2 glaring team needs

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

well Jonathan Stewart was also a 1st rounder with alot of talent. they only split because Williams came out of nowhere from possible bust-land to be elite. its unrealistic to expect us to find a Jonathan Stewart.

Coffee is a rookie, cut him some slack. Gore wasnt any better in his first season either.

You don't need to spend two 1st rounders to get talent at RB, for example Gore or Pierre Thomas or Marion Barber. I hope they pick up somebody good, but I wouldn't be upset if they did pick up a really really good KR/RB in the 1st to be the backup to Gore. I think that will help win some extra games with field position.

I may not be a football expert but even my eye can see that Coffee isn't going to do anything in the NFL. He isn't particularly strong, fast, or agile. He had some big games in preseason but the holes were huge. Gore just needs a little crease and he can take it all the way. I hope he develops but I'm not betting on it.

Our DBs aren't old...just the good ones. The list below shows how little we have invested in top flight DBs in the draft over the past few years.

Active Player/Age (Draft Rnd)
Bly 30 (2nd)
Brown 24 (5th)
Clements 30 (1st)
Goldson 25 (4th)
Hudson 27 (6th)
Roman 32 (2nd)
Smith, K 29 (3rd)
Smith, R 23 (3rd)
Spencer 27 (2nd)

Injured
Harris 37 (1st)
Taylor 24 (7th)

Time to invest!

With Clements coming back our CBs are good enough if we can get a dominate pass rush. Giants didn't have great CBs when they won the super bowl. Patriots had Samuels, but other than that they have very average CBs. Neither team had dominate free safeties.

Pass rush is king.

a stud offensive lineman and a pass rusher

[ Edited by dmax on Dec 13, 2009 at 19:38:05 ]

Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I support your theory about the CB being a much bigger need than the pass rush. By sight CB seem good, and pass rush seems bad, but by stats which is more fact than anything its the opposite. 49ers' ranked 7th (10% coming from secondary) in the NFL in Sacks before the week started, and hits on the QB is 71 which is the same amount as the 6th worst team in the NFL has allowed.

That being said there is no stat that support the CBs are doing a good job. The best stat is interceptions 11, that ranks right in the middle of the league 18th (more than 25% by non secondary players) . Pass defended 47, which ranks 24th in the league, which tells me they aren't in position to make plays. This shows why the pass is ranked 26th overall in the league (secondary not doing there job) and the run is ranked 5th in the league (front seven doing there job) . The stats are clearly saying to me more often than not the secondary is in trouble more than the pass rush.

[ Edited by tmg808 on Dec 13, 2009 at 19:42:22 ]

Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

Lewis is good but has injury issues Tarell Brown I'm not too sure about ....a ball hawk but maybe just a nickel?

[ Edited by Donnies9ers on Dec 13, 2009 at 20:13:24 ]

Originally posted by Donnies9ers:

Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I think we just draft the best player avaialable no matter what......at this point the team is building to be a winner we are clearly seeing players emerge from the teams past drafts and we just take who is there and plug them in where ever that may be.

Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

It would be nice to have a back up that can at least fill in for Frank. I mean if you look at the Titans they really didn't need to draft CJ and that worked out pretty damn well.

Originally posted by tmg808:

Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

I support your theory about the CB being a much bigger need than the pass rush. By sight CB seem good, and pass rush seems bad, but by stats which is more fact than anything its the opposite. 49ers' ranked 7th (10% coming from secondary) in the NFL in Sacks before the week started, and hits on the QB is 71 which is the same amount as the 6th worst team in the NFL has allowed.

That being said there is no stat that support the CBs are doing a good job. The best stat is interceptions 11, that ranks right in the middle of the league 18th (more than 25% by non secondary players) . Pass defended 47, which ranks 24th in the league, which tells me they aren't in position to make plays. This shows why the pass is ranked 26th overall in the league (secondary not doing there job) and the run is ranked 5th in the league (front seven doing there job) . The stats are clearly saying to me more often than not the secondary is in trouble more than the pass rush.

