Alex Smith vs. Drew Brees...

Just as an example....

Brees barely played as a rookie and Alex probably shouldn't have played at all....so I will throw out thiose statistics.

Lets start with year 2 stats....both players in a Norv Turner offense.

YEAR 2
Brees: 320 526 60.8 3,284 17 TDs 16 INTs 76.9 Rating
Smith: 257 442 58.1 2,890 16 TDs 16 INTs 74.8 Rating

In year three, Brees struggled. Smith got hurt in week 4 and shouldn't have been playing. 3 INTs came in games AFTER the injury and were on WAY underthrown deep throws. Nolan NEVER should have allowed him to play.

YEAR 3
Brees: 205 356 57.6 2,108 11 TDs 15 INTs 67.5 Rating
Smith: 94 193 48.7 914 2 TDs 4 INTs 57.2 Rating

Smith didn't get another shot to play the following season after another year of alternating OCs and an injury based on the prior seasons injury. For that reason, I'll count THIS season as Smiths year 4.

YEAR 4
Brees: 262 400 65.5 3,159 27 TDs 7 INTs 104.8 Rating
Smith: 149 241 61.8 1,577 13 TDs 7 INTs 86.7 Rating (so far)

Keep in mind tho that at this point Brees has been in the same O for 4 years and Smith is in a new O for the 5th time in 5 years.

I don't want to make it sound as if I'm saying Smith will throw for 5000 yards next year, I'm just saying Brees is an example of what happens when you hang around long enough and work yard enough. It will eventually all come around.

THAT is why I never really gave up on Smith. He wants it and he warks HARD.
He's not Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell, two players with a world of potential but are/were total nutcases.

I know they are both pretty good friends.



But yeah I know what you mean. Brees is obviously in his own league but the bigger point (which some OBVIOUSLY dont get) is that you can never count someone out.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Absolutely ZERO comparison other than the fact that they both hurt their shoulder.

Drew Brees in his rookie year started ONE game in which he went 15 for 27 and 221 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT.

Drew Brees was not being considered to be a backup due to his performance because he threw for 3,284 yards in his second year. He was being considered for the backup because SD paid a crap load to acquire Rivers and it was money sitting on the bench.

Alex was the money sitting on the bench for us, not the successful starter who was already here.

Drew Brees threw 65.5% for 3,159 yards with 27 TDs to 7 INTS for the Chargers in his 4th year!

Chargers were paying too much money for two QBs so they decided to go with the more talent that more money was invested in.

Yes, the Chargers DID consider him a backup...otherwise they never would have even DRAFTED Manning or Rivers.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
I know they are both pretty good friends.



But yeah I know what you mean. Brees is obviously in his own league but the bigger point (which some OBVIOUSLY dont get) is that you can never count someone out.

this....Time will tell for Alex..but he seems to be coming around.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
I know they are both pretty good friends.



But yeah I know what you mean. Brees is obviously in his own league but the bigger point (which some OBVIOUSLY dont get) is that you can never count someone out.

Thats my point exactly.

I'm not trying to say Smith will be as good as Brees is now. I'm trying to illustrate a similar career trajectory so that people can see that sometimes, a player comes around when he works hard enough and is simply able to stay in the league.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Absolutely ZERO comparison other than the fact that they both hurt their shoulder.

Drew Brees in his rookie year started ONE game in which he went 15 for 27 and 221 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT.

Drew Brees was not being considered to be a backup due to his performance because he threw for 3,284 yards in his second year. He was being considered for the backup because SD paid a crap load to acquire Rivers and it was money sitting on the bench.

Alex was the money sitting on the bench for us, not the successful starter who was already here.

Drew Brees threw 65.5% for 3,159 yards with 27 TDs to 7 INTS for the Chargers in his 4th year!

Chargers were paying too much money for two QBs so they decided to go with the more talent that more money was invested in.

Yes, the Chargers DID consider him a backup...otherwise they never would have even DRAFTED Manning or Rivers.

That was because he injured his shoulder at the end of year 3, which is why he had the "bad" year. The Chargers thought the shoulder injury was one that he wouldn't be able to come back from and they had a chance at drafting another franchise QB. Drew Brees wasn't in the strong arm category which is why they thought his career was over and desired a strong-armed QB with Uber talent.

