For the past 3 years, our team has followed one pattern: We win a few in the beginning, have a losing streak in the middle, and win a few at the end when it doesnt matter.
Why is this happening? It is so frustrating to see our team play so well at the end of the year, when it is too late. Why are we losing all those games in the middle of the season!?
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Why do we always have a losing streak in the middle of the year?
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Dec 14, 2009 at 11:47 PM
- PatrickWillisHOF
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,961
Dec 14, 2009 at 11:53 PM
- WillistheWall
- Veteran
- Posts: 22,848
Lack of continuity. We always have new coaches who always make changes, whether it's a coordinator or it's a HC. That's my opinion anyway. When JTO won the job and then got figured out and we gave him too long of a leash, then Hill starts playing and kept the TOs down and we won. But it didn't take till Nolan was fired that we changed. Or this year when defenses realizes Shaun couldn't hit the long throws in this offense or fit the ball into tight windows, and we lost a few games, then Smith didn't have the chemistry and it took a few games, then we got injured with Pashos and Staley, or when we cut our punt returner and then realize he was an upgrade over other guys on the team because atleast he could catch the ball. Crabtree not being in camp hurt as far as we probably could've done more stuff when he got here if he had been more experienced, and it kept Bruce on the field a few more weeks.
I think that's the main thing, lack of continuity, always making changes and we don't get chemistry that our players can fall back on when other teams adjust.
I think that's the main thing, lack of continuity, always making changes and we don't get chemistry that our players can fall back on when other teams adjust.
Dec 14, 2009 at 11:59 PM
- ginseng1000
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,146
another theory...
Our opponents think the niners suck....we surprise them with a few games in the beginning.
Then teams start to take us seriously and prepare hard for us...we start losing.
When we are out of the playoff hunt teams write us off and not show up....so we win a few games...
[ Edited by ginseng1000 on Dec 15, 2009 at 00:01:38 ]
Our opponents think the niners suck....we surprise them with a few games in the beginning.
Then teams start to take us seriously and prepare hard for us...we start losing.
When we are out of the playoff hunt teams write us off and not show up....so we win a few games...
[ Edited by ginseng1000 on Dec 15, 2009 at 00:01:38 ]
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:00 AM
- DertyDonahue
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,635
Because we aren't a playoff-caliber team yet. We lack the consistency and as WillistheWall said "continuity". Or as the MNF crew was talking about after the game, the reason why we are middle of the pack is because we don't have a franchise QB. That Scorpions song "Winds of Change" just popped in my head. We will find out about Alex Smith soon enough.
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:03 AM
- Winners
- Member
- Posts: 371
Why are you complaining? We just swept the Cardinals this year, last years NFC Champions. We are 1 game away from being 5-1 in the division! We are still in the playoff race (tell me St Louis wouldn't LOVE to spoil the Cardinals run) as long as we win out and the Cardinals lose two games.
Yet you want to talk about the past and a different team? Lighten up Francis, and enjoy a win. Especially if they don't seem to happen often enough.
Yet you want to talk about the past and a different team? Lighten up Francis, and enjoy a win. Especially if they don't seem to happen often enough.
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:05 AM
- NinerFan1977
- Member
- Posts: 396
Member Milestone:
This is post number 300 for NinerFan1977.
Originally posted by Winners:
Why are you complaining? We just swept the Cardinals this year, last years NFC Champions. We are 1 game away from being 5-1 in the division! We are still in the playoff race (tell me St Louis wouldn't LOVE to spoil the Cardinals run) as long as we win out and the Cardinals lose two games.
Yet you want to talk about the past and a different team? Lighten up Francis, and enjoy a win. Especially if they don't seem to happen often enough.
At Philly Dont Make Me Laugh
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:06 AM
- ginseng1000
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,146
Originally posted by DertyDonahue:
Because we aren't a playoff-caliber team yet. We lack the consistency and as WillistheWall said "continuity". Or as the MNF crew was talking about after the game, the reason why we are middle of the pack is because we don't have a franchise QB. That Scorpions song "Winds of Change" just popped in my head. We will find out about Alex Smith soon enough.
sigh....the reality is that even the analyst aren't sold on Alex. And these analyst are past players and coaches who have been in the league...
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:07 AM
- Winners
- Member
- Posts: 371
Originally posted by NinerFan1977:Originally posted by Winners:
Why are you complaining? We just swept the Cardinals this year, last years NFC Champions. We are 1 game away from being 5-1 in the division! We are still in the playoff race (tell me St Louis wouldn't LOVE to spoil the Cardinals run) as long as we win out and the Cardinals lose two games.
Yet you want to talk about the past and a different team? Lighten up Francis, and enjoy a win. Especially if they don't seem to happen often enough.
