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Jimmy Rays Future
Jimmy Rays Future
Dec 7, 2009 at 8:58 AM
- GoreGoreGore
- 10HourChicken
- Posts: 54,071
Fired, in the past 3 games, Gore has rushed the ball for whopping 31 times.
Dec 7, 2009 at 8:58 AM
- SybErkRimInAL
- Veteran
- Posts: 59,184
why did we try passing the ball on the final drive with 50 seconds left instead of running to head to overtime?? I missed the game.
Dec 7, 2009 at 9:14 AM
- dj43
- Moderator
- Posts: 35,654
Jimmy Raye has proven himself incapable of coaching the game at the level now required in the NFL. He has three fatal flaws:
1. His offensive run blocking schemes are archaic. Even the Green Bay Packers of the '60s had more imagination and creativity than what Raye is running. With Raye, everything is straight up power. Each offensive lineman must win an individual battle for the play to succeed. Now if the defense overloads a single player, the play fails. There is no misdirection, very little trapping, no stretch plays, almost never an attempt to run wide, etc. All of these tactics are things that good running teams do all the time, but the 49ers never even try. Raye has an All Pro running back in Frank Gore and he hasn't figured out how to use him. I suggest he go back and look at the tapes from that dastardly egomaniac Mike Martz. HE seemed to be able to get Gore some yardage.
2. Raye is no more imaginative in his pass routes schemes either. The standard "hot read" routes that most good passing teams use do not seem to be in his book, nor are the slants and cuts that take advantage of teams that stack the box against the run. If teams are going to commit more defenders close to the LOS, there will be open space behind them, but Raye doesn't seem to realize that.
3. Raye's play sequencing does not set up plays for success. Good OCs will use one play, or a series of plays, to set up other plays. I have NEVER seen Raye's play selection or sequencing to this. He just seems to call plays one-at-a-time with no consideration for later situations. Gore's running ability should set up play-action but the blocking schemes don't allow Gore to have success so there is no deception with play action, and because there is no play action, the best option for pass protection for Smith is the "shotgun," which limits how Gore could be used.
I know this direction of thinking is not as sexy as blaming Frank Gore for a fumble or Alex Smith for not hitting Morgan on the Hail Mary, but it is the heart of why this offense is so unproductive. The team now has weapons it has not had in the past five years, yet the are not being utilized well at all due to the design of the offense.
So before you all go on ragging about Smith or Davis (I still don't like his route running or iron hands ) or whomever, look at the guy that is placing the pieces on the board.
The 49ers will NOT go to the playoffs as long as the OC does not understand how to utilize the talent he has. Don't blame Singletary's lack of offensive prowess or experience, that is why you hire a veteran guy. Raye SHOULD have both the background and ability to put a creative, varied offense on the field, and sell that offense to the HC. Raye can do neither.
[ Edited by dj43 on Dec 7, 2009 at 09:23:28 ]
1. His offensive run blocking schemes are archaic. Even the Green Bay Packers of the '60s had more imagination and creativity than what Raye is running. With Raye, everything is straight up power. Each offensive lineman must win an individual battle for the play to succeed. Now if the defense overloads a single player, the play fails. There is no misdirection, very little trapping, no stretch plays, almost never an attempt to run wide, etc. All of these tactics are things that good running teams do all the time, but the 49ers never even try. Raye has an All Pro running back in Frank Gore and he hasn't figured out how to use him. I suggest he go back and look at the tapes from that dastardly egomaniac Mike Martz. HE seemed to be able to get Gore some yardage.
2. Raye is no more imaginative in his pass routes schemes either. The standard "hot read" routes that most good passing teams use do not seem to be in his book, nor are the slants and cuts that take advantage of teams that stack the box against the run. If teams are going to commit more defenders close to the LOS, there will be open space behind them, but Raye doesn't seem to realize that.
3. Raye's play sequencing does not set up plays for success. Good OCs will use one play, or a series of plays, to set up other plays. I have NEVER seen Raye's play selection or sequencing to this. He just seems to call plays one-at-a-time with no consideration for later situations. Gore's running ability should set up play-action but the blocking schemes don't allow Gore to have success so there is no deception with play action, and because there is no play action, the best option for pass protection for Smith is the "shotgun," which limits how Gore could be used.
I know this direction of thinking is not as sexy as blaming Frank Gore for a fumble or Alex Smith for not hitting Morgan on the Hail Mary, but it is the heart of why this offense is so unproductive. The team now has weapons it has not had in the past five years, yet the are not being utilized well at all due to the design of the offense.
