a rookie QB.

I think the team has to make the playoffs next year and I expect them to. I do believe they can be a playoff team with Alex Smith as the starting QB but im not 100% confident in that and that is why I think they have to bring another solid vetran QB who can come in and win games if Alex Smith is not getting it done or if he gets hurt. Im sorry I think Shuan Hill's days as a starting QB are over and im talking one game or 16 games. Okay maybe for one game I think Shuan Hill can do a decent job but not more than one game, it has been exposed in this league that Shuan Hill cannot throw the ball down the field and once you take away the flats, he just can't get it done.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

You don't "Give" him anything. He has to earn the job in preseason next year IMO. It would be unwise to just ride the guys we have next year expecting it to work out...we need to bring in another veteran that is capable of starting in order to push him and possibly take over if needed..

Originally posted by 4evrfan:
How mediocre does Smith need to be before admitting he just doesn't have "IT"? He still misses wide open receivers or hits them late or with such bad throws that they have no chance for YAC. He has yet to put an entire game together and produced ZERO points after 6 turnovers, yet again failing to capitalize. Yeah, yeah, heard all the excuses before, and all not his fault, but plenty was. How many turnovers does our defense need to give us in order for us to get some points on the board? How many unconverted 3rd downs? How many deflected passes? He's like DeBerg, just good enough to tantalize you, but not good enough to come through. Sing wants to play him the rest of the way to see what he's got? Well, I think we've seen it. Doesn't matter if the opponent is good or bad, and Detroit is bad.......he still doesn't produce. It's inarguable in my opinion.....the facts are there. We need to look elsewhere and start by giving Davis a fwe series against the next weak opponent. It won't be throwing him to the wolves like we did with Alex and will give us a peak at what he's been able to assimilate over the course of this season.

I agree. I am starting to think he is getting close to his ceiling. I see certain areas where he seems to be doing the same things he was as a rookie. He still throws screen passes repeatedly behind receivers. I am beginning to think he can't be fixed and is not the future of the franchise, while better than the other clowns we have had behind center since Garcia left.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

Sorry that we "haters" just don't see the greatness in AS that you do. Let Alex prove us wrong and play lights out for an entire season and we'll all go out and get Alex jerseys, fatheads, bobbleheads or whatever. I, for one, could care less if the name on the back of the jersey says Smith, Hill, Neo or Morpheus as long as the name on the front says 49ers.

I have never claimed that Smith was/is or ever will be great. What I have always said is that I will actually wait to make my judgment on him. So far this season he has played pretty well. Only 49er fans will b***h and complain about a game in which the starting QB goes 20/31 for 270 yards 1TD and 0 INT. Like I said some fans will never be satisfied. He isn't playing lights out and he has plenty of room for improvement. And that is the reason why I say give him the offseason and a full TC getting all of the reps as the starter in the same system for more than 1 season in his entire career. If he doesn't improve and the team isn't winning due to Smith then I would say go ahead and cut our ties with him and move on. Key words being NOT WINNING DUE TO SMITH! I know some of you haters blame everything that goes wrong in the world on Smith so that is why the rational and logical fans will be able to point out the reasons for not winning. Things like poor OLine, no pass rush, no secondary.. I think you get the hint.

"You haters"? Back to that? I thought I cleared that up. I am a 49 year old man with a wife and kids . Believe me the world doesn't revolve around AS for me as it does for some. I'm just trying to explain my train of thought but you don't want to hear it so lets agree to disagree, let it play out and revisit it in a year.

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Can't we just give Smith the "starter" label and see what he can do with a full offseason knowing he's the starter?

I'm just tired of the excuses, make him the starter if he fails next season we can all move on.

this is what is going to happen but sadly even if Smith comes out in 2010 and lights up the league the haters will still make excuses and claim that his success is due to someone else and that Smith still is a bust.

Sorry that we "haters" just don't see the greatness in AS that you do. Let Alex prove us wrong and play lights out for an entire season and we'll all go out and get Alex jerseys, fatheads, bobbleheads or whatever. I, for one, could care less if the name on the back of the jersey says Smith, Hill, Neo or Morpheus as long as the name on the front says 49ers.

I have never claimed that Smith was/is or ever will be great. What I have always said is that I will actually wait to make my judgment on him. So far this season he has played pretty well. Only 49er fans will b***h and complain about a game in which the starting QB goes 20/31 for 270 yards 1TD and 0 INT. Like I said some fans will never be satisfied. He isn't playing lights out and he has plenty of room for improvement. And that is the reason why I say give him the offseason and a full TC getting all of the reps as the starter in the same system for more than 1 season in his entire career. If he doesn't improve and the team isn't winning due to Smith then I would say go ahead and cut our ties with him and move on. Key words being NOT WINNING DUE TO SMITH! I know some of you haters blame everything that goes wrong in the world on Smith so that is why the rational and logical fans will be able to point out the reasons for not winning. Things like poor OLine, no pass rush, no secondary.. I think you get the hint.

"You haters"? Back to that? I thought I cleared that up. I am a 49 year old man with a wife and kids . Believe me the world doesn't revolve around AS for me as it does for some. I'm just trying to explain my train of thought but you don't want to hear it so lets agree to disagree, let it play out and revisit it in a year.

you call yourself a hater then get pissed when I group you in with the rest of the haters.