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FL9er
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Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by FL9er:
Well, I was hoping for some constructive discussion, but that didn't happen.
You guys are frustrated, hell I am, but listen to yourselves. Simply saying "Yorkies Suck. Dorkies. Dorks, etc." is incredibly lame and if actually believe that's a coherent, intelligent thought when you hit "post this message," then I worry about your well-being.
The 49ers are still paying for their mistake of firing Steve Mariucci. The Yorks are pretty hands-off owners (but they provide the people in charge what they need), that has been established. They trusted BILL WALSH's hand-picked guy Terry Donahue, and he was a colossal failure, which is why he was let go.
But the point remains, since Mooch was let go, it has been 3 coaching failures in a row (assuming Sing doesn't learn from his mistakes). They should NOT be in charge of hiring the next coach. Is Baalke ready to assume that responsibility (he's a lot like McCloughan in that he's better in running the personnel side of things rather than the whole show)?
Jed would greatly benefit from hiring somebody with football experience to be the team president instead of him (which won't happen) as he transitions as the acting owner and is able to concentrate on the stadium project. He has too much on his plate and he's inexperienced.
The Chiefs did that when Clark Hunt went out and got Scott Pioli, hired experienced coordinators to help a 1st time coach (Todd Haley) and they are further along than the Niners. Hopefully Jed sees this.
Also to counter, everyone is afraid of a 1st time [insert position]. Arthur Blank hired a rookie GM, a rookie HC, who drafted a rookie QB and look at the Falcons. The difference between the two teams is that they've hit on their QB and the 49ers missed badly.
There is a major difference. Blank hired a guy who had front office experience working with Pioli and Belichik with the Pats. They hired a defensive coordinator that had years of experience coaching x's and o's, and had a successful defense in the years leading up to the hire. They also were smart enough to hire a coach and gm and not let a rookie coach run the whole show. That's what you call a smart, and quality ownership. That's why they drafted the correct qb. Let's take a look at how terrible management does it. The Yorks hire Nolan a defensive coordinator with a 50/50 background of success with his units. Who Ravens players were happy to get rid of. Then they give him full control which was the downfall of the last 6 years. If the Yorks had any real football smarts at least they would have just made Nolan head coach and not let him have control over personnel. That's the big difference between Arthur Blank(he isn't perfect Patrino was a bad hire, but he did pass on Singletary), and the Yorks. That's good management vs bad management at it's finest. Nolan was clearly in over his head. Thus the Niners draft the wrong qb(should've been Rodgers), and thus 6 years later the team still is losing regardless of the talent on the team. Then on top of that they feel that Nolan isn't cutting it and they hire his clone in Singletary. Talent has increased but the wins haven't. That falls on a bad front office who hires bad coaches that leads talented players nowhere. It's not that a rookie head coach can't be successful it's that a smart front office sets him up to succeed by putting good football guys around him.
Exactly, thanks for proving my point. You're willing to give Blank the benefit of the doubt for his mistakes (Vick, Mora, McKay as GM, Petrino), but not Jed who has only been in his position for a yr and a half. Mike Nolan is a good DC. Scot McCloughan came from the Ron Wolf/Ted Thompson scouting tree. They didn't work out. That doesn't mean the Yorks didn't have the forsight to hire people from a successful organization.
[ Edited by FL9er on Sep 30, 2010 at 11:09 AM ]
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BETTERDAYZ9ERS
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- Posts: 3,078
i would take out the /Management out of the title. We have no management. We do everything on the fly
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Baldie
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Problem is you have owners who aren't passionate about the game in the first place. They were pretty much given the team because of the issue Eddie had. The Yorks run the team for several years not putting 100% effort into it because they have other things in their life they have to manage. Then they hand the team off to their son, Jed, who has no experience whatsoever running an NFL franchise and know what it takes to be successful. He may have had success in other aspects of business but with a franchise your dealing with not only the business aspect but also you have the players and fans riding on you to be successful. In my opinion Jed, the Yorks for that matter, didn't have the passion/motiviation do whats best for the team. No once have I heard Jed letting the fans know, everything will be turned around. The team is doing bad so he runs into hiding. What kind of owner is that? Eddie was the true example of an NFL owner as is owners like Robert Kraft (NE) or the Saints owner. A successful owner attracts players and coaches from all over the league. We were lucky to draft the talent we have now, but you can also notice we don't have probowl players wanting to come to our team (IE. Patriots, which remind me now of the 49ers glory days)
A true passionate owner will do what it takes to get the right people in place and I just don't see that with the Yorks. I read somewhere that Eddie Jr was interested in coming back to the NFL....could you imagine if he came back to SF 10+ years later and brought the niners back to glory???? I can tell you if he did, all players and coaches would want to come here.
