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Flaws in Raye's Philosophy

Warning: long post.

I've been doing some thinking about something that Raye said a few weeks ago.

Raye: “The element of the 12 personnel and the 11 personnel, it doesn’t lock the box in some cases. But there aren’t many defensive coaches we face, where if we eliminate the lead blocker, where we have seven they have eight, so if we go to six they have seven. So you still have the same problem. They are not going to let you outnumber them in the box."

The issue that I have with this thinking is that while the offense will always be outnumbered in the box (except for Wildcat), it is a harder task to successfully block 6 people than it is to successfully block 8 people.

In using 7 players to block 8, there's a greater chance of a player not making their block, hence there's a greater chance of the play failing since you require so many events to occur simultaneously.

Another flaw in this philosophy is that when we're using 7 to block 8, it absolutely SCREAMS run. It also places limits on the variety of plays that Raye can call. Whereas when we remove the lead blocker and go to 3 WRs, there is a good balance between what the offense can do.

Raye feels that since there's always going to be n+1 defenders in the box, we may as well attempt to get a hat on everybody and run. This is where Raye chalks up the failure of the play to "execution".

I also feel that Raye severely overrates Walker. Raye feels that Walker forces the defense to choose whether go to nickel or heavy. The problem with this thinking is that Walker is a mediocre blocker. So when the defense does choose to go nickel, it's not as such a clear cut advantage as Raye imagines.

-9fA
Raye is bad but not as bad as sing. At least he knows to throw the damn ball to Vernon Davis. Other OC's we have had make him stay in to block.
I feel like we never run play action except with passes to the fullback.
Interesting take. I tend to agree with most of what you said.

I really don't think Raye thinks that hard about the numbers game and the probability of there being more error with more events involved but it absolutely makes sense.

I feel like Singletary has a strong hand in forcing Raye's game-planning so even if Raye understands that our formations are dictating our success, Singletary sure as hell doesn't. Raye seems like such a puppet. He wants to keep his OC job and so he does whatever the hell Sing tells him.

But back to the topic...I also believe that 7 vs. 6 forces the defense to be more transparent inside the box. When there are 8 guys crowding the line, it's hard to tell who's coming and who isn't...Alex seems to look more at the rush then at his WRs. Couple that with the fact that our O-Line can't seem to understand who to block against certain blitz packages, and you'll get negative pass plays and incompletions.

With less guys in the box (even if Alex is behind C and has 3 or 4 wide), I think it's a lot easier to see who's blitzing and who isn't. This has been discussed ad nauseam but I really think it's the issue with our offense/Alex.
Interesting post, was there an error regarding blocking 7 w/ 6 being harder than 8/7? May have misread the paragraph.

The W/C can use a full backfield but both backs are good recievers (or should be). That can confuse the D and overwhelm the DBs if both come out on routes. Or, they can both stay in to block or...

I agree with your criticism of Raye though because his offense does not seem to be very creative, or is it the playcallling. An article two weeks ago talked about Smith and Hill trying to insert some plays that would give Smith more flexibility...roll outs, etc. Perhaps they can help open up the game for the team and force Raye's hand.

Singletary is a typical D guy and doesn't seem to appreciate the nuances of O. Smashmouth football equates to predictable playcalling so far, but using the spread may help. Will he listen and learn? Can he analyze success and realize that putting a square peg in a round hole will not be effective? Hope so!
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Raye is bad but not as bad as sing. At least he knows to throw the damn ball to Vernon Davis. Other OC's we have had make him stay in to block.

Why do you find it necessary to bash Singletary in every one of your posts without providing any reason? On another note, I agree with you that Raye is doing a good job of getting the ball to Vernon.
Originally posted by pwilly52:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Raye is bad but not as bad as sing. At least he knows to throw the damn ball to Vernon Davis. Other OC's we have had make him stay in to block.

Why do you find it necessary to bash Singletary in every one of your posts without providