Finally a comparison that nobody can dispute - Alex Smith vs Matt Stafford

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by solidg2000:
Megatron > B Lloyd

and who ever said your rookie year will determine how good you can be?

ok, how about 5 years of Tim Couch's stats being better than 5 years of Alex Smith stats??

How about we wait until this time in 2010

are you hiring? I want you to be my boss. I would love to have 6 years of laying goose eggs and have you still being patient with me.

Great, another metrosexual hater. Your comparison is incredibly stupid. Man, all rationale has left this place when it comes to Smith.

I'm glad I didn't say that, because the mods would have swooped in and warned me for inciting.

Shaj, I thought you retired from Niner Talk?

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
yay, lets post stats from 5 years ago and act as if they are in any way relevant!



He sucked his rookie year, so he must suck forever? Is that passing for logic these days?

I agree, it is irrelevent at this point, but it closes the debate on his first year.

As for his performance to date, pick any QB with the same # of starts in the NFL in the last five years and draw a comparison and find one that makes Smith look good. I don't think you can. Smith's stats are Joey Harrington and Charlie Frye like in that span.

Who cares about his history?

All that matters is how he's playing today. Again, I don't know where you're going with this...

-9fA

what I've seen the last 2 games is "the same old Alex Smith" (59.7 and 42.3 rating respectively). Out of 9 games this year, only 4 of them produced a passer rating of above 80, and his overall passer rating is below 80 for the year as well. Its hard as an objective fan to witness this mediocrity year over year. Challenging who we have at QB is not being a hater, it's being a staunch supporter of this team. I think there are very few unbiased posters on this topic in the zone. You think Billichek would accept this level of ongoing mediocrity? Walsh? Lombardi? Hell no. And we as fans shouldn't either.

No matter how we cut it, slice it, or compare it, it comes down to this - the 2010 season is do or die for Alex. For him not to go the way of the Dodo bird, he has to prove he can consistently perform and lead this team, esp in big games. Keeping Raye's system for the next season will give Alex the resources necessary to save his football life. This is it, after this, there can be no more chances - no more excuses.

If he fails next season, REAL CHANGE must be made.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.
41 career games played.

Today will be the 42nd game that Smith has ever PLAYED IN - not even started.

42 games < 5 years.

5 years = 80 games.

42/80 = .525

5 x .525 = 2.625 years.

I thought you did real estate law, not criminal defense law!

I think if we weren't all niner fans we wouldn't be so biased on this topic. 42 games is A LOT of games. It really is. Bottom line is, this kid is slow as molasses to learn, produces rookie results year after year, and with some exceptions.... plays his worst when it matters the most. It took him 40 games to have a 300 yard game? Come one, bro, take the goggles off.....

My point was that the kid has played less than 3 years worth of games - not 5. He is now right in the midst of what SHOULD BE his fastest period of improvement. Will we see it? I don't know, but I have been encouraged by Smith this year.

Bottom line is that I want this team to play the QB that gives us the best chance of winning. Right now - and in 2010 (barring a trade for a franchise QB, which will not happen) - that is Smith, IMO.

Originally posted by Shaj:
In years past, we tried to compare Smith to other first round QBs, but the entire zone would jump in and say that the comparison wasn't fair, because the other QB went to a better team. We now have Matt Stafford, who went #1 overall to the worst team in NFL history. Those excuses are all gone now.

Alex Smith year 1 (9 games):
1 TD passing, 0 rushing TDs, 11 Int's, 875 yards, 40.8 passer rating

Matt Stafford year 1 (first 9 games - last game not included):
12 TD's passing, 2 rushing TDs, 18 Int's, 2,124 yards, 61.0 passer rating

I know it is 5 years later, but now that there is finally a comparison that people swinging from Smith's balls cannot refute, I thought we should look at it.

Now Smith will win these last two games with a high passer rating, like all other NFL teams and QBs that have played the Lions and the Rams, and that will result in irrational exuberance on this board regarding Smith's capabilities. I think the data shows however that his is a very, very average QB whose career has been propped up by his great attitude and endless excuses by those around him. His stats through five years are in fact not better than Tim Couch's stats!

Good thread that has a controlled comparison. People who think Alex Smith can even sniff Stafford's jock (at the same point in their careers) are crazy. That guy is going to be worlds better than Smith by next season.

As far as Smith goes, the guy has gotten better but he still is a below average NFL QB who, to any non 49er fan, is a busted #1 overall trying to salvage his career. It's sad that he still has fundamental issues with being a QB. The number of excuses given to this guy are unreal.

If things don't work out for him, he's going to be relegated to backup status the rest of his career.

This franchise FAILED by not grooming another QB to potentially replace Smith or Hill til last year with a late round pick in Davis. 2007 and 2008 classes should have had QBs in them.

Originally posted by ObePwnD:
No matter how we cut it, slice it, or compare it, it comes down to this - the 2010 season is do or die for Alex. For him not to go the way of the Dodo bird, he has to prove he can consistently perform and lead this team, esp in big games. Keeping Raye's system for the next season will give Alex the resources necessary to save his football life. This is it, after this, there can be no more chances - no more excuses.

If he fails next season, REAL CHANGE must be made.

I agree with 2010 being the year we use to judge but the only problem is if Alex doesn't do well, the highly touted qb class comes out this coming draft.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by solidg2000:
Megatron > B Lloyd

and who ever said your rookie year will determine how good you can be?

ok, how about 5 years of Tim Couch's stats being better than 5 years of Alex Smith stats??

How about we wait until this time in 2010

are you hiring? I want you to be my boss. I would love to have 6 years of laying goose eggs and have you still being patient with me.

You are lucky you can't be canned for goose egg posts like these...

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Shaj:
In years past, we tried to compare Smith to other first round QBs, but the entire zone would jump in and say that the comparison wasn't fair, because the other QB went to a better team. We now have Matt Stafford, who went #1 overall to the worst team in NFL history. Those excuses are all gone now.

Alex Smith year 1 (9 games):
1 TD passing, 0 rushing TDs, 11 Int's, 875 yards, 40.8 passer rating

Matt Stafford year 1 (first 9 games - last game not included):
12 TD's passing, 2 rushing TDs, 18 Int's, 2,124 yards, 61.0 passer rating

I know it is 5 years later, but now that there is finally a comparison that people swinging from Smith's balls cannot refute, I thought we should look at it.

Now Smith will win these last two games with a high passer rating, like all other NFL teams and QBs that have played the Lions and the Rams, and that will result in irrational exuberance on this board regarding Smith's capabilities. I think the data shows however that his is a very, very average QB whose career has been propped up by his great attitude and endless excuses by those around him. His stats through five years are in fact not better than Tim Couch's stats!

Good thread that has a controlled comparison. People who think Alex Smith can even sniff Stafford's jock (at the same point in their careers) are crazy. That guy is going to be worlds better than Smith by next season.

As far as Smith goes, the guy has gotten better but he still is a below average NFL QB who, to any non 49er fan, is a busted #1 overall trying to salvage his career. It's sad that he still has fundamental issues with being a QB. The number of excuses given to this guy are unreal.

If things don't work out for him, he's going to be relegated to backup status the rest of his career.

This franchise FAILED by not grooming another QB to potentially replace Smith or Hill til last year with a late round pick in Davis. 2007 and 2008 classes should have had QBs in them.

THIS.

Personally I think Smith, behind a reasonable O line, will be fine, particularly now we are starting to accumulate targets for him. But I can understand why some people don't agree. What I don't understand is why, in the 2,245,749 previous threads on the subject, if I post that I get moronic responses grunting about "alexcuses".
This has happened so often I am just not interested in the debate any more.

What I am interested in, though; and I know I won't get that sort of response from Shaj; is to hear what alternatives those who want to get rid of him see as being viable.

Nate Davis is surely too much of a mystery, and unlikely to get starting calibre yet. Not sure I see much likely to come out in FA, and this year's draft class is so unimpressive in qb's that the subject of drafting an early round qb has nearly disappeared from the war room.