[ Edited by Baldie on Sep 30, 2010 at 12:31 PM ]
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pasodoc9er
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First thing is re read Blue falcon's comments because they are all right on the mark. Jed made a mistake, a huge one with BMbigmike. He fixed half of it by shedding JR, and just maybe MJ can help get things going in right direction. But anybody who saw the KC game( i am assuming the entire WZ), saw us get eaten alive...for the second time in 2 weeks, on screens. Where does that point to? HC, pure and simple. So whereby BM may not shine on OC calls, he sure does lousy on DC calls. And my money is that BMs fingerprints are or were all over every OC and DC call. They actually paralleled each other in degrees of "awfulness".
Ok, so jed screwed up. Fixed half of it and now needs to fix other half. But i think this thread is "so where do we go from BM", (also how soon...i can see no point in keeping a guy 15 + yrs out of date on as HC). What do we do? Well, first get rid of problem, BM. Then either have baalke instruct manusky to call DC plays by himself( and we would find out how good or bad he is), and have MJ do the same. No interference from a HC who doesn't know how to HC.
Meanwhile, get baalke to see if a Dungy could show mercy on us and come in for rest of yr only,
or ask Gruden for remainder of yr to do same thing as a trial run to see if he fits...assuming he would take the gig. After that, regardless of who we have to run the team, look for the next Payton , Bellichek, Parcells, in the ranks of OCs and asst OCs of all the above teams, plus others that are coming on. BLue falcon has it right, and i have said since yrs back, HC HAS TO BE an OC...otherwise you lose them to HC elsewhere. We should never have a DC (or worse a LB coach) as HC.
So that is talent pool i would have baalke looking at, the up and coming successful OCs who have hot shot asst OCs. Getting jed out of the picture until this team is set is absolutely essential. No animosity intended but he is just a kid, and altho better than Dad, that ain't good enough. Is baalke the one to do this? I dunno, but if he can judge OC talent like he can judge football talent, the man gets my vote.
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SanDiego49er
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- Posts: 47,923
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Classic York Family.
1) Panic.
2) Reactionary firing.
3) Promote from within an inexperienced person to "interim"...whatever...fill in blank...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director etc.).
4) In the offseason say so and so has earned the permanent full time position of...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director).
5) Promise new found hope and change and a better future.
6) Have no proactive long term plan.
7) Cross your fingers and hope and pray for the best.
8) If this doesn't work out go back to #1 and repeat cycle over and over again.
You can't get better like this.
Weird that this has happened just once since the Yorks have had full control of the franchise. Aside from Scot McCloughan's abrupt resignation two weeks before the draft, you really don't have much of a case. I think we can all agree that hiring a new General Manager two weeks before the draft would have been a horrible move.
You must be a new 49ers fan. I'll help you out.
2002 - Fired Steve Mariucci, hired Dennis Erickson from Oregon State.
2005 - Fired Dennis Erickson, hired Mike Nolan from Baltimore Ravens.
2005 - Fired Terry Donahue, hired Scot McCloughan from Seattle Seahawks.
2008 - Fired Mike Nolan, hired Mike Singletary from within.
2010 - Scot McCloughan resigns, promoted Trent Baalke to Vice President of Player Personnel.
I'll help you out...
1) Nolan fired in panic mode. Inexperienced sing hired from within to interim HC.
2) McCloughan ousted in panic mode. Inexperienced Trent Baalke hired from within to interim VP of Player Personnel. Not even GM.