So before you all go on ragging about Smith or Davis (I still don't like his route running or iron hands ) or whomever, look at the guy that is placing the pieces on the board.
The 49ers will NOT go to the playoffs as long as the OC does not understand how to utilize the talent he has. Don't blame Singletary's lack of offensive prowess or experience, that is why you hire a veteran guy. Raye SHOULD have both the background and ability to put a creative, varied offense on the field, and sell that offense to the HC. Raye can do neither.
[ Edited by dj43 on Dec 7, 2009 at 09:23:28 ]
Dec 7, 2009 at 9:18 AM
- Jersey9er
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,972
Originally posted by ZRF80:
We have no choice. Since it takes Alex a very long time to learn a new offense, we are stuck with Raye.
NO dummy, we should have no choice because it would be the first time in almost 8 years, that we have the same OC coming back. What team are you watching?
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:05 AM
- Nes49
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,105
For the sake of consistency for this team...I would want Raye to stay. But if U can find an OC with a spread discipline & a more creative mind that can utilize ALL are offensive weapons then go for it.
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM
- susweel
- Hall of Nepal
- Posts: 120,270
Originally posted by kstolai:
Only reaon i would retain him is because having another OC would hurt our chances at continuity. Besides he ain't going anywhere.
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM
- 49Fever
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,682
Originally posted by kstolai:
Only reaon i would retain him is because having another OC would hurt our chances at continuity. Besides he ain't going anywhere.
YOU ARE WRONG my friend
Raye did one thing positive : he showed to us that the problem for alex isn't the perpetual change of OC but THE SYSTEM we play on offense
So the next OC (the quicker the better) should be someone who has the gun in mind and nobody else (unless we find ourselves with a premium OL but that won't happen)
You could ask why not keep raye then ? well this guy svcks at playcalling ...
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM
- FredFlintstone
- Veteran
- Posts: 45,711
Originally posted by susweel:Originally posted by kstolai:
Only reaon i would retain him is because having another OC would hurt our chances at continuity. Besides he ain't going anywhere.
in other words were screwed with another yr of inept offense
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:13 AM
- mrbadd1
- Info N/A
Originally posted by dj43:
Jimmy Raye has proven himself incapable of coaching the game at the level now required in the NFL. He has three fatal flaws:
1. His offensive run blocking schemes are archaic. Even the Green Bay Packers of the '60s had more imagination and creativity than what Raye is running. With Raye, everything is straight up power. Each offensive lineman must win an individual battle for the play to succeed. Now if the defense overloads a single player, the play fails. There is no misdirection, very little trapping, no stretch plays, almost never an attempt to run wide, etc. All of these tactics are things that good running teams do all the time, but the 49ers never even try. Raye has an All Pro running back in Frank Gore and he hasn't figured out how to use him. I suggest he go back and look at the tapes from that dastardly egomaniac Mike Martz. HE seemed to be able to get Gore some yardage.
2. Raye is no more imaginative in his pass routes schemes either. The standard "hot read" routes that most good passing teams use do not seem to be in his book, nor are the slants and cuts that take advantage of teams that stack the box against the run. If teams are going to commit more defenders close to the LOS, there will be open space behind them, but Raye doesn't seem to realize that.
3. Raye's play sequencing does not set up plays for success. Good OCs will use one play, or a series of plays, to set up other plays. I have NEVER seen Raye's play selection or sequencing to this. He just seems to call plays one-at-a-time with no consideration for later situations. Gore's running ability should set up play-action but the blocking schemes don't allow Gore to have success so there is no deception with play action, and because there is no play action, the best option for pass protection for Smith is the "shotgun," which limits how Gore could be used.
I know this direction of thinking is not as sexy as blaming Frank Gore for a fumble or Alex Smith for not hitting Morgan on the Hail Mary, but it is the heart of why this offense is so unproductive. The team now has weapons it has not had in the past five years, yet the are not being utilized well at all due to the design of the offense.
So before you all go on ragging about Smith or Davis (I still don't like his route running or iron hands ) or whomever, look at the guy that is placing the pieces on the board.
The 49ers will NOT go to the playoffs as long as the OC does not understand how to utilize the talent he has. Don't blame Singletary's lack of offensive prowess or experience, that is why you hire a veteran guy. Raye SHOULD have both the background and ability to put a creative, varied offense on the field, and sell that offense to the HC. Raye can do neither.
I think you can also question his situational play calling. That last offensive play for the 49ers should have been a run or at the very least a screen pass. The 49ers were not going to win the game in regulation at that point. They needed to try to get the first down or run some clock, not to take a chance on a low percentage pass down the field. Just bad.