If you tell me I have a chance at getting a Manning on my team after seeing the older brother and my QB just had a serious shoulder injury, I wouldn't hesitate. On top of that, Rivers was also considered a #1 prospect. Teams shouldn't ever pass up on Franchise QBs which is what SD went for. Then, they had the dilemma of paying major money to that draft pick while he was sitting on the bench or get something in value for a trade.

Brees threw for 64.6% and 3,576 yards with a rating of 89.2 in his 5th year on the Chargers.

If you want to bench a QB, then you do it but Brees played 16 games in that last year with the Chargers. There was just too much invested in Rivers to keep him on the bench which was why Brees was considered.

And unlike Alex Smith, teams wanted Brees upon his availability.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Absolutely ZERO comparison other than the fact that they both hurt their shoulder.

Drew Brees in his rookie year started ONE game in which he went 15 for 27 and 221 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT.

Drew Brees was not being considered to be a backup due to his performance because he threw for 3,284 yards in his second year. He was being considered for the backup because SD paid a crap load to acquire Rivers and it was money sitting on the bench.

Alex was the money sitting on the bench for us, not the successful starter who was already here.

Drew Brees threw 65.5% for 3,159 yards with 27 TDs to 7 INTS for the Chargers in his 4th year!

Chargers were paying too much money for two QBs so they decided to go with the more talent that more money was invested in.

Yes, the Chargers DID consider him a backup...otherwise they never would have even DRAFTED Manning or Rivers.

That was because he injured his shoulder at the end of year 3, which is why he had the "bad" year. The Chargers thought the shoulder injury was one that he wouldn't be able to come back from and they had a chance at drafting another franchise QB. Drew Brees wasn't in the strong arm category which is why they thought his career was over and desired a strong-armed QB with Uber talent.

If you tell me I have a chance at getting a Manning on my team after seeing the older brother and my QB just had a serious shoulder injury, I wouldn't hesitate. On top of that, Rivers was also considered a #1 prospect. Teams shouldn't ever pass up on Franchise QBs which is what SD went for. Then, they had the dilemma of paying major money to that draft pick while he was sitting on the bench or get something in value for a trade.

Brees threw for 64.6% and 3,576 yards with a rating of 89.2 in his 5th year on the Chargers.

If you want to bench a QB, then you do it but Brees played 16 games in that last year with the Chargers. There was just too much invested in Rivers to keep him on the bench which was why Brees was considered.

And unlike Alex Smith, teams wanted Brees upon his availability.

They would want him now. You're not keeping up with the times I see.

BTW Brees had the same Offense 4 years in a row. Alex had 5 OC's in 5 years plus injuries which were season ending.

[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Dec 9, 2009 at 11:45:26 ]

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Overkill:
I see a vague similarity in terms of career trajectory, but the similarities end there imo.

Brees found success by adapting to NFL offenses. To this point, Alex has only found success when the offense is adapted to him.

LOL. Do you even watch the games? The entire New Orleans offense is adapted to Drew Brees. That's what good teams do. Play to thier players strengths. Stupid teams like ours play to their players weaknesses for 4 1/2 years and finally figure out gee maybe Alex in the spread is a good idea... The New Orleans offense is very much spread and shotgun and they brought in tons of elite weapons over the years in the draft, FA, trade and all kinds of ways just for Brees. Everything they have built and established was to fit Brees comfort zone.

Well said.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Absolutely ZERO comparison other than the fact that they both hurt their shoulder.

Drew Brees in his rookie year started ONE game in which he went 15 for 27 and 221 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT.

Drew Brees was not being considered to be a backup due to his performance because he threw for 3,284 yards in his second year. He was being considered for the backup because SD paid a crap load to acquire Rivers and it was money sitting on the bench.

Alex was the money sitting on the bench for us, not the successful starter who was already here.

Drew Brees threw 65.5% for 3,159 yards with 27 TDs to 7 INTS for the Chargers in his 4th year!