3) Raye fired in panic mode. Inexperienced Mike Johnson hired from within to be interim OC.
Where are you gettting that this happened once? Are you paying attention? You must be a new 49ers fan...
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mr2324jgf
- Member
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- Posts: 608
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Classic York Family.
1) Panic.
2) Reactionary firing.
3) Promote from within an inexperienced person to "interim"...whatever...fill in blank...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director etc.).
4) In the offseason say so and so has earned the permanent full time position of...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director).
5) Promise new found hope and change and a better future.
6) Have no proactive long term plan.
7) Cross your fingers and hope and pray for the best.
8) If this doesn't work out go back to #1 and repeat cycle over and over again.
You can't get better like this.
Weird that this has happened just once since the Yorks have had full control of the franchise. Aside from Scot McCloughan's abrupt resignation two weeks before the draft, you really don't have much of a case. I think we can all agree that hiring a new General Manager two weeks before the draft would have been a horrible move.
You must be a new 49ers fan. I'll help you out.
2002 - Fired Steve Mariucci, hired Dennis Erickson from Oregon State.
2005 - Fired Dennis Erickson, hired Mike Nolan from Baltimore Ravens.
2005 - Fired Terry Donahue, hired Scot McCloughan from Seattle Seahawks.
2008 - Fired Mike Nolan, hired Mike Singletary from within.
2010 - Scot McCloughan resigns, promoted Trent Baalke to Vice President of Player Personnel.
I'll help you out...
1) Nolan fired in panic mode. Inexperienced sing hired from within to interim HC.
2) McCloughan ousted in panic mode. Inexperienced Trent Baalke hired from within to interim VP of Player Personnel. Not even GM.
3) Raye fired in panic mode. Inexperienced Mike Johnson hired from within to be interim OC.
Where are you gettting that this happened once? Are you paying attention? You must be a new 49ers fan...
yea i'm a tad bothered we don't have a GM in place. Seems ... irresponsible. Considering what Scott Pioli has done with the chiefs... where is our Scott Pioli!?
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DonnieDarko
- Veteran
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- Posts: 62,491
Originally posted by 76Razor:
NHAP/Jed_York in 5...4...3..2..
lol i thought he was the same person
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DonnieDarko
- Veteran
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- Posts: 62,491
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Classic York Family.
1) Panic.
2) Reactionary firing.
3) Promote from within an inexperienced person to "interim"...whatever...fill in blank...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director etc.).
4) In the offseason say so and so has earned the permanent full time position of...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director).
5) Promise new found hope and change and a better future.
6) Have no proactive long term plan.
7) Cross your fingers and hope and pray for the best.
8) If this doesn't work out go back to #1 and repeat cycle over and over again.
You can't get better like this.
Weird that this has happened just once since the Yorks have had full control of the franchise. Aside from Scot McCloughan's abrupt resignation two weeks before the draft, you really don't have much of a case. I think we can all agree that hiring a new General Manager two weeks before the draft would have been a horrible move.
You must be a new 49ers fan. I'll help you out.
2002 - Fired Steve Mariucci, hired Dennis Erickson from Oregon State.
2005 - Fired Dennis Erickson, hired Mike Nolan from Baltimore Ravens.
2005 - Fired Terry Donahue, hired Scot McCloughan from Seattle Seahawks.
2008 - Fired Mike Nolan, hired Mike Singletary from within.
2010 - Scot McCloughan resigns, promoted Trent Baalke to Vice President of Player Personnel.
I'll help you out...
1) Nolan fired in panic mode. Inexperienced sing hired from within to interim HC.
2) McCloughan ousted in panic mode. Inexperienced Trent Baalke hired from within to interim VP of Player Personnel. Not even GM.
3) Raye fired in panic mode. Inexperienced Mike Johnson hired from within to be interim OC.
Where are you gettting that this happened once? Are you paying attention? You must be a new 49ers fan...
Baalke's draft>>mcclueless'
can't argue that
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SanDiego49er
- Veteran
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- Posts: 47,923
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Classic York Family.
1) Panic.
2) Reactionary firing.
3) Promote from within an inexperienced person to "interim"...whatever...fill in blank...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director etc.).
4) In the offseason say so and so has earned the permanent full time position of...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director).
5) Promise new found hope and change and a better future.
6) Have no proactive long term plan.
7) Cross your fingers and hope and pray for the best.
8) If this doesn't work out go back to #1 and repeat cycle over and over again.
You can't get better like this.
Weird that this has happened just once since the Yorks have had full control of the franchise. Aside from Scot McCloughan's abrupt resignation two weeks before the draft, you really don't have much of a case. I think we can all agree that hiring a new General Manager two weeks before the draft would have been a horrible move.
You must be a new 49ers fan. I'll help you out.
2002 - Fired Steve Mariucci, hired Dennis Erickson from Oregon State.
2005 - Fired Dennis Erickson, hired Mike Nolan from Baltimore Ravens.
2005 - Fired Terry Donahue, hired Scot McCloughan from Seattle Seahawks.
2008 - Fired Mike Nolan, hired Mike Singletary from within.
2010 - Scot McCloughan resigns, promoted Trent Baalke to Vice President of Player Personnel.
I'll help you out...
1) Nolan fired in panic mode. Inexperienced sing hired from within to interim HC.
2) McCloughan ousted in panic mode. Inexperienced Trent Baalke hired from within to interim VP of Player Personnel. Not even GM.
3) Raye fired in panic mode. Inexperienced Mike Johnson hired from within to be interim OC.
Where are you gettting that this happened once? Are you paying attention? You must be a new 49ers fan...
Baalke's draft>>mcclueless'
can't argue that
Yes it was but that's not saying much. And if he was so great why was he under McClueless for so long?
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DonnieDarko
- Veteran
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- Posts: 62,491
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Classic York Family.
1) Panic.
2) Reactionary firing.
3) Promote from within an inexperienced person to "interim"...whatever...fill in blank...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director etc.).
4) In the offseason say so and so has earned the permanent full time position of...(HC, OC, DC, GM, Player personnel director).
5) Promise new found hope and change and a better future.
6) Have no proactive long term plan.
7) Cross your fingers and hope and pray for the best.
8) If this doesn't work out go back to #1 and repeat cycle over and over again.
You can't get better like this.
Weird that this has happened just once since the Yorks have had full control of the franchise. Aside from Scot McCloughan's abrupt resignation two weeks before the draft, you really don't have much of a case. I think we can all agree that hiring a new General Manager two weeks before the draft would have been a horrible move.
You must be a new 49ers fan. I'll help you out.
2002 - Fired Steve Mariucci, hired Dennis Erickson from Oregon State.
2005 - Fired Dennis Erickson, hired Mike Nolan from Baltimore Ravens.
2005 - Fired Terry Donahue, hired Scot McCloughan from Seattle Seahawks.
2008 - Fired Mike Nolan, hired Mike Singletary from within.
2010 - Scot McCloughan resigns, promoted Trent Baalke to Vice President of Player Personnel.
I'll help you out...
1) Nolan fired in panic mode. Inexperienced sing hired from within to interim HC.
2) McCloughan ousted in panic mode. Inexperienced Trent Baalke hired from within to interim VP of Player Personnel. Not even GM.
3) Raye fired in panic mode. Inexperienced Mike Johnson hired from within to be interim OC.
Where are you gettting that this happened once? Are you paying attention? You must be a new 49ers fan...
Baalke's draft>>mcclueless'
can't argue that
Yes it was but that's not saying much. And if he was so great why was he under McClueless for so long?
cuz the yorks are dumb? idk, i don't have the answers lol
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CrAnKD4TCRabTree
- Member
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- Posts: 868
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by kidash:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
They suck and we will continue to suck because of them.
I was just about to post "San Diego, take it easy on this thread!" buit too late for that..
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It doesn't matter what HC's, GM's, player personnel directors, OC's, DC's or players we change. The SUCK starts at the top.
What if we had Bill Parcells as our HC, Bill Belicheck as our OC, and Rex Ryan as our DC?