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THE SACKS ARE NOT MISLEADING

  • tmg808
  • Info N/A
The 49ers are ranked right now 7th in Sacks and many people believe this is misleading because they are not getting constant pressure on the QB, but the stats say that they ARE getting constant pressure:

The only stat that is kept that proves pressure is QB hits
By Stats on the ESPN network the 49ers have hit the QB 71 times in the season
Only 4 games out of 12 has the 49ers allowed more QB hits than there opponent

The total Offensive Line Stats From NFL.com Stats Show:
The Average time allows there team to get hit is 59 with 55 being in the middle
And there is a team that has given up 71 which ranks 6th worse in the NFL
The Colts being the team with the lowest amount of QB hits at 2.75 a game the 49ers had 5 QB hits against them.


With those facts combined with the seciondary having a low amount of pass defenses and low amount of interceptions show the problem is not the pass rush, the problem is the secondary.

[ Edited by tmg808 on Dec 10, 2009 at 12:52:49 ]
Interesting statistics. Shows Indiannapolis does its job well.
Not misleading but doesn't tell the full story.
Does this count as a hit on the QB?


The coverage is initially great, the QB holds onto the ball a little longer than normal, let us say 3 seconds and then the QB throws the ball just after 3 seconds as a receiver breaks coverage and then the QB gets hit?

If that's still a hit on the QB then I don't think our QB pressure is all that great.
Originally posted by tmg808:
The 49ers are ranked right now 7th in Sacks and many people believe this is misleading because they are not getting constant pressure on the QB, but the stats say that they ARE getting constant pressure:

The only stat that is kept that proves pressure is QB hits
By Stats on the ESPN network the 49ers have hit the QB 71 times in the season
Only 4 games out of 12 has the 49ers allowed more QB hits than there opponent

The total Offensive Line Stats From NFL.com Stats Show:
The Average time allows there team to get hit is 59 with 55 being in the middle
And there is a team that has given up 71 which ranks 6th worse in the NFL
The Colts being the team with the lowest amount of QB hits at 2.75 a game the 49ers had 5 QB hits against them.


With those facts combined with the seciondary having a low amount of pass defenses and low amount of interceptions show the problem is not the pass rush, the problem is the secondary.

Stats should not be evaluated without context. If you're losing 37 - 15, the other team consistently brings in the 2nd string QB and he throws 4 picks, creating a stat turnover rating of +12, does that mean your defense is good? Not necessarily.

If you really want to judge pressure, show me opposing 3rd down conversion rates and how many picks the team has (forcing bad throws, forcing receivers out of position), opposing QB completion percentage. I think those are better judgments than taking one stat and making a general conclusion about an entire defense (pressure).
  • tmg808
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by taney71:
Not misleading but doesn't tell the full story.

Ryan Clark of the Steelers just said it best about his own team which is the same problem the 49ers have. They do not show the urgency when the clock runs down as there opponent.

- Lost on last second pass against Vikings
- Threw an interception with 1:40 left to lose to the Texans
- Couldn't get the Colts, Titans, or Packers off the field at the end of the game.
- Fumbled at the end of the game, gave up last second FG against Seahawks

6 of the 7 losses have came to the last possession of the game with a reasonable amount of time left.
  • tmg808
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by tmg808:
The 49ers are ranked right now 7th in Sacks and many people believe this is misleading because they are not getting constant pressure on the QB, but the stats say that they ARE getting constant pressure:

The only stat that is kept that proves pressure is QB hits
By Stats on the ESPN network the 49ers have hit the QB 71 times in the season
Only 4 games out of 12 has the 49ers allowed more QB hits than there opponent

The total Offensive Line Stats From NFL.com Stats Show:
The Average time allows there team to get hit is 59 with 55 being in the middle
And there is a team that has given up 71 which ranks 6th worse in the NFL
The Colts being the team with the lowest amount of QB hits at 2.75 a game the 49ers had 5 QB hits against them.


With those facts combined with the seciondary having a low amount of pass defenses and low amount of interceptions show the problem is not the pass rush, the problem is the secondary.

Stats should not be evaluated without context. If you're losing 37 - 15, the other team consistently brings in the 2nd string QB and he throws 4 picks, creating a stat turnover rating of +12, does that mean your defense is good? Not necessarily.

If you really want to judge pressure, show me opposing 3rd down conversion rates and how many picks the team has (forcing bad throws, forcing receivers out of position), opposing QB completion percentage. I think those are better judgments than taking one stat and making a general conclusion about an entire defense (pressure).

We are talking about pass rush and pressure on the QB, The top teams in Sacks are not the top teams in Opp 3rd down conversion rates. ( Pittsburg 2nd in sacks 20th in 3rd down conversion rate)
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by tmg808:
The 49ers are ranked right now 7th in Sacks and many people believe this is misleading because they are not getting constant pressure on the QB, but the stats say that they ARE getting constant pressure:

The only stat that is kept that proves pressure is QB hits
By Stats on the ESPN network the 49ers have hit the QB 71 times in the season
Only 4 games out of 12 has the 49ers allowed more QB hits than there opponent

The total Offensive Line Stats From NFL.com Stats Show:
The Average time allows there team to get hit is 59 with 55 being in the middle
And there is a team that has given up 71 which ranks 6th worse in the NFL
The Colts being the team with the lowest amount of QB hits at 2.75 a game the 49ers had 5 QB hits against them.


With those facts combined with the seciondary having a low amount of pass defenses and low amount of interceptions show the problem is not the pass rush, the problem is the secondary.

Stats should not be evaluated without context. If you're losing 37 - 15, the other team consistently brings in the 2nd string QB and he throws 4 picks, creating a stat turnover rating of +12, does that mean your defense is good? Not necessarily.

If you really want to judge pressure, show me opposing 3rd down conversion rates and how many picks the team has (forcing bad throws, forcing receivers out of position), opposing QB completion percentage. I think those are better judgments than taking one stat and making a general conclusion about an entire defense (pressure).

thanks homie. Anybody who believes this team doesn't need help in the pass rushing department are just fooling themselves. Like you said on 3rd downs they never get off the field b/c the qb is usually back there chilling. It has picked up but once again it comes at the tail end of the year. where is the consistency at throughout the season. Where was the pass rush against GB when the team really needed a win? where was the pass rush on Seattle's last drive? Colts were just ont eh field allday burning the clock.

I do agree that it's not all on the pass rush. It's a combo of both. The secondary does have holes especially at safety.
  • tmg808
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Joecool:
Does this count as a hit on the QB?


The coverage is initially great, the QB holds onto the ball a little longer than normal, let us say 3 seconds and then the QB throws the ball just after 3 seconds as a receiver breaks coverage and then the QB gets hit?

If that's still a hit on the QB then I don't think our QB pressure is all that great.

So being 8th worse in the league in pass defense, I guess that says the secondary is always in position or nearby??? (Sarcasm)
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by taney71:
Not misleading but doesn't tell the full story.

Ryan Clark of the Steelers just said it best about his own team which is the same problem the 49ers have. They do not show the urgency when the clock runs down as there opponent.

- Lost on last second pass against Vikings
- Threw an interception with 1:40 left to lose to the Texans
- Couldn't get the Colts, Titans, or Packers off the field at the end of the game.
- Fumbled at the end of the game, gave up last second FG against Seahawks

6 of the 7 losses have came to the last possession of the game with a reasonable amount of time left.

Agree that we have not been able to finish games this year!
  • tmg808
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by tmg808:
The 49ers are ranked right now 7th in Sacks and many people believe this is misleading because they are not getting constant pressure on the QB, but the stats say that they ARE getting constant pressure:

The only stat that is kept that proves pressure is QB hits
By Stats on the ESPN network the 49ers have hit the QB 71 times in the season
Only 4 games out of 12 has the 49ers allowed more QB hits than there opponent

The total Offensive Line Stats From NFL.com Stats Show:
The Average time allows there team to get hit is 59 with 55 being in the middle
And there is a team that has given up 71 which ranks 6th worse in the NFL
The Colts being the team with the lowest amount of QB hits at 2.75 a game the 49ers had 5 QB hits against them.


With those facts combined with the seciondary having a low amount of pass defenses and low amount of interceptions show the problem is not the pass rush, the problem is the secondary.

Stats should not be evaluated without context. If you're losing 37 - 15, the other team consistently brings in the 2nd string QB and he throws 4 picks, creating a stat turnover rating of +12, does that mean your defense is good? Not necessarily.

If you really want to judge pressure, show me opposing 3rd down conversion rates and how many picks the team has (forcing bad throws, forcing receivers out of position), opposing QB completion percentage. I think those are better judgments than taking one stat and making a general conclusion about an entire defense (pressure).

thanks homie. Anybody who believes this team doesn't need help in the pass rushing department are just fooling themselves. Like you said on 3rd downs they never get off the field b/c the qb is usually back there chilling. It has picked up but once again it comes at the tail end of the year. where is the consistency at throughout the season. Where was the pass rush against GB when the team really needed a win? where was the pass rush on Seattle's last drive? Colts were just ont eh field allday burning the clock.

I do agree that it's not all on the pass rush. It's a combo of both. The secondary does have holes especially at safety.