At Philly Dont Make Me Laugh
The Raiders beat Philly, are they better than the 49ers? What fun is it to be a hater? The Chargers were down 3 games with 3 games left last year and they went to the playoffs. I'd rather enjoy the win and some hope then just hate my life all season like some of you.
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:13 AM
- BrianGO
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,300
Because we go into the year fresh and exited. The players are super fired up. The defense wins a couple of games for us early in the year single handedly.
Because of the wins, we think that having a horrible offense is OK, as long as the defense keeps playing with such fire.
But then teams watch some film, and realize that they can exploit us with screens and short passes, our offense stays the same, and we lose lose lose.
At the end of a season, the defense plays loose and exited again, because there is nothing to lose, while the opposing teams are either bad, or tense and nervous (like the Cardinals).
If we are fooled into believing that our offense won the game for us tonight, we will never be able to be a good team in this league.
Our defense forced SEVEN turnovers. Can you imagine what the Eagles, or Cowboys, or Colts, or Cardinals, or Giants, or basically any team except the worst ten, would have done if they had forced SEVEN turnovers?
We should have DESTROYED the Cardinals.
Anyhow, Smith's spread offense and Gore's I-Form attack can't coexist together.
Smith is bad as a drop-back passer, pure and simple. He NEEDS the spread offense, otherwise forget it. One of them has to go, and its probably going to be Smith. Perhaps Nate Davis or a draft pick can drop back in the pocket.
We can't expect our defense to single-handedly win every game for us. Otherwise, if we go into next year expecting to win 10 games like this, unfortunately, all we will find is yet another "mysterious" disappointing season.
Because of the wins, we think that having a horrible offense is OK, as long as the defense keeps playing with such fire.
But then teams watch some film, and realize that they can exploit us with screens and short passes, our offense stays the same, and we lose lose lose.
At the end of a season, the defense plays loose and exited again, because there is nothing to lose, while the opposing teams are either bad, or tense and nervous (like the Cardinals).
If we are fooled into believing that our offense won the game for us tonight, we will never be able to be a good team in this league.
Our defense forced SEVEN turnovers. Can you imagine what the Eagles, or Cowboys, or Colts, or Cardinals, or Giants, or basically any team except the worst ten, would have done if they had forced SEVEN turnovers?
We should have DESTROYED the Cardinals.
Anyhow, Smith's spread offense and Gore's I-Form attack can't coexist together.
Smith is bad as a drop-back passer, pure and simple. He NEEDS the spread offense, otherwise forget it. One of them has to go, and its probably going to be Smith. Perhaps Nate Davis or a draft pick can drop back in the pocket.
We can't expect our defense to single-handedly win every game for us. Otherwise, if we go into next year expecting to win 10 games like this, unfortunately, all we will find is yet another "mysterious" disappointing season.
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:27 AM
- BrianGO
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,300
Originally posted by Winners:
Why are you complaining? We just swept the Cardinals this year, last years NFC Champions. We are 1 game away from being 5-1 in the division! We are still in the playoff race (tell me St Louis wouldn't LOVE to spoil the Cardinals run) as long as we win out and the Cardinals lose two games.
Yet you want to talk about the past and a different team? Lighten up Francis, and enjoy a win. Especially if they don't seem to happen often enough.
Because having such a seemingly great win only serves as a shot of heroin to an otherwise disparaging season and prospects for the future.
Sleeping in the streets? "Boom", take a shot of heroin and everything is fine again in the immediate future.
I LOVED watching us soundly beat the Cardinals on Monday Night Football. But a good team would have DESTROYED them. Seven turnovers? We can only put up 24 points? Seven of which came as we marched down the field in our shotgun, spread-out, two-minute offense.
Our defense will not force 7 turnovers every game, and we needed almost all of them to win that game.
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:29 AM
- TheGoldDiggerrrr
- Veteran
- Posts: 5,073
Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
For the past 3 years, our team has followed one pattern: We win a few in the beginning, have a losing streak in the middle, and win a few at the end when it doesnt matter.
Why is this happening? It is so frustrating to see our team play so well at the end of the year, when it is too late. Why are we losing all those games in the middle of the season!?
Is it better then losing in December like the cowboys!
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:40 AM
- BrianGO
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,300
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
For the past 3 years, our team has followed one pattern: We win a few in the beginning, have a losing streak in the middle, and win a few at the end when it doesnt matter.
Why is this happening? It is so frustrating to see our team play so well at the end of the year, when it is too late. Why are we losing all those games in the middle of the season!?
Is it better then losing in December like the cowboys!
That may be true, but I'd rather see the 49ers win then the Cowboy's lose. Although both of those events are very satisfying.
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:51 AM
- WillistheWall
- Veteran
- Posts: 22,848
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Because we go into the year fresh and exited. The players are super fired up. The defense wins a couple of games for us early in the year single handedly.
Because of the wins, we think that having a horrible offense is OK, as long as the defense keeps playing with such fire.
