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2 glaring team needs

our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit. letting Smiley and Kosier leave also killed us.

[ Edited by Niners99 on Dec 13, 2009 at 17:15:21 ]
Originally posted by Niners99:
our glaring team needs are clearly OL on offense and DB on defense. but thats surprisingly about it.

Because of Alex Smith coming on and looking like hes going to work out for us, i think we have to shift our focus on using those two 1st rounders on a T and a DB. honestly, hindsight being 20/20, signing Clements was pointless. he is clearly getting older now, and isnt what he used to be at CB. he will probably make the jump to safety next year.

theres nothing wrong with Clements and Goldson/Lewis at S, but will Tarell Brown be ready to start full time next year? Spencer has been around longer than people realize, so he might need to be replaced sooner than youd think as well.

our secondary got old really fast somehow...the last end of the prime part of Clements career was wasted on rebuilding years.

but my point is, outside maybe replacing Franklin at NT when he leaves, CB is really the only area of need on defense, and OL is the only real area of need on offense. so were getting close to being a playoff team imo.

for the first time in years, i can look at both offense and defense and say were only a couple players away from being a solid playoff team. unfortunately, OL and Secondary are both HUGE parts of the success of the unit. a better secondary would allow us to blitz more, and vice versa.

there has to be a common reason why our OL draft picks have been letting us down. usually 1st day OL turn out the majority of the time. after Kwame, Baas, and Rachal, im beginning to wonder about our OL coaching. it shouldnt be taking this long to improve the unit.


Fixing the defense by getting more DBs without improving the pass rush is the same as getting another WR in the draft without upgrading the players on the OL.
a better secondary allows more time for the pass rush to get to the QB. a better pass rush makes the amount of time the secondary has to cover the WR's less. it goes hand in hand.

we HAVE the personnel to rush the passer IMO, but the worse our secondary gets, the less we can rush the passer. we DONT really have the personnel to shut down a good passing game, so thats where we draft.
Good post. I would really like it if we could get CJ Spiller(RB) & Joe Haden(CB) in the 1st & a tackle & passrusher in the 2nd & 3rd rounds.
agree OL but NOT DB (Clements is great, Spencer is great, Bly is good, Brown is average and that is 4 of the best cb in the nfl as a group) I would say PHI and NYJ are the only 2 teams with a better GROUP of cb's.

We need AN OL AND SAFETY.

we have drafted OL in the 1st and 2nd and nothing.....at least they turn out to be solid if not good to very good. But our picks.....???????????????????

It must be player abilities as well as coaching. I can't believe Baas, Rachal, Staley are all bad...with Staley being the only one considered to be above average or good. It's sad because i'm sure a lot of other 1st and 2nd rounders for OL don't have the best coaching but they turn out be be great even pro bowl.

It really sucks. I hope with our 1st 2 picks we get a safety and OT.
Originally posted by Niners99:
a better secondary allows more time for the pass rush to get to the QB. a better pass rush makes the amount of time the secondary has to cover the WR's less. it goes hand in hand.

we HAVE the personnel to rush the passer IMO, but the worse our secondary gets, the less we can rush the passer. we DONT really have the personnel to shut down a good passing game, so thats where we draft.

So what's easier to accomplish? Maintaining the talent of 2 - 4 players at a top level, or finding one player who can dominate and help change the game for you. Coverage sacks are much MORE rare than protection breakdowns.

I disagree that we have the personnel to CONSISTENTLY rush the passer. There were too many games this season that has proven this out. The worse our secondary gets the less we can rush the passer? The shutdown of a good passing game happens when the passer has to throw the ball before he's ready (which is exactly what happened to our own offense with Hill). Any passer, any passer given enough time will complete the pass particularly when NFL rules now emphasize the pass. The rules themselves make it almost impossible into today's NFL to "cover" your way to victory without a good/great CONSISTENT pass-rush.

Again, I'd much rather have one ACE pass-rusher (who immediately demands double teams, thus making all my other guys rushing better) than have to manage and maintain 2 or 3 ACE CBs and a good safety combination. Even if I have one ACE CB who takes away the best team's receiver, given enough time, the QB will find the open man.

[ Edited by NinerGM on Dec 13, 2009 at 17:36:05 ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Niners99:
a better secondary allows more time for the pass rush to get to the QB. a better pass rush makes the amount of time the secondary has to cover the WR's less. it goes hand in hand.

we HAVE the personnel to rush the passer IMO, but the worse our secondary gets, the less we can rush the passer. we DONT really have the personnel to shut down a good passing game, so thats where we draft.