First of all, consistency has been there but the situational pressure has not, like I wrote they haven't had the urgency to finish games. But there is no blaming the pass rush in Seattle, there was no time for pass rush in Seattle, that was a 3 step drop and a lob pass over the corner which the safety was no were in sight.
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Does this count as a hit on the QB?


The coverage is initially great, the QB holds onto the ball a little longer than normal, let us say 3 seconds and then the QB throws the ball just after 3 seconds as a receiver breaks coverage and then the QB gets hit?

If that's still a hit on the QB then I don't think our QB pressure is all that great.

So being 8th worse in the league in pass defense, I guess that says the secondary is always in position or nearby??? (Sarcasm)

Early on in the season, it looked like we were getting quite a bit of coverage sacks. I'm not saying our QB pressure sucks, I'm just saying that it's not as good as the numbers show it is.
  • TX9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,247
Stats. Great. How come when I'm watching the game me and my buddy are screaming at the TV because the QB has all day when it counts? Remeber when Aaron Rodgers was far and away getting sacked more than anyone, then played us and had a clean jersey all day? I don't care what the numbers say, I SEE that our pass rush from a consistency standpoint flat out sucks.
Originally posted by tmg808:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by tmg808:
The 49ers are ranked right now 7th in Sacks and many people believe this is misleading because they are not getting constant pressure on the QB, but the stats say that they ARE getting constant pressure:

The only stat that is kept that proves pressure is QB hits
By Stats on the ESPN network the 49ers have hit the QB 71 times in the season
Only 4 games out of 12 has the 49ers allowed more QB hits than there opponent

The total Offensive Line Stats From NFL.com Stats Show:
The Average time allows there team to get hit is 59 with 55 being in the middle
And there is a team that has given up 71 which ranks 6th worse in the NFL
The Colts being the team with the lowest amount of QB hits at 2.75 a game the 49ers had 5 QB hits against them.


With those facts combined with the seciondary having a low amount of pass defenses and low amount of interceptions show the problem is not the pass rush, the problem is the secondary.

Stats should not be evaluated without context. If you're losing 37 - 15, the other team consistently brings in the 2nd string QB and he throws 4 picks, creating a stat turnover rating of +12, does that mean your defense is good? Not necessarily.

If you really want to judge pressure, show me opposing 3rd down conversion rates and how many picks the team has (forcing bad throws, forcing receivers out of position), opposing QB completion percentage. I think those are better judgments than taking one stat and making a general conclusion about an entire defense (pressure).

thanks homie. Anybody who believes this team doesn't need help in the pass rushing department are just fooling themselves. Like you said on 3rd downs they never get off the field b/c the qb is usually back there chilling. It has picked up but once again it comes at the tail end of the year. where is the consistency at throughout the season. Where was the pass rush against GB when the team really needed a win? where was the pass rush on Seattle's last drive? Colts were just ont eh field allday burning the clock.

I do agree that it's not all on the pass rush. It's a combo of both. The secondary does have holes especially at safety.

First of all, consistency has been there but the situational pressure has not, like I wrote they haven't had the urgency to finish games. But there is no blaming the pass rush in Seattle, there was no time for pass rush in Seattle, that was a 3 step drop and a lob pass over the corner which the safety was no were in sight.

But is hasn't been consistent. If it were consistent then you would have seen pass rush from this team all year long. If it were consistent then they wouldn't just be all of the sudden ranked in the top 10 in sacks they would have been there all year long. Why don't you think they have that late game urgency? I agree with you on that note. But there have been more than a handful of games where the opposing teams qb is just not feeling any pressure at all. and it doesn't have to be all sacks just some pressure. And this team is very off and on at getting pressure on QB's. this isn't taking any blame from teh secondary nor am i saying the pass rush is god awful. I think it's still needs an upgrade and would be very disappointed if it wasn't. the secondary most definitely needs some help. i do agree they are not playing up to par.

side note you got some pretty good threads in the last few days keep it up
  • tmg808
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Originally posted by TX9R:
Stats. Great. How come when I'm watching the game me and my buddy are screaming at the TV because the QB has all day when it counts? Remeber when Aaron Rodgers was far and away getting sacked more than anyone, then played us and had a clean jersey all day? I don't care what the numbers say, I SEE that our pass rush from a consistency standpoint flat out sucks.

Against Aaron Rogers, yes everyone expected sacks, but they didn't come. I have given examples of the whole body of the season yet, everyone keeps talking about 1 game. There was 4 games where the pass rush wasn't getting there but I am sure all the other teams at the top have had games where they didn't get there as well.

The reason I bring up the point about pass rush because I am saying they are many stats that support that the pass rush is good most of the time, but there are no stats that support the secondary.