Chargers were paying too much money for two QBs so they decided to go with the more talent that more money was invested in.

Yes, the Chargers DID consider him a backup...otherwise they never would have even DRAFTED Manning or Rivers.

That was because he injured his shoulder at the end of year 3, which is why he had the "bad" year. The Chargers thought the shoulder injury was one that he wouldn't be able to come back from and they had a chance at drafting another franchise QB. Drew Brees wasn't in the strong arm category which is why they thought his career was over and desired a strong-armed QB with Uber talent.

If you tell me I have a chance at getting a Manning on my team after seeing the older brother and my QB just had a serious shoulder injury, I wouldn't hesitate. On top of that, Rivers was also considered a #1 prospect. Teams shouldn't ever pass up on Franchise QBs which is what SD went for. Then, they had the dilemma of paying major money to that draft pick while he was sitting on the bench or get something in value for a trade.

Brees threw for 64.6% and 3,576 yards with a rating of 89.2 in his 5th year on the Chargers.

If you want to bench a QB, then you do it but Brees played 16 games in that last year with the Chargers. There was just too much invested in Rivers to keep him on the bench which was why Brees was considered.

And unlike Alex Smith, teams wanted Brees upon his availability.

Typical Joe. Conflating irrelevant points to dodge acknowledging the the OP's BIGGER point.

Anything to berate Smith I guess.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Absolutely ZERO comparison other than the fact that they both hurt their shoulder.

Drew Brees in his rookie year started ONE game in which he went 15 for 27 and 221 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT.

Drew Brees was not being considered to be a backup due to his performance because he threw for 3,284 yards in his second year. He was being considered for the backup because SD paid a crap load to acquire Rivers and it was money sitting on the bench.

Alex was the money sitting on the bench for us, not the successful starter who was already here.

Drew Brees threw 65.5% for 3,159 yards with 27 TDs to 7 INTS for the Chargers in his 4th year!

Chargers were paying too much money for two QBs so they decided to go with the more talent that more money was invested in.

Yes, the Chargers DID consider him a backup...otherwise they never would have even DRAFTED Manning or Rivers.

That was because he injured his shoulder at the end of year 3, which is why he had the "bad" year. The Chargers thought the shoulder injury was one that he wouldn't be able to come back from and they had a chance at drafting another franchise QB. Drew Brees wasn't in the strong arm category which is why they thought his career was over and desired a strong-armed QB with Uber talent.

If you tell me I have a chance at getting a Manning on my team after seeing the older brother and my QB just had a serious shoulder injury, I wouldn't hesitate. On top of that, Rivers was also considered a #1 prospect. Teams shouldn't ever pass up on Franchise QBs which is what SD went for. Then, they had the dilemma of paying major money to that draft pick while he was sitting on the bench or get something in value for a trade.

Brees threw for 64.6% and 3,576 yards with a rating of 89.2 in his 5th year on the Chargers.

If you want to bench a QB, then you do it but Brees played 16 games in that last year with the Chargers. There was just too much invested in Rivers to keep him on the bench which was why Brees was considered.

And unlike Alex Smith, teams wanted Brees upon his availability.

That final year for Brees? Those numbers look ALOT like the number Alex is putting up this year (89.2 Rating for Brees, 86.7 for Smith).

If you extrapolate Smiths #s over 16 games, he has 3881 yards, 32 TDs, and 17 INTs. Brees had 3576 Yards, 24 TDs, and 15 INTs.

Do you really think nobody would be interested in that? I think you are letting your preset opinion of Smith get in the way. I'm not saying he is a star in the making, I'm saying he, like Brees, is capable of making a career comeback.

Yeah, Alex Smith "get's it"... now his receivers just need to catch it!

Originally posted by Overkill:
I see a vague similarity in terms of career trajectory, but the similarities end there imo.

Brees found success by adapting to NFL offenses. To this point, Alex has only found success when the offense is adapted to him.

Define NFL offense....

...The reason I say that is because since Brees and Payton showed up in New Orleans, they have run more of a spread-type offense. Even when he was with the Chargers, he didnt start playing real well until they got Gates in at tight end and were able to throw the ball more. The Smith/Davis connection reminds me a lot of the Brees/Gates one because they are both emerging at about the same time.

