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2 glaring team needs

Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

I think coffee will be ok, he was/is a rookie. He was ok in the preseason when our Oline pretended like it could block, imagine how him and gore would run if our oline was improved??

Robinson needs to be cut.

Our first round should be all Oline, even if those big name safeteys are sitting there. Oline is killing us, then we need some dline help/pass rush help. Then they can draft more db's.


Fix the trenches, and everyone else gets "better"

You are SOOO right! U know what you are talking about my man!!!
But I do disagree about MRob. He is a very good STP
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
1. OT
2. DB

Those are the two most glaring needs by far and it is in that order that I want to see us target player's in the draft.

I think the pass rush is at a level at which we don't need to splurge a first round pick on an OLB. Maybe we can target an OLB in the 2nd round.

-9fA

When is OL not going to be on a 'need' list anymore? I swear I have seen that on these kinds of lists for 10 years now.
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I support your theory about the CB being a much bigger need than the pass rush. By sight CB seem good, and pass rush seems bad, but by stats which is more fact than anything its the opposite. 49ers' ranked 7th (10% coming from secondary) in the NFL in Sacks before the week started, and hits on the QB is 71 which is the same amount as the 6th worst team in the NFL has allowed.

That being said there is no stat that support the CBs are doing a good job. The best stat is interceptions 11, that ranks right in the middle of the league 18th (more than 25% by non secondary players) . Pass defended 47, which ranks 24th in the league, which tells me they aren't in position to make plays. This shows why the pass is ranked 26th overall in the league (secondary not doing there job) and the run is ranked 5th in the league (front seven doing there job) . The stats are clearly saying to me more often than not the secondary is in trouble more than the pass rush.

This simply isn't true, I'm sorry. 3rd down efficiency: Tied for 19th and dropping. We stop the run because teams know on 3rd they can pass because there's no pressure.

Dude you keep arguing as if the defense is split into two squads and play at different times. What the pass-rush does directly affects the secondary. There isn't anyone in football who will argue that a significant pass-rush doesn't dramatically impact the play of a secondary (see Giants 2007). The top PASSING defenses in the league have a bona fide, every-down, pass-rusher and some teams have TWO. Comparatively against most of those rosters, we have a better secondary - and even then those stats are skewed because some teams have the game wrapped up by the half, THEY DONT NEED TO PASS.

Here's what I mean:

Carolina statistically has a better pass defense than the Bengals. Are you saying that the Bengal corners aren't as good?

The Rams have a better statistical pass defense than the 49ers. You're just not going to get anyone in Ninertalk to believe the Rams have a better secondary than the 49ers right now - even with Clements injured. Even the Chiefs statistically have a better pass defense. Does this mean the KC corners/secondary is better? No.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

You just can't go the NFL.com, look up a stat or 2 or 3 stats and say conclusively say "our pass rush is fine" and "our secondary is terrible" without breaking sacks down by opponent and game situation.

I do know this: when the 49ers absolutely needed a sack or pressure to win the game or a turnover, pressure wasn't there - at the end - when we needed in every close game we lost except the Colts game.

The last minute heave from Brett Favre wasn't just Mark Roman, if I recall Smith whiffs on Favre which allows him to make the last second throw, etc. You have to evaluate pressure in game situations and when it's needed just as if we were evaluating a WR or an offense. (Again statistically, the Rams have a better offense but does that mean they have a absolute better offense).

[ Edited by NinerGM on Dec 13, 2009 at 21:50:40 ]
IMO, having a legit punt returner is more of a glaring need than DB.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

well Jonathan Stewart was also a 1st rounder with alot of talent. they only split because Williams came out of nowhere from possible bust-land to be elite. its unrealistic to expect us to find a Jonathan Stewart.

Coffee is a rookie, cut him some slack. Gore wasnt any better in his first season either.

Bro, Gore was way better his rookie season than Coffee has been so far.
  • Austin49erFan
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No one has mentioned this so I will.
I think we should trade both our first round picks for a top 3 pick, maybe even #1 and draft Ndamukong Suh.
Originally posted by Austin49erFan:
No one has mentioned this so I will.
I think we should trade both our first round picks for a top 3 pick, maybe even #1 and draft Ndamukong Suh.


No way dude. I'd rather have 2 early-mid round picks over the first pick.
Originally posted by AKfanster:
IMO, having a legit punt returner is more of a glaring need than DB.

I agree. But if we're talking draft picks, I'd rather use the 1st rounders on OL and DB. Still bent out of shape of the Kory Sheets release.
Originally posted by NinerGold39:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
IMO, having a legit punt returner is more of a glaring need than DB.

I agree. But if we're talking draft picks, I'd rather use the 1st rounders on OL and DB. Still bent out of shape of the Kory Sheets release.


Ya, either 1 OT and 1 DB OR use both picks on OL.
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I support your theory about the CB being a much bigger need than the pass rush. By sight CB seem good, and pass rush seems bad, but by stats which is more fact than anything its the opposite. 49ers' ranked 7th (10% coming from secondary) in the NFL in Sacks before the week started, and hits on the QB is 71 which is the same amount as the 6th worst team in the NFL has allowed.

