smith and dropped passes

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by Jakemall:
"It came down like a punt, Coach"


Not so clutch imo.

You have got to agree the team did bail out hill with clutch catches


We did not talk about hill failing from dropped passes



There is a reason why smith suffers season in and out from dropped passes....

I don't know if its a lack of focus by wr / te or ball placement or just timeing.

Because Hill can only throw 5 yards... It's hard to miss 5 yards and less range routes. Anything 6 yards on up is way out of his range and he won't even throw it...

This.

LOL...seriously, Alex didn't get much practise time with the WRs..so they're not used to catching his throws as much as Hills. They're not used to getting throws 15 yards down the field that are threaded.

It comes down to Chemistry on many levels. Next season will be the real test imo. This season Alex has earned the starting position...next season will show that he's the future...or not. The offense shouldn't be tying his hands up like it has this season so he won't have any excuses....I hope.

[ Edited by Jakemall on Dec 9, 2009 at 11:26:54 ]

Originally posted by TJA85:

Originally posted by HaiGuise:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
I don't like smith....let's get that out of the way....


Right now for the first time in his career to me he looks like a possible building block.

His name should be in the mix when you talk about the future.

In the right system he is functional. We have the right oc and some weapons to start to build a nfl offense.

When its all said and done with the 2 season layoff ,180 mid season flip of the offense,injuries,and one of the main weapons being a rookie wr that missed the whole offseason and a good chunk of the regular season.....I can understand why the offense has not been consistant.


My main fear is why do we allways talk about droped passes and Alex smith.....

Every season over and over....does anyone really at this point think the drops are 100% not related to his timeing and ball placement?

When hill is in ....every one goes super clutch....and we talk about crazy one handers.

I wouldnt say everyone is clutch when Hill is in. My thing with Shaun is he doesnt have the arm strength that Alex has.

Softer ARM easier to catch theory?

It's not really like smith has. a gun....his ARM is at best average....

His arm is much, much stronger than Shaun Hill's. And his deep ball is 1,000 times better.

That is not true. So says here. Hill's THP is 83, while Alex is an 84.

Could have swore that Hill's rating was a lot less. Anyways, Smith's THP should be a little higher after an update.

pssh, i ramped it up to brett favre status anyway.

Blaming Alex for all of the drops is wacko. Just look at all of the circus catches the Packer and Saints receivers makes on less than perfect passes. The criticism of too much velocity on his passes are destroyed when looking at the lasers or rockets that Favre's and Elway's receivers have made in the past, leaving imprints of the ball on their chests and broken fingers. I agree with the poster who said that Sullivan has taken the football out of the receivers, having them become like robots and not reacting instinctively.

Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
ok another smith hater due to the fact smith might of creeped around with his girl. all this smith hate is just remarkably hilarious now. smith can throw 5 td passes, lead us in the playoff clinching gm, rip apart defenses in the playoffs and win a sb and STILL people will find a way to despise smith.

We're just WAY too spoiled when it comes to QB play. If Smith isn't instantly Joe Montana or Steve Young in their prime, he's not worth our time.

There are a lot of teams in the league that would be more than happy to have a QB playing at the level Smith has been lately.

and we were one of those teams just a few weeks ago..

I wouldn't say most drops are Smith's fault - not by a long shot - but his placement could certainly be better on some of his throws.

When a receiver has to dive or jump & spin around in mid-air just to get their hands on the ball, its pretty ridiculous to say "they got their hands on it, so they should have caught it" or "that hit him right in the hands". I'm not talking about VD letting the game winning TD bounce off his facemask (that's on him). I'm talking about the numerous other throws Alex has made that have turned our WR's into contortionists at times.

Its the receiver's job to catch the ball, definitely. Its also the QB's job to deliver a catchable ball (throw over the correct shoulder, lead his targets, etc).

When you have a group of receivers that have trouble adjusting to balls in mid-air combined with a QB that struggles with his ball placement, you're going to get a lot of drops. Pretending the issue lies only in one area (receivers or QB), not both, is silly.

Originally posted by Overkill:
I wouldn't say most drops are Smith's fault - not by a long shot - but his placement could certainly be better on some of his throws.

When a receiver has to dive or jump & spin around in mid-air just to get their hands on the ball, its pretty ridiculous to say "they got their hands on it, so they should have caught it" or "that hit him right in the hands". I'm not talking about VD letting the game winning TD bounce off his facemask (that's on him). I'm talking about the numerous other throws Alex has made that have turned our WR's into contortionists at times.

Its the receiver's job to catch the ball, definitely. Its also the QB's job to deliver a catchable ball (throw over the correct shoulder, lead his targets, etc).

When you have a group of receivers that have trouble adjusting to balls in mid-air combined with a QB that struggles with his ball placement, you're going to get a lot of drops. Pretending the issue lies only in one area (receivers or QB), not both, is silly.

On top of that, our receivers are young. You can't say Boldin this or Henderson that because those guys are experience veterans who are playing the game at a slower pace because they understand exactly what's going on. Young receivers run faster because they think they must in order to get open. The faster one runs, the harder he is trying and he's not relaxed which makes the catch even more difficult.

We are young and trying to move too fast no different than Smith rushing his last few throws.

Originally posted by HaiGuise:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
I don't like smith....let's get that out of the way....


Right now for the first time in his career to me he looks like a possible building block.

His name should be in the mix when you talk about the future.

In the right system he is functional. We have the right oc and some weapons to start to build a nfl offense.

When its all said and done with the 2 season layoff ,180 mid season flip of the offense,injuries,and one of the main weapons being a rookie wr that missed the whole offseason and a good chunk of the regular season.....I can understand why the offense has not been consistant.


My main fear is why do we allways talk about droped passes and Alex smith.....

Every season over and over....does anyone really at this point think the drops are 100% not related to his timeing and ball placement?

When hill is in ....every one goes super clutch....and we talk about crazy one handers.

I wouldnt say everyone is clutch when Hill is in. My thing with Shaun is he doesnt have the arm strength that Alex has.

Softer ARM easier to catch theory?

It's not really like smith has. a gun....his ARM is at best average....

His arm is much, much stronger than Shaun Hill's. And his deep ball is 1,000 times better.

That is not true. So says here. Hill's THP is 83, while Alex is an 84.

an ESPN video game is where you get your info from??????????

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Overkill:
I wouldn't say most drops are Smith's fault - not by a long shot - but his placement could certainly be better on some of his throws.

When a receiver has to dive or jump & spin around in mid-air just to get their hands on the ball, its pretty ridiculous to say "they got their hands on it, so they should have caught it" or "that hit him right in the hands". I'm not talking about VD letting the game winning TD bounce off his facemask (that's on him). I'm talking about the numerous other throws Alex has made that have turned our WR's into contortionists at times.

Its the receiver's job to catch the ball, definitely. Its also the QB's job to deliver a catchable ball (throw over the correct shoulder, lead his targets, etc).

When you have a group of receivers that have trouble adjusting to balls in mid-air combined with a QB that struggles with his ball placement, you're going to get a lot of drops. Pretending the issue lies only in one area (receivers or QB), not both, is silly.

On top of that, our receivers are young. You can't say Boldin this or Henderson that because those guys are experience veterans who are playing the game at a slower pace because they understand exactly what's going on. Young receivers run faster because they think they must in order to get open. The faster one runs, the harder he is trying and he's not relaxed which makes the catch even more difficult.

We are young and trying to move too fast no different than Smith rushing his last few throws.

they call it "chemistry" and its usually developed in training camp...

Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
Hill definitely throws a more catch-able ball than Smith. I think that's mostly because it lacks the same zip. Get someone to lob you 100 passes and then throw you 100 passes as hard as they can and see how many you catch.

Of course, accuracy is part of the equation too and I think Hill was more accurate than Smith as well - at least on the shorter routes. Smith still struggles a bit with hitting guys in stride on the shorter routes.

However, the problem with Hill was defenses started taking advantage of his weaker arm and that gives them more opportunity to jump routes and play more aggressive pass D. That's why Hill started to struggle more and more by the end of his playing time. No one was open because they would just jam the receivers and bring their coverage up.

Agree & hopefully most of this can be rectified with a full offseason together!

Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
Hill definitely throws a more catch-able ball than Smith. I think that's mostly because it lacks the same zip. Get someone to lob you 100 passes and then throw you 100 passes as hard as they can and see how many you catch.

Of course, accuracy is part of the equation too and I think Hill was more accurate than Smith as well - at least on the shorter routes. Smith still struggles a bit with hitting guys in stride on the shorter routes.

However, the problem with Hill was defenses started taking advantage of his weaker arm and that gives them more opportunity to jump routes and play more aggressive pass D. That's why Hill started to struggle more and more by the end of his playing time. No one was open because they would just jam the receivers and bring their coverage up.

Morgan to coach sing "it came down like a punt coach"
Hills lame ducks.....um no.

Originally posted by SFCH3DDERZ:

Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
Hill definitely throws a more catch-able ball than Smith. I think that's mostly because it lacks the same zip. Get someone to lob you 100 passes and then throw you 100 passes as hard as they can and see how many you catch.

Of course, accuracy is part of the equation too and I think Hill was more accurate than Smith as well - at least on the shorter routes. Smith still struggles a bit with hitting guys in stride on the shorter routes.

However, the problem with Hill was defenses started taking advantage of his weaker arm and that gives them more opportunity to jump routes and play more aggressive pass D. That's why Hill started to struggle more and more by the end of his playing time. No one was open because they would just jam the receivers and bring their coverage up.

Morgan to coach sing "it came down like a punt coach"
Hills lame ducks.....um no.

day late and a dollar short imo..but yeah.

So let me get this straight? His throws should not only be accurate but nice and fluffy so they massage the receivers hands when they touch it?

Seriously?

Let's not forget everyone, crabs is a rookie, and morgan is only on his second year. With some o-line help in the draft (plus the return of staley), our offense will be dynamic next year.
People seem to forget that the saints were inconsistent in the couple of years after that nfc championship game. Then they made a couple of tweaks to their secondary and...shazam!
We may be nowhere near the Saints now, but they are a perfect example of a team that was close but needed to plug some holes. The difference now between our losing teams of the past and the losing team this year is that they now pass the eyeball test. Any thinking fan can see this. Draft well and keep our coaching staff in place and watch this team take off next year.

Well here was my question to Dan Brown about the dropped passes and Smith.

10:52 [Comment From Mr G Mr G: ]
Hey Dan, the kids are actually standing by me and dont think you will respond, but please do if you can oK. Thanks. My question is, Granted Smith hasnt brought us back in the 4th, however, for the past few weeks, in those clutch situations, there have been drops. So is it necessarily fair to say he hasnt led us to wins. Because I just cant see a Moss, a Welker, Boldin, or TE gonzalez, drop clutch passes that are game changers. Smith has had more than he should of those, IMO. Friday December 11, 2009 10:52 Mr G


10:54 Dan Brown: Kids, get back to class. Don't forget the three Rs -- reading, writing and rushing the ball. Anway ... I think the 49ers as a team haven't learned how to handle life in the clutch. They lost a lot of games at the wire last year and are on the wrong side of the close calls again in 2010. For all of them -- Alex, Vernon Davis, the defense -- learning how to close things out is the next step in the evolution. The 49ers have known that since the days of Joe Montana. Friday December 11, 2009 10:54 Dan Brown

I think that quote hit the nail right on the head.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Our WR's and TE's just suck at catching.

When it hits you between the 4 and the 6 you are supposed to catch it.
When it hits you between the 8 and the 5 you are supposed to catch it.
When it hits you between the 1 and the 5 you are supposed to catch it.
When it hits you directly in the facemask you are supposed to catch it.

You are sounding like ZRF or Joecool trying to blame Alex for WR's and TE's having balls hit their hands and drop it. It's because of Alex...

Just for argum....Discussion sake anyone have a tally on how many CATCHABLE balls have been dropped with Smith at QB? I know I have seen a few in each game on 3rd downs alone