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM
- LionHeartofGold
- Veteran
- Posts: 772
Whatever we have now is working. It's just that the players indivually must execute the plays. Like many zoners said, continuity is key at this time. We do not want Alex to learn yet another offensive scheme. Imagine N. Davis being put in this situation year in and year out. He'd literally never get on the field.
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:38 AM
- linkboy
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,442
Here's what we should do.
Move Raye to offensive assistant and promote Johnson to OC. This keeps contunity in place (as both coaches stay, which will help Alex).
Move Raye to offensive assistant and promote Johnson to OC. This keeps contunity in place (as both coaches stay, which will help Alex).
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:42 AM
- BobS
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,630
Need to fire Raye, along with his boss and most of the coaching staff. The core of this team is young enough it can survive learning a new system. All I want for Christmas is the Yorks to open the check book and get real NFL quality front office help and a coaching staff that other teams would want, not the low budget garbage we have.
Dec 7, 2009 at 10:46 AM
- dj43
- Moderator
- Posts: 35,654
Originally posted by mrbadd1:Originally posted by dj43:
Jimmy Raye has proven himself incapable of coaching the game at the level now required in the NFL. He has three fatal flaws:
1. His offensive run blocking schemes are archaic. Even the Green Bay Packers of the '60s had more imagination and creativity than what Raye is running. With Raye, everything is straight up power. Each offensive lineman must win an individual battle for the play to succeed. Now if the defense overloads a single player, the play fails. There is no misdirection, very little trapping, no stretch plays, almost never an attempt to run wide, etc. All of these tactics are things that good running teams do all the time, but the 49ers never even try. Raye has an All Pro running back in Frank Gore and he hasn't figured out how to use him. I suggest he go back and look at the tapes from that dastardly egomaniac Mike Martz. HE seemed to be able to get Gore some yardage.
2. Raye is no more imaginative in his pass routes schemes either. The standard "hot read" routes that most good passing teams use do not seem to be in his book, nor are the slants and cuts that take advantage of teams that stack the box against the run. If teams are going to commit more defenders close to the LOS, there will be open space behind them, but Raye doesn't seem to realize that.
3. Raye's play sequencing does not set up plays for success. Good OCs will use one play, or a series of plays, to set up other plays. I have NEVER seen Raye's play selection or sequencing to this. He just seems to call plays one-at-a-time with no consideration for later situations. Gore's running ability should set up play-action but the blocking schemes don't allow Gore to have success so there is no deception with play action, and because there is no play action, the best option for pass protection for Smith is the "shotgun," which limits how Gore could be used.
I know this direction of thinking is not as sexy as blaming Frank Gore for a fumble or Alex Smith for not hitting Morgan on the Hail Mary, but it is the heart of why this offense is so unproductive. The team now has weapons it has not had in the past five years, yet the are not being utilized well at all due to the design of the offense.
So before you all go on ragging about Smith or Davis (I still don't like his route running or iron hands ) or whomever, look at the guy that is placing the pieces on the board.
The 49ers will NOT go to the playoffs as long as the OC does not understand how to utilize the talent he has. Don't blame Singletary's lack of offensive prowess or experience, that is why you hire a veteran guy. Raye SHOULD have both the background and ability to put a creative, varied offense on the field, and sell that offense to the HC. Raye can do neither.
I think you can also question his situational play calling. That last offensive play for the 49ers should have been a run or at the very least a screen pass. The 49ers were not going to win the game in regulation at that point. They needed to try to get the first down or run some clock, not to take a chance on a low percentage pass down the field. Just bad.
Raye is just a poor play caller. PERIOD.
Singletary talked himself into this "imposing our will" mentality and was too inexperienced offensively to understand it is not that easy.
Dec 7, 2009 at 11:13 AM
- BurritoSmuggler
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,143
with alex and crabs.. and d-love and vd.. how its all started to come together, yes, he will be retained. things are really starting to come together on offense. im just a little shocked that our defense has been so inconsistant. lately, weve been losing because of our defense, in my opinion.
Dec 7, 2009 at 11:30 AM
- dj43
- Moderator
- Posts: 35,654
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
with alex and crabs.. and d-love and vd.. how its all started to come together, yes, he will be retained. things are really starting to come together on offense. im just a little shocked that our defense has been so inconsistant. lately, weve been losing because of our defense, in my opinion.
14 points total and All Pro Frank Gore only getting the rock 9 times is NOT "coming together." IMO. That is on Raye and he goes.