That being said there is no stat that support the CBs are doing a good job. The best stat is interceptions 11, that ranks right in the middle of the league 18th (more than 25% by non secondary players) . Pass defended 47, which ranks 24th in the league, which tells me they aren't in position to make plays. This shows why the pass is ranked 26th overall in the league (secondary not doing there job) and the run is ranked 5th in the league (front seven doing there job) . The stats are clearly saying to me more often than not the secondary is in trouble more than the pass rush.

Look at the Giants SB, they won because the passrush upset Brady he had t throw it before he wanted, he did not have time to throw deep.

It's also easier for the secondary to defend the pass when the QB does not have time to throw the perfect pass.

The Vikings were not able to get to Warner so he had time and he picked them apart.

In week 1we did not gave Warner time and he made mistakes.
  • Austin49erFan
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Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I support your theory about the CB being a much bigger need than the pass rush. By sight CB seem good, and pass rush seems bad, but by stats which is more fact than anything its the opposite. 49ers' ranked 7th (10% coming from secondary) in the NFL in Sacks before the week started, and hits on the QB is 71 which is the same amount as the 6th worst team in the NFL has allowed.

That being said there is no stat that support the CBs are doing a good job. The best stat is interceptions 11, that ranks right in the middle of the league 18th (more than 25% by non secondary players) . Pass defended 47, which ranks 24th in the league, which tells me they aren't in position to make plays. This shows why the pass is ranked 26th overall in the league (secondary not doing there job) and the run is ranked 5th in the league (front seven doing there job) . The stats are clearly saying to me more often than not the secondary is in trouble more than the pass rush.

Look at the Giants SB, they won because the passrush upset Brady he had t throw it before he wanted, he did not have time to throw deep.

It's also easier for the secondary to defend the pass when the QB does not have time to throw the perfect pass.

The Vikings were not able to get to Warner so he had time and he picked them apart.

In week 1we did not gave Warner time and he made mistakes.

This is why drafting Ndamukong Suh is so important.
Originally posted by Austin49erFan:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I support your theory about the CB being a much bigger need than the pass rush. By sight CB seem good, and pass rush seems bad, but by stats which is more fact than anything its the opposite. 49ers' ranked 7th (10% coming from secondary) in the NFL in Sacks before the week started, and hits on the QB is 71 which is the same amount as the 6th worst team in the NFL has allowed.

That being said there is no stat that support the CBs are doing a good job. The best stat is interceptions 11, that ranks right in the middle of the league 18th (more than 25% by non secondary players) . Pass defended 47, which ranks 24th in the league, which tells me they aren't in position to make plays. This shows why the pass is ranked 26th overall in the league (secondary not doing there job) and the run is ranked 5th in the league (front seven doing there job) . The stats are clearly saying to me more often than not the secondary is in trouble more than the pass rush.

Look at the Giants SB, they won because the passrush upset Brady he had t throw it before he wanted, he did not have time to throw deep.

It's also easier for the secondary to defend the pass when the QB does not have time to throw the perfect pass.

The Vikings were not able to get to Warner so he had time and he picked them apart.

In week 1we did not gave Warner time and he made mistakes.

This is why drafting Ndamukong Suh is so important.

there is no way that Suh will fall to the 49ers.
  • Austin49erFan
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Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Austin49erFan:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I support your theory about the CB being a much bigger need than the pass rush. By sight CB seem good, and pass rush seems bad, but by stats which is more fact than anything its the opposite. 49ers' ranked 7th (10% coming from secondary) in the NFL in Sacks before the week started, and hits on the QB is 71 which is the same amount as the 6th worst team in the NFL has allowed.

That being said there is no stat that support the CBs are doing a good job. The best stat is interceptions 11, that ranks right in the middle of the league 18th (more than 25% by non secondary players) . Pass defended 47, which ranks 24th in the league, which tells me they aren't in position to make plays. This shows why the pass is ranked 26th overall in the league (secondary not doing there job) and the run is ranked 5th in the league (front seven doing there job) . The stats are clearly saying to me more often than not the secondary is in trouble more than the pass rush.

Look at the Giants SB, they won because the passrush upset Brady he had t throw it before he wanted, he did not have time to throw deep.

It's also easier for the secondary to defend the pass when the QB does not have time to throw the perfect pass.

The Vikings were not able to get to Warner so he had time and he picked them apart.

In week 1we did not gave Warner time and he made mistakes.

This is why drafting Ndamukong Suh is so important.

there is no way that Suh will fall to the 49ers.

I'll agree that he won't go as late as one of our two picks. I think he'll go before 7 picks and as early as 3. That's why I think we should trade up to top 3 pick.
We need OL and Josh Cribbs
Originally posted by elguapo:
agree OL but NOT DB (Clements is great, Spencer is great, Bly is good, Brown is average and that is 4 of the best cb in the nfl as a group) I would say PHI and NYJ are the only 2 teams with a better GROUP of cb's.

We need AN OL AND SAFETY.

we have drafted OL in the 1st and 2nd and nothing.....at least they turn out to be solid if not good to very good. But our picks.....???????????????????

It must be player abilities as well as coaching. I can't believe Baas, Rachal, Staley are all bad...with Staley being the only one considered to be above average or good. It's sad because i'm sure a lot of other 1st and 2nd rounders for OL don't have the best coaching but they turn out be be great even pro bowl.

It really sucks. I hope with our 1st 2 picks we get a safety and OT.



100% agree