According to football outsiders a lot of pass yardage that we give up comes from the opposing #1 WR and RB positions which means the lbs and secondary both are giving it up.

[ Edited by Ronnie49Lott on Dec 13, 2009 at 22:41:47 ]

Originally posted by elguapo:
agree OL but NOT DB (Clements is great, Spencer is great, Bly is good, Brown is average and that is 4 of the best cb in the nfl as a group) I would say PHI and NYJ are the only 2 teams with a better GROUP of cb's.

We need AN OL AND SAFETY.

we have drafted OL in the 1st and 2nd and nothing.....at least they turn out to be solid if not good to very good. But our picks.....???????????????????

It must be player abilities as well as coaching. I can't believe Baas, Rachal, Staley are all bad...with Staley being the only one considered to be above average or good. It's sad because i'm sure a lot of other 1st and 2nd rounders for OL don't have the best coaching but they turn out be be great even pro bowl.

It really sucks. I hope with our 1st 2 picks we get a safety and OT.

what have you been watching are secondary is trash. were like 12th in the nfc alone against the pass. do i have to mention there's a afc as well.... were like 5th team in the nfc for sacks. clearly are passrush is better this year. so really we suck and should look for secondary help over passrush!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Our DBs aren't old...just the good ones. The list below shows how little we have invested in top flight DBs in the draft over the past few years.

Active Player/Age (Draft Rnd)
Bly 30 (2nd)
Brown 24 (5th)
Clements 30 (1st)
Goldson 25 (4th)
Hudson 27 (6th)
Roman 32 (2nd)
Smith, K 29 (3rd)
Smith, R 23 (3rd)
Spencer 27 (2nd)

Injured
Harris 37 (1st)
Taylor 24 (7th)

Time to invest!

Harris is 35 and was a 6th round pick. Bly is 32 now. But your point is valid. We haven't done a good job investing in the secondary. Most first rounders we've used on offense(VD, Alex, Crabtree, Staley), the ones we used on defense(Willis, Balmer, Lawson) have mostly been on the front 7. In the last 5+ years we haven't used a 1st rounder on a secondary player.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Our DBs aren't old...just the good ones. The list below shows how little we have invested in top flight DBs in the draft over the past few years.

Active Player/Age (Draft Rnd)
Bly 32 (2nd)
Brown 24 (5th)
Clements 30 (1st)
Goldson 25 (4th)
Hudson 27 (6th)
Roman 32 (2nd)
Smith, K 29 (3rd)
Smith, R 23 (3rd)
Spencer 27 (2nd)

Injured
Harris 35 (1st)
Taylor 24 (7th)

Time to invest!

Harris is 35 and was a 6th round pick. Bly is 32 now. But your point is valid. We haven't done a good job investing in the secondary. Most first rounders we've used on offense(VD, Alex, Crabtree, Staley), the ones we used on defense(Willis, Balmer, Lawson) have mostly been on the front 7. In the last 5+ years we haven't used a 1st rounder on a secondary player.

Thanks for the correction! You are right on the ages but Harris was drafted in the first round in 1996 (13th pick by Chicago). 9er website and others for reference.

Originally posted by unst4bl3:

Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

I think coffee will be ok, he was/is a rookie. He was ok in the preseason when our Oline pretended like it could block, imagine how him and gore would run if our oline was improved??

Robinson needs to be cut.

Our first round should be all Oline, even if those big name safeteys are sitting there. Oline is killing us, then we need some dline help/pass rush help. Then they can draft more db's.


Fix the trenches, and everyone else gets "better"

You are SOOO right! U know what you are talking about my man!!!
But I do disagree about MRob. He is a very good STP

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
1. OT
2. DB

Those are the two most glaring needs by far and it is in that order that I want to see us target player's in the draft.

I think the pass rush is at a level at which we don't need to splurge a first round pick on an OLB. Maybe we can target an OLB in the 2nd round.

-9fA

When is OL not going to be on a 'need' list anymore? I swear I have seen that on these kinds of lists for 10 years now.

IMO, having a legit punt returner is more of a glaring need than DB.