The best part about this Niners offense is the potential. They are scoring and moving the ball and they have only been running this style offense for half the season. They will only get better as Smith gets more comfortable, the WRs learn their roles, and the O-line gets better as a unit.

With all that said, consider this my vote of confidence in keeping Raye next season. Considering the amount of change we have seen over the course of the year, the offense is starting to look legit.

[ Edited by TheRatMan13 on Dec 9, 2009 at 11:54:11 ]

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Absolutely ZERO comparison other than the fact that they both hurt their shoulder.

Drew Brees in his rookie year started ONE game in which he went 15 for 27 and 221 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT.

Drew Brees was not being considered to be a backup due to his performance because he threw for 3,284 yards in his second year. He was being considered for the backup because SD paid a crap load to acquire Rivers and it was money sitting on the bench.

Alex was the money sitting on the bench for us, not the successful starter who was already here.

Drew Brees threw 65.5% for 3,159 yards with 27 TDs to 7 INTS for the Chargers in his 4th year!

Chargers were paying too much money for two QBs so they decided to go with the more talent that more money was invested in.

Yes, the Chargers DID consider him a backup...otherwise they never would have even DRAFTED Manning or Rivers.

That was because he injured his shoulder at the end of year 3, which is why he had the "bad" year. The Chargers thought the shoulder injury was one that he wouldn't be able to come back from and they had a chance at drafting another franchise QB. Drew Brees wasn't in the strong arm category which is why they thought his career was over and desired a strong-armed QB with Uber talent.

If you tell me I have a chance at getting a Manning on my team after seeing the older brother and my QB just had a serious shoulder injury, I wouldn't hesitate. On top of that, Rivers was also considered a #1 prospect. Teams shouldn't ever pass up on Franchise QBs which is what SD went for. Then, they had the dilemma of paying major money to that draft pick while he was sitting on the bench or get something in value for a trade.

Brees threw for 64.6% and 3,576 yards with a rating of 89.2 in his 5th year on the Chargers.

If you want to bench a QB, then you do it but Brees played 16 games in that last year with the Chargers. There was just too much invested in Rivers to keep him on the bench which was why Brees was considered.

And unlike Alex Smith, teams wanted Brees upon his availability.

They would want him now. You're not keeping up with the times I see.

BTW Brees had the same Offense 4 years in a row. Alex had 5 OC's in 5 years plus injuries which were season ending.

Yes, which even lessons the comparison. I'm just saying, Brees wasn't wanted because SD couldn't pass up an opportunity most teams don't get when they have NO QB. No team is going to pass up on a franchise QB because you can always get value for him or the incumbent starter if he is good enough.

The only thing they had in common is the fact that both teams looked for something better. In Brees' case, SD couldn't pass up an opportunity that rarely comes whereas the 49ers felt they didn't have a QB at all.

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

Originally posted by Overkill:
I see a vague similarity in terms of career trajectory, but the similarities end there imo.

Brees found success by adapting to NFL offenses. To this point, Alex has only found success when the offense is adapted to him.

Define NFL offense....

...The reason I say that is because since Brees and Payton showed up in New Orleans, they have run more of a spread-type offense. Even when he was with the Chargers, he didnt start playing real well until they got Gates in at tight end and were able to throw the ball more. The Smith/Davis connection reminds me a lot of the Brees/Gates one because they are both emerging at about the same time.

The best part about this Niners offense is the potential. They are scoring and moving the ball and they have only been running this style offense for half the season. They will only get better as Smith gets more comfortable, the WRs learn their roles, and the O-line gets better as a unit.

With all that said, consider this my vote of confidence in keeping Raye next season. Considering the amount of change we have seen over the course of the year, the offense is starting to look legit.

exactly, skies the limit for our offense

Originally posted by DonJulio:

Originally posted by cNiner:

Originally posted by DonJulio:
I still hold to the belief that he didn't really struggle PER SE, just rushed into the most horrible of QB situations that no all-star rookie QB can be expected to succeed in.

still at it ! WOW

still ignorant! WOW!