So what's easier to accomplish? Maintaining the talent of 2 - 4 players at a top level, or finding one player who can dominate and help change the game for you. Coverage sacks are much MORE rare than protection breakdowns.

I disagree that we have the personnel to CONSISTENTLY rush the passer. There were too many games this season that has proven this out. The worse our secondary gets the less we can rush the passer? The shutdown of a good passing game happens when the passer has to throw the ball before he's ready (which is exactly what happened to our own offense with Hill). Any passer, any passer given enough time will complete the pass particularly when NFL rules now emphasize the pass. The rules themselves make it almost impossible into today's NFL to "cover" your way to victory without a good/great CONSISTENT pass-rush.

Again, I'd much rather have one ACE pass-rusher (who immediately demands double teams, thus making all my other guys rushing better) than have to manage and maintain 2 or 3 ACE CBs and a good safety combination. Even if I have one ACE CB who takes away the best team's receiver, given enough time, the QB will find the open man.

how do we even know if we dont already have an ACE pass rusher? our secondary isnt good enough to blitz consistently. Willis would be an insane pass rusher if he didnt need to do so many other things.

Justin Smith, Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Ahmad Brooks, etc all can rush the passer. we cant rush the passer because of the poor coverage, and Lawson and Haralson STILL have 10 sacks combined this year.

even if we got DeMarcus Ware, he wouldnt be able to do much pass rushing because a bad secondary wont allow it. you fix the secondary first and then worry about the pass rush after.

and Clements is not great. hes good at best. he isnt a shutdown corner anymore. hes losing it, and hes becoming more injury prone. more than likely he moves to safety next year. Spencer can hang alright. Bly will likely be gone due to poor attitude and under performance, and Brown might not be ready.
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.
Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

well Jonathan Stewart was also a 1st rounder with alot of talent. they only split because Williams came out of nowhere from possible bust-land to be elite. its unrealistic to expect us to find a Jonathan Stewart.

Coffee is a rookie, cut him some slack. Gore wasnt any better in his first season either.
Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

I think coffee will be ok, he was/is a rookie. He was ok in the preseason when our Oline pretended like it could block, imagine how him and gore would run if our oline was improved??

Robinson needs to be cut.

Our first round should be all Oline, even if those big name safeteys are sitting there. Oline is killing us, then we need some dline help/pass rush help. Then they can draft more db's.


Fix the trenches, and everyone else gets "better"
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Originally posted by confusedrhino:
To me, a huge glaring need is a quality RB backup. Gore is good but he needs to split carries, and Coffee is terrible. Robinson is not the answer either.

We need a RB who is good enough to step in 100% if Gore is done for the season. For example Carolina has two good guys in Williams and Stewart.

I think coffee will be ok, he was/is a rookie. He was ok in the preseason when our Oline pretended like it could block, imagine how him and gore would run if our oline was improved??

Robinson needs to be cut.

Our first round should be all Oline, even if those big name safeteys are sitting there. Oline is killing us, then we need some dline help/pass rush help. Then they can draft more db's.


Fix the trenches, and everyone else gets "better"

Robinson is a great special teams player. heck, hes the ST captain. he wont get cut.
OL and a OL coach are the two most glaring needs imo. Followed by PR/KR, safety and RB. A team can never have too many good corners, so thats a need too. The pass rush will never live up to this board's expectations especially in a 3-4 alignment.

[ Edited by AXEGRINDER on Dec 13, 2009 at 18:06:02 ]
1. OT
2. DB

Those are the two most glaring needs by far and it is in that order that I want to see us target player's in the draft.

I think the pass rush is at a level at which we don't need to splurge a first round pick on an OLB. Maybe we can target an OLB in the 2nd round.

-9fA
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Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Niners99:
a better secondary allows more time for the pass rush to get to the QB. a better pass rush makes the amount of time the secondary has to cover the WR's less. it goes hand in hand.

we HAVE the personnel to rush the passer IMO, but the worse our secondary gets, the less we can rush the passer. we DONT really have the personnel to shut down a good passing game, so thats where we draft.

So what's easier to accomplish? Maintaining the talent of 2 - 4 players at a top level, or finding one player who can dominate and help change the game for you. Coverage sacks are much MORE rare than protection breakdowns.

I disagree that we have the personnel to CONSISTENTLY rush the passer. There were too many games this season that has proven this out. The worse our secondary gets the less we can rush the passer? The shutdown of a good passing game happens when the passer has to throw the ball before he's ready (which is exactly what happened to our own offense with Hill). Any passer, any passer given enough time will complete the pass particularly when NFL rules now emphasize the pass. The rules themselves make it almost impossible into today's NFL to "cover" your way to victory without a good/great CONSISTENT pass-rush.

