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Basic Offensive Ideology

Jimmy Raye has got to get back to the basics. Raye, like everyone else is enamored with Alex's big arm and rifle accuracy. Don't get me wrong I love what I am seeing from Alex.

Raye has showen the ability to spread the ball around and utilize his weapons well, I am pleased to see this as I like many others here was worried about becoming a boring predictable ground attack.

The poor coaching by Gregg Forrester and Bad blocking schemes upfront are killing the run game. We need to stick to "Man to Man" power blocking on on our Iso, Counter, and Blast plays, but learn to mix in more "Zone" on Off-Tackle and Sweep.
They need to test the corners behind VD and Walker out of the "Raye-Gun".

The Niners are having a tough time on third downs for a number of reasons. They need to embrace the most basic of all Offensive philosophies; You do best on third downs by avoiding them! First down is is not a playground! First down is a lunch box down it is a meat and potatoes down. By this I don't mean that you have to conservative on every first down, just 90% of them.

Running an end around to the TE is not a bread and butter first down play, going deep down the seam to Davis is also not a great 1st or 2nd down play. In order to be more productive 1st and 2nd downs need to be more about Gore going off tackle, Iso, or counter, and VD and Crabs running more Slant and Drag routes. Quick hard hitting money plays built to gain 4-7 yards a crack.

I know it is "predictable" but good offenses that execute well can afford to be predictable, this makes the gadget, plays and deep balls more effective, because a defense that is being forced by predictable well executed plays to rally to the ball is more easily fooled.

Basic Offensive Ideology, Smash them in the mouth on the Lunch box downs until you can put it up over their heads!
Seems, to me, that Raye has spent most of this year just figuring out who he's got and how to use them. In other words, it may not be til next year that he figures out what everyone does best, under pressure, and how to get them all to mesh.

Its no surprise that the offense is not a well oiled machine this year, there's just been too many changes, starting at the top.

That said, however, it also seems that there are a number of guys with the potential to be really good, if not great, on offense.

If the offense is still stumbling around at this time next year, looking for their identity and unable to execute a simple run play when they need it, then it might be time for a change. But for now its a work in progress, IMHO.
I appreciate your opinion. I agree that we must have an offensive philosophy.

First things first, you can't put the horse in front of the cart. Our Oline sucks in run blocking - period! They flat out suck. So, we need to patch the holes before we can open them.

Years ago in the 60's I was a boxer and fought n the Golden Gloves in NYC. Very few people, then and now, have one punch knock-out power. Combination punching destroys the oppoenets, it flat out demoralizes them and send them to the hospital.

We need combination offense that flat out destroys people and sends them to the hospital. I've been a fan since 1976 and I remember the glory days. We had a balanced attack that kicked ass week in and week out. Every opponent didn't just have to game plan for Rice & Taylor - they had to plan Craig & Rathman, and we almost always scored first. Then they had to play catch up.

Sorry for the long winded stuff. I'm as frustrated as everyone else.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

First things first, you can't put the horse in front of the cart.

First they try the 'we are a power running team' or to those philosophy. That didn't work so they spread it out in hope to give Gore room to operate. That hasn't work so far. So reasonable deduction says it's the Oline guys up front ain't getting it done. Cause if you got the horses or talents, scheme or philosophy is almost secondary.
We definetely need to pick a direction for the offense & go with it. I do think we have & I believe we will draft for more of a spread type offense who can run the ball after a full offseason together. This will also help make this team even beter on third downs next season. It is unbelievable that our offense has completely changed in the middle of the year.
I believe we will be fine once we fix that offensive line problem we are having. We won't have to run the spread offense if we get some guys that don't get dominated in the running game. The offense that we ran in '06 will work fine if we have the guys to block, coincidentally that is the same offense that Raye is a student of.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

First things first, you can't put the horse in front of the cart.


  • the_woad
  • Info N/A
The thing I have noticed about the offensive performance is that we seem to be perpetually starting drives within our 10-yard line. This almost always leads to a 3-and-out, followed by a punt giving the other team good field position. Then our defense stops them around the 40/50 yard line, they punt, and then we are in horrible field position again. Classic feedback loop.

As for offensive ideology... if the chains are moving, if we are keeping the defense off the field, if we are moving the ball ... who cares? We could have balance if we had a running game. We do not. This team thrived for 20 years on short timing passes. This is nothing new.

[ Edited by the_woad on Dec 12, 2009 at 14:24:38 ]
Can't disagree more...respectfully! Since the OLine, A Smith, VD and Crabtree are more effective in the quasi-spread, why would they go back to smash mouth? To appease Gore? I agree that there should be more balance but the offense seems to be getting better using the spread and that bodes well for the long haul.

The rest of the year should be decidated to finding out if A Smith is a real candidate to carry the team in the future and to see which WRs and OLinemen should be kept around next year...who should be starters, etc. Why go back to smash mouth with a bad line...see if some DL can break Smith's other shoulder?

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 12, 2009 at 15:43:33 ]
Originally posted by the_woad:
The thing I have noticed about the offensive performance is that we seem to be perpetually starting drives within our 10-yard line. This almost always leads to a 3-and-out, followed by a punt giving the other team good field position. Then our defense stops them around the 40/50 yard line, they punt, and then we are in horrible field position again. Classic feedback loop.

As for offensive ideology... if the chains are moving, if we are keeping the defense off the field, if we are moving the ball ... who cares? We could have balance if we had a running game. We do not. This team thrived for 20 years on short timing passes. This is nothing new.

I agree. Field position is our biggest weakness and that comes back to special teams being more like little yellow bus special.

In every phase of the game we are missing something crucial. On special teams we're missing a dynamic returner, on defense we're missing good safety play, and on offense we're missing good line play.

So close....
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

First things first, you can't put the horse in front of the cart.



Originally posted by ads_2006:
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

First things first, you can't put the horse in front of the cart.



Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Can't disagree more...respectfully! Since the OLine, A Smith, VD and Crabtree are more effective in the quasi-spread, why would they go back to smash mouth? To appease Gore? I agree that there should be more balance but the offense seems to be getting better using the spread and that bodes well for the long haul.

The rest of the year should be decidated to finding out if A Smith is a real candidate to carry the team in the future and to see which WRs and OLinemen should be kept around next year...who should be starters, etc. Why go back to smash mouth with a bad line...see if some DL can break Smith's other shoulder?

I'm not advocating "Smash mouth" I am simply suggesting we do what good teams do...avoid 3rd down. Trow underneath or run on 1st down set up a second and manageable. Keep it underneath, force the defense to make plays, take less big shots and mid range shots. 1-13 is awful, not just that we only converted 1 but also that we faced 13!
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Can't disagree more...respectfully! Since the OLine, A Smith, VD and Crabtree are more effective in the quasi-spread, why would they go back to smash mouth? To appease Gore? I agree that there should be more balance but the offense seems to be getting better using the spread and that bodes well for the long haul.

The rest of the year should be decidated to finding out if A Smith is a real candidate to carry the team in the future and to see which WRs and OLinemen should be kept around next year...who should be starters, etc. Why go back to smash mouth with a bad line...see if some DL can break Smith's other shoulder?

I'm not advocating "Smash mouth" I am simply suggesting we do what good teams do...avoid 3rd down. Trow underneath or run on 1st down set up a second and manageable. Keep it underneath, force the defense to make plays, take less big shots and mid range shots. 1-13 is awful, not just that we only converted 1 but also that we faced 13!

Got it. The stats showing Smith being pretty good in the red zone indicate that it is not a pressure problem but perhaps the playcalling, as you suggest. Penalties and field position have also been devastating by putting the team in a hole right off the bat. Progress is being made, though, and it gives hope for next year...wish I could be optimistic about this year but don't believe in miracles. Thanks for the clarification.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 12, 2009 at 22:26:45 ]