But then teams watch some film, and realize that they can exploit us with screens and short passes, our offense stays the same, and we lose lose lose.
At the end of a season, the defense plays loose and exited again, because there is nothing to lose, while the opposing teams are either bad, or tense and nervous (like the Cardinals).
If we are fooled into believing that our offense won the game for us tonight, we will never be able to be a good team in this league.
Our defense forced SEVEN turnovers. Can you imagine what the Eagles, or Cowboys, or Colts, or Cardinals, or Giants, or basically any team except the worst ten, would have done if they had forced SEVEN turnovers?
We should have DESTROYED the Cardinals.
Anyhow, Smith's spread offense and Gore's I-Form attack can't coexist together.
Smith is bad as a drop-back passer, pure and simple. He NEEDS the spread offense, otherwise forget it. One of them has to go, and its probably going to be Smith. Perhaps Nate Davis or a draft pick can drop back in the pocket.
We can't expect our defense to single-handedly win every game for us. Otherwise, if we go into next year expecting to win 10 games like this, unfortunately, all we will find is yet another "mysterious" disappointing season.
Well the fact remains that QBs have a longer life span than running backs and you can't really build around a running back for more than a few years. To be honest I disagree with you. I think it's GREAT that we can throw a lot of different looks at teams. We ran the ball out of the shotgun a few times tonight, and got positive plays out of it. I think one of those TDs was Alex from under center, and I know both in Seattle were. The fact of the matter is the more you can do, the better you are, and there's more looks they have to prepare for. The Saints go in the I, sometimes they're in the gun, they use some play action, etc. The biggest thing IMO is, we didn't practice all these plays in TC. We didn't have all these players in TC. Give them an offseason to get better and things will get better.
Did Smith play like crap tonight? For the most part yeah, compared to what he did in Seattle. But in Seattle both TDs were from under center. And when you can say he played like crap even though he threw 2 TDs, that's pretty good. The passer rating sucked. But he converted multiple third downs tonight, and he capitalized when we were in the redzone. The Dockett INT was a great play on Dockett's part, Smith got the ball pretty high for the most part and Dockett jumped up pretty damn high. He's a good athlete. The other INT was a crappy throw, a bad play call IMO, and a worse decision. But that's 1 play. There were a few overthrows, here and there. But AZ made Favre look like crap too. They made him look worse than Alex IIRC. They made Manning look poorly with 3 INTs. They have a good D, with a good secondary. Bryant McFadden won a superbowl with the steelers last year, and DRC was a first round pick who is pretty big and athletic. Rolle wasn't a great corner but he's a pretty good FS that can cover. Wilson makes a lot of plays. They have a good defense. They have prior to this game, 34 sacks and 26 forced turnovers. So that Alex got 2 TDs when we needed them, and converted half of the 3rd downs, and that's on a defense that holds teams to converting only 33% of 3rd downs, that's pretty good.
Dec 15, 2009 at 12:59 AM
- GhostofFredDean74
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 30,082
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Because we go into the year fresh and exited. The players are super fired up. The defense wins a couple of games for us early in the year single handedly.
Because of the wins, we think that having a horrible offense is OK, as long as the defense keeps playing with such fire.
But then teams watch some film, and realize that they can exploit us with screens and short passes, our offense stays the same, and we lose lose lose.
At the end of a season, the defense plays loose and exited again, because there is nothing to lose, while the opposing teams are either bad, or tense and nervous (like the Cardinals).
If we are fooled into believing that our offense won the game for us tonight, we will never be able to be a good team in this league.
Our defense forced SEVEN turnovers. Can you imagine what the Eagles, or Cowboys, or Colts, or Cardinals, or Giants, or basically any team except the worst ten, would have done if they had forced SEVEN turnovers?
We should have DESTROYED the Cardinals.
Anyhow, Smith's spread offense and Gore's I-Form attack can't coexist together.
Smith is bad as a drop-back passer, pure and simple. He NEEDS the spread offense, otherwise forget it. One of them has to go, and its probably going to be Smith. Perhaps Nate Davis or a draft pick can drop back in the pocket.
We can't expect our defense to single-handedly win every game for us. Otherwise, if we go into next year expecting to win 10 games like this, unfortunately, all we will find is yet another "mysterious" disappointing season.
Did we watch the same game tonight? I mean, we DID destroy the Cardinals tonight. It may not have been a blow-out on the scoreboard, but we handled them in just about every phase of the game. Alex had a mediocre night, but Gore ran wild on these guys, so I really don't get where you're coming from with this.
Yes, the defense came up big and really won the game. But you don't seem to be looking at the bigger picture. They've just started to gel as an offense, and they're still looking for an identity...in the meantime, they're actually moving the chains pretty well, getting nice production from Smith and figured out a way to get Gore involved too.
With regards to next year:
~With a full training camp with Smith as the clear starter
~Crabtree and Morgan as the starting wideouts from day 1
~Incorporating Brandon Jones' deep speed into the game plan
~Davis coming off a pro bowl season
~Walker seeing more time with the offense
~Staley back at LT
~A likely 1st rounder at RT
~Rachal coming off his first full year as a starter
~Being able to use Frank in a number of different ways (spread or I)
~Maybe even picking up a speed back in the draft like Spiller or Best to compliment Gore
...this offense has a chance to be VERY, VERY good next year.
[ Edited by GoFD74 on Dec 15, 2009 at 01:07:50 ]
Dec 15, 2009 at 1:20 AM
- BrianGO
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,300
Originally posted by WillistheWall:Originally posted by BrianGO:
Because we go into the year fresh and exited. The players are super fired up. The defense wins a couple of games for us early in the year single handedly.
Because of the wins, we think that having a horrible offense is OK, as long as the defense keeps playing with such fire.
But then teams watch some film, and realize that they can exploit us with screens and short passes, our offense stays the same, and we lose lose lose.
At the end of a season, the defense plays loose and exited again, because there is nothing to lose, while the opposing teams are either bad, or tense and nervous (like the Cardinals).
If we are fooled into believing that our offense won the game for us tonight, we will never be able to be a good team in this league.
Our defense forced SEVEN turnovers. Can you imagine what the Eagles, or Cowboys, or Colts, or Cardinals, or Giants, or basically any team except the worst ten, would have done if they had forced SEVEN turnovers?
We should have DESTROYED the Cardinals.
Anyhow, Smith's spread offense and Gore's I-Form attack can't coexist together.
Smith is bad as a drop-back passer, pure and simple. He NEEDS the spread offense, otherwise forget it. One of them has to go, and its probably going to be Smith. Perhaps Nate Davis or a draft pick can drop back in the pocket.
We can't expect our defense to single-handedly win every game for us. Otherwise, if we go into next year expecting to win 10 games like this, unfortunately, all we will find is yet another "mysterious" disappointing season.
Well the fact remains that QBs have a longer life span than running backs and you can't really build around a running back for more than a few years. To be honest I disagree with you. I think it's GREAT that we can throw a lot of different looks at teams. We ran the ball out of the shotgun a few times tonight, and got positive plays out of it. I think one of those TDs was Alex from under center, and I know both in Seattle were. The fact of the matter is the more you can do, the better you are, and there's more looks they have to prepare for. The Saints go in the I, sometimes they're in the gun, they use some play action, etc. The biggest thing IMO is, we didn't practice all these plays in TC. We didn't have all these players in TC. Give them an offseason to get better and things will get better.
Did Smith play like crap tonight? For the most part yeah, compared to what he did in Seattle. But in Seattle both TDs were from under center. And when you can say he played like crap even though he threw 2 TDs, that's pretty good. The passer rating sucked. But he converted multiple third downs tonight, and he capitalized when we were in the redzone. The Dockett INT was a great play on Dockett's part, Smith got the ball pretty high for the most part and Dockett jumped up pretty damn high. He's a good athlete. The other INT was a crappy throw, a bad play call IMO, and a worse decision. But that's 1 play. There were a few overthrows, here and there. But AZ made Favre look like crap too. They made him look worse than Alex IIRC. They made Manning look poorly with 3 INTs. They have a good D, with a good secondary. Bryant McFadden won a superbowl with the steelers last year, and DRC was a first round pick who is pretty big and athletic. Rolle wasn't a great corner but he's a pretty good FS that can cover. Wilson makes a lot of plays. They have a good defense. They have prior to this game, 34 sacks and 26 forced turnovers. So that Alex got 2 TDs when we needed them, and converted half of the 3rd downs, and that's on a defense that holds teams to converting only 33% of 3rd downs, that's pretty good.
You make some good points, the Cardinals have a good secondary, and its true that we didn't practice those plays in training camp.
But I just don't see it from Smith when he drops back to pass, its just not there. He makes some good plays at times when dropping back, but he makes up for it with bad plays.
In the shotgun he can drive down the field and score and sometimes actually make it look EASY. It never looks easy for him when he is dropping back.
Doing many different things is great, but making a defense unsure of what you are doing in a given formation is the most important thing.
We go into I-Form, history shows that you had better stop Frank Gore, Alex Smith should not be a problem.
We go into shotgun, history shows that you had better do something about Alex Smith, Frank Gore should not be a problem.
When a defense can prepare like that, it gives them an advantage.
If Smith can't drop back in the pocket and play well consistently in that formation, then its simply not going to work for us. Every game will be a struggle and we will have to depend on our defense to play outstanding.
Our defense played OUTSTANDING against Arizona, in both games.
Let's put it this way, another great defensive player, is not going to solve the 49ers problems.
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