It's Do or Die Time for McCloughan

Originally posted by ninerforyears:
Is it me or did he give the signing of jt o'sullivan a c grade? If so this is beyond me! that should have been a big red F-. We need someone who has a track record of picking legitmate hofers. Get the youngest brightest guy who has been in the colts management under their gm. That would spring board us to the top!

Yes, I gave J.T. O'Sullivan a grade like that. Did you bother to read my explanation, or is it just everyone's time of the month in NinerTalk and resorted to posting with their emotions?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Take it from someone you knows; this topic is DOA in NinerTalk. Too many apologists in my opinion. No one is going to debate facts with you, but just insinuate. History and context will be rewritten. There will not be a fair reckoning of this topic until after this off-season. I agree with your assessments, but you're going to be stuck with the "negative" moniker by all those who don't agree with you on this topic.

I've decided to just let time prove this (again).

BTW - I wrote this article nearly a year ago.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/content/commentary/view.php?id=720

Curious about your opinion:

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=135642&page=8

AWESOME article - almost prophetic. And I totally agree as I agree with the very first post. Again, you'll not find an argument with me on anything you've said.

I think you are spot on, but Marvel Smith wasn't guaranteed a starting spot. He had to compete with Snyder fair and square.


BTW - I also forgot to mention the Moran Norris signing II. I think McCloughan gave him a 3 year, 5-6M dollar deal? It's funny because he's willing to shelve out that much for a retread fullback, but not for a starting guard.

Good assessment, Geek your pretty much dead on.

Originally posted by mayo63:
Good assessment, Geek your pretty much dead on.

Thanks bro.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Take it from someone you knows; this topic is DOA in NinerTalk. Too many apologists in my opinion. No one is going to debate facts with you, but just insinuate. History and context will be rewritten. There will not be a fair reckoning of this topic until after this off-season. I agree with your assessments, but you're going to be stuck with the "negative" moniker by all those who don't agree with you on this topic.

I've decided to just let time prove this (again).

BTW - I wrote this article nearly a year ago.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/content/commentary/view.php?id=720

Curious about your opinion:

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=135642&page=8

AWESOME article - almost prophetic. And I totally agree as I agree with the very first post. Again, you'll not find an argument with me on anything you've said.

I think you are spot on, but Marvel Smith wasn't guaranteed a starting spot. He had to compete with Snyder fair and square.


BTW - I also forgot to mention the Moran Norris signing II. I think McCloughan gave him a 3 year, 5-6M dollar deal? It's funny because he's willing to shelve out that much for a retread fullback, but not for a starting guard.

Thank you and that's just the point that I was trying to make.

By the way, why didn't you include the price that they were paid in assigning these grades? I'm curious as to why you've ignored blizznutz's post.

-9fA

Originally posted by ninerforyears:
We need someone who has a track record of picking legitmate hofers. Get the youngest brightest guy who has been in the colts management under their gm. That would spring board us to the top!

McC DOES have a track record of drafting Hofers.

He drafted Willis, who is the best MLB in the league (clearly a hofer career path).

Davis could potentially get to 'best TE' status in the next year or two.

Gore would be a consistent 1500 all-purpose yards/year back if he was drafted by a team that wasn't the least talented in the league at the time.

His first round success % is well above average. Other than Balmer, their first rounders have ranged from good to great.

His big-ticket FA success rate is above average. Franklin and Smith are borderline all stars, Clements has gone up and done but has generally been solid. Lewis is good.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Maybe scot didn't have as much to say the first 3.5 yrs, altho talent acquisition and scouting were his jobs. We all know he DID make all decisions once he officially became GM(and noln was fired at GM). Okay, let's make this easy. Offense only, forget the deficiencies on D and ST(no KR , no PR), and especially coaches, which is...scot's responsibility.