Not looking for a fight. Probably won't even respond. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. But for the AntiSmith Brigade, what do you hope to see as the alternative next year?

Originally posted by English:
Personally I think Smith, behind a reasonable O line, will be fine, particularly now we are starting to accumulate targets for him. But I can understand why some people don't agree. What I don't understand is why, in the 2,245,749 previous threads on the subject, if I post that I get moronic responses grunting about "alexcuses".
This has happened so often I am just not interested in the debate any more.

What I am interested in, though; and I know I won't get that sort of response from Shaj; is to hear what alternatives those who want to get rid of him see as being viable.

Nate Davis is surely too much of a mystery, and unlikely to get starting calibre yet. Not sure I see much likely to come out in FA, and this year's draft class is so unimpressive in qb's that the subject of drafting an early round qb has nearly disappeared from the war room.

Not looking for a fight. Probably won't even respond. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. But for the AntiSmith Brigade, what do you hope to see as the alternative next year?

You only get that made up word when an ignorant poster can post no reasonable position to defend his point of view or to refute yours.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
yay, lets post stats from 5 years ago and act as if they are in any way relevant!



He sucked his rookie year, so he must suck forever? Is that passing for logic these days?

I agree, it is irrelevent at this point, but it closes the debate on his first year.

As for his performance to date, pick any QB with the same # of starts in the NFL in the last five years and draw a comparison and find one that makes Smith look good. I don't think you can. Smith's stats are Joey Harrington and Charlie Frye like in that span.

Who cares about his history?

All that matters is how he's playing today. Again, I don't know where you're going with this...

-9fA

what I've seen the last 2 games is "the same old Alex Smith" (59.7 and 42.3 rating respectively). Out of 9 games this year, only 4 of them produced a passer rating of above 80, and his overall passer rating is below 80 for the year as well. Its hard as an objective fan to witness this mediocrity year over year. Challenging who we have at QB is not being a hater, it's being a staunch supporter of this team. I think there are very few unbiased posters on this topic in the zone. You think Billichek would accept this level of ongoing mediocrity? Walsh? Lombardi? Hell no. And we as fans shouldn't either.

I wasn't challenging the fact that Smith has had a sub par season or that he's had an up and down season.

The BOTTOM line is that Smith provides us the best chance to win THIS year and NEXT year. That is why he's still our QB.

If it doesn't work, we restart.

-9fA

Originally posted by English:
Personally I think Smith, behind a reasonable O line, will be fine, particularly now we are starting to accumulate targets for him. But I can understand why some people don't agree. What I don't understand is why, in the 2,245,749 previous threads on the subject, if I post that I get moronic responses grunting about "alexcuses".
This has happened so often I am just not interested in the debate any more.

What I am interested in, though; and I know I won't get that sort of response from Shaj; is to hear what alternatives those who want to get rid of him see as being viable.

Nate Davis is surely too much of a mystery, and unlikely to get starting calibre yet. Not sure I see much likely to come out in FA, and this year's draft class is so unimpressive in qb's that the subject of drafting an early round qb has nearly disappeared from the war room.

Not looking for a fight. Probably won't even respond. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. But for the AntiSmith Brigade, what do you hope to see as the alternative next year?

Exactly. This is just another "Alex Smith sucks" thread.

-9fA

They both suck

What is the point of comparing Alex and Stafford's rookie season? It only establishes that Stafford had the better rookie year.

If the issue is whether Alex's rookie year proves he will never be any good, that is foolish. Alex was only 20 years old, played only two years in college, and under a non-NFL system. Allegedly Nolan admitted after drafting Alex that Rodgers was more NFL-ready, but he thought Alex had more long-term upside.

Most teams would have never started Alex his rookie year. But, in his brilliance, Nolan did, and Alex pays the price. He is saddled with dismal stats that people like Shaj use to make worthless points.

For me, the issue is whether Alex will continue to improve, and whether the team will give him better protection and the tools to do his best. If the team does that, and Alex still fails, then we move on. For now, its hard to find a better sort-term option.