Again, I'd much rather have one ACE pass-rusher (who immediately demands double teams, thus making all my other guys rushing better) than have to manage and maintain 2 or 3 ACE CBs and a good safety combination. Even if I have one ACE CB who takes away the best team's receiver, given enough time, the QB will find the open man.

how do we even know if we dont already have an ACE pass rusher? our secondary isnt good enough to blitz consistently. Willis would be an insane pass rusher if he didnt need to do so many other things.

Justin Smith, Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Ahmad Brooks, etc all can rush the passer. we cant rush the passer because of the poor coverage, and Lawson and Haralson STILL have 10 sacks combined this year.

even if we got DeMarcus Ware, he wouldnt be able to do much pass rushing because a bad secondary wont allow it. you fix the secondary first and then worry about the pass rush after.

and Clements is not great. hes good at best. he isnt a shutdown corner anymore. hes losing it, and hes becoming more injury prone. more than likely he moves to safety next year. Spencer can hang alright. Bly will likely be gone due to poor attitude and under performance, and Brown might not be ready.

A team with great pass rushers does not need to blitz very often allowing them to drop more in coverage. Especially against the elite qb's in the league, blitzing is more often a negative than a positive no matter who you have in the secondary.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Niners99:
a better secondary allows more time for the pass rush to get to the QB. a better pass rush makes the amount of time the secondary has to cover the WR's less. it goes hand in hand.

we HAVE the personnel to rush the passer IMO, but the worse our secondary gets, the less we can rush the passer. we DONT really have the personnel to shut down a good passing game, so thats where we draft.

So what's easier to accomplish? Maintaining the talent of 2 - 4 players at a top level, or finding one player who can dominate and help change the game for you. Coverage sacks are much MORE rare than protection breakdowns.

I disagree that we have the personnel to CONSISTENTLY rush the passer. There were too many games this season that has proven this out. The worse our secondary gets the less we can rush the passer? The shutdown of a good passing game happens when the passer has to throw the ball before he's ready (which is exactly what happened to our own offense with Hill). Any passer, any passer given enough time will complete the pass particularly when NFL rules now emphasize the pass. The rules themselves make it almost impossible into today's NFL to "cover" your way to victory without a good/great CONSISTENT pass-rush.

Again, I'd much rather have one ACE pass-rusher (who immediately demands double teams, thus making all my other guys rushing better) than have to manage and maintain 2 or 3 ACE CBs and a good safety combination. Even if I have one ACE CB who takes away the best team's receiver, given enough time, the QB will find the open man.

how do we even know if we dont already have an ACE pass rusher? our secondary isnt good enough to blitz consistently. Willis would be an insane pass rusher if he didnt need to do so many other things.

Justin Smith, Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Ahmad Brooks, etc all can rush the passer. we cant rush the passer because of the poor coverage, and Lawson and Haralson STILL have 10 sacks combined this year.

even if we got DeMarcus Ware, he wouldnt be able to do much pass rushing because a bad secondary wont allow it. you fix the secondary first and then worry about the pass rush after.

and Clements is not great. hes good at best. he isnt a shutdown corner anymore. hes losing it, and hes becoming more injury prone. more than likely he moves to safety next year. Spencer can hang alright. Bly will likely be gone due to poor attitude and under performance, and Brown might not be ready.

What you're arguing here doesn't make football sense to me. We can't rush the passer because our secondary won't allow it?? You must mean blitzing right? I'm not talking about blitzing. Justin Smith is a DE in a 3-4 scheme. I don't expect him to "rush the passer", I do expect him to get pressure and allow another LB to rush the passer.

If we had DeMarcus Ware rushing as a LB in a 3-4 scheme, yes he could do it. What other responsibilities would he have to coverage? I'm confused dude. You'll have to explain this to me. I don't think this argument is at all about the secondary until you can explain why a secondary prevents one guy outside of blitzing, usually a OLB in a 3 - 4 prevents them from rushing the passer. Willis wouldn't primarily be responsible for pass-rush. Lawson or Haralson would have that responsibility and they simply haven't been consistent. Again my argument isn't about ability it's about CONSISTENCY.

And the draft isn't the only place in which to find a good pass-rusher. That would actually take some personnel eval skill from our coaching staff in conjunction with our GM.

[ Edited by NinerGM on Dec 13, 2009 at 18:34:38 ]