Offense: #1 pick in the draft, QB, 5 yrs ago. Scot in chg of talent and scouting, then 1.5 yrs GM. One would think it would be fairly obvious that #1 pick, esp a qB needs to be protected. Protect your investment if nothing else, but you cannot draft a qB #1 in draft and NOT protect him. Kid plays with no protection, shoulder gets screwed up, noln denies it, calls him out, and 2 surgeries later, and 2 seasons later, he is back...but , again, with NO protection. Guys, that is just plain old stupidity, and scot forfeits any and all claim on holding onto his job, just based on this one , stupendous, classical bonehead move. You build a team thru its lines , and OL first, if you have #1 pick in draft. Bad news? scot does not believe this.

Scot has said so and so isn't worth the money, we can get someone else cheaper
(Smiley---now helping miami to leading nfl in rushing). Well, we didn't, and scot insisted we could pick up OGs on the cheap("they aren't worth big bucks"). "Also, a 2nd or 3rd rd you can "always" pick up an OT" . Really? because we sure as hell haven't done that yet. Scot failed this team on talent evaluation, talent needs, qB protection, saving OTs that had to be re-signed(smiley). Scot did none of these things. I reserve the name mcCLOWN for good reason for our inept, out of his league, petered out principle GM because he is the one that should have his aZZ fired, or at least be in the fire, if we don't play well next two games...not alex.

Clown literally ruined the career of our #1 pick, along with noln, and he deserves to be fired accordingly. Just because jedi jed has clown as his mentor, and has said clown would be here next yr...doesn't mean that he can't change his mind. I am hacked because he is keeping clown on another yr because he is being mentored by clown and is his friend. WEll , this isn't a sewing circle, it is a football business. And all else aside, clown has failed miserably...and that is just on the O side of the ball. As an aside, clown signed off on hiring bigmike as HC...who obviously brot a lot of heart (well, some heart, maybe) to a shrinking violet team. But bigMike is the single most unqualified HC in the game, and we and the team have to suffer for it, while he "learns" how to be a HC. Being promoted to DC would sure have made more sense(okay, asst DC)

Jed needs to hand out jobs based on performance, based on business, based on level of skill, based on experience. In bigmike and Clown, we got none of the above. It is called "merit based hires" and until that happens, 7-9 IS the 49errors.
As they say, "We have met the enemy, and he is us". Go bigMIke, go Clown, go jed...go far, far, away...and please, let us have our team...and our dignity back. As for grades, Yorks, jed, Clown, bigmike, Foerster, WR coach...have made us into laughingstocks. HOnestly, it IS time for a change.

Except...our line was actually pretty good in 2006. McC put all our resources towards putting an Oline in front of Smith. He drafted Baas (the single greatest reason why you never draft for need). He signed Jennings (which obviously taught him a valuable lesson since his big-money FA signings have been great since). We brought in Allen also.

Our O-line was pretty good, but the rest of the team was terrible. A team only has the resources to build itself so quickly. He did neglect the o-line in recent years. But in doing so he built us a top-10 defense and acquired some of the top young offensive skill-position players in the league (sans QB).

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Take it from someone you knows; this topic is DOA in NinerTalk. Too many apologists in my opinion. No one is going to debate facts with you, but just insinuate. History and context will be rewritten. There will not be a fair reckoning of this topic until after this off-season. I agree with your assessments, but you're going to be stuck with the "negative" moniker by all those who don't agree with you on this topic.

I've decided to just let time prove this (again).

BTW - I wrote this article nearly a year ago.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/content/commentary/view.php?id=720

Curious about your opinion:

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=135642&page=8

AWESOME article - almost prophetic. And I totally agree as I agree with the very first post. Again, you'll not find an argument with me on anything you've said.

I think you are spot on, but Marvel Smith wasn't guaranteed a starting spot. He had to compete with Snyder fair and square.


BTW - I also forgot to mention the Moran Norris signing II. I think McCloughan gave him a 3 year, 5-6M dollar deal? It's funny because he's willing to shelve out that much for a retread fullback, but not for a starting guard.

Well the 49ers did show interest in Alan Faneca in 2008 knowing he wanted big $$, so maybe they are willing.

He should have been dead as a GM when Nolan got fired. Look at New Orleans and all the players that GM has hoarded and we get a bunch of joureymen. 5 years after McNolan, and we still don't have the talent to compete with the elites.

Rossum = C/D. not -B.

^^ Nope, but you did say "expected".

Pedantics. Yet again.

-9fA

I was looking at the 06 draft. We took VD and Manny when Nick Mangold(C), Marcus McNeil(OT) and Duece Lutui(G) were available and more of a need. The ongoing lack of protection for any of our QB's still to this day should be enough to justify MehCloughan's firing.

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
I was looking at the 06 draft. We took VD and Manny when Nick Mangold(C), Marcus McNeil(OT) and Duece Lutui(G) were available and more of a need. The ongoing lack of protection for any of our QB's still to this day should be enough to justify MehCloughan's firing.

That's a bit unfair to say. At the time, we needed play makers on offense and defense. At the time, we did have Jonas Jennings, Larry Allen, Eric Heitman, and David Baas at 4 out of 5 O-line positions.

While we needed a play maker on offense, we also needed to replace Julian Peterson on defense, and an OLB to play in the 3-4 defense.

No wonder McCloughan says we have to build throught the draft. His track record with FA is not very good.

Amen to that Ronnie. The thot processes look like they were jumbled, as in draft #1 player in draft = QB situation is settled. Move on. Don't even think about protecting your QB, your #1 pick. Then out of left field we sign Nate for 80 mil or 67 mil or hell, i don't know how much, and all pro linemen were available over 3 yrs, who included Dielman OG (SD), Hutchinson OT(Vikes), and last yr Faneca Pitts(OG to ?NYJ i think), and we NEVER showed or had any interest in ANY of them. Ye gads, that is a GM who shouldn't be. Our line was as porous as ever, we were getting our bottoms spanked, or rather, our QBs killed, and it never occurred to scot to FA or draft OL , with exception of staley as 2nd pick in 1st rd. Honestly, i wish we would have taken 2 OLs then, but we "had" to have a combine busting TE , vernon. (think i got my yrs right). Scot had a good first rd draft that yr, but that was really his only one in my opinion. I realize the fan base for VD, and i am one too, but i still would rather have had one of the top 2or 3 OLs instead of VD.

Mentioned elsewhere, is scot's poor choices in later rds. Morgan was a good pick and jHill also, but over the 5 yrs we stunk on late rd picks. I don't think noln ever got the fact that this is cap football, and you draft a guy, you better play him. No longer do you draft someone to bring along, and hope he gets there. Today, you have to make your drafts count. We didn't and are now in our 7th losing season, with a chance to make it an 8-8 season against the feckless rams.

As for bigMike and drafts, he shouldn't be castigated for draft picks, when he has had no experience as a OC or DC, and is still learning the game. This basically is all on scot, and he has proven he is not up to it. It is in another thread, but this just reinforces (to me anyway) why we have to have an experienced HOFO, who has done all this before, and understands. Ron Wolf is said to be looking to get back in the game, and can you imagine this team if he were to come here? Problem is scot thinks he is up to it (and isn't), owner's kid doesn't have a clue, and HC is still trying to figure out why he wasn't promoted to asst DC or DC (at most) instead of HC. It is impossible to go from being a one position coach(LB coach) and get promoted way over your head, and then expect to HC like a guy with yrs of experience. It just doesn't work that way.

Also, scot can see the OL. He must surely have thot "Why is Foerster's OL not cutting the mustard?". Yet he didn't. I know what jedi jed said. But two things really should go at end of season...scot and foerster. Unfortunately silver spoon jedi isn't going to fire his friend and mentor. That is a fine how do you do. It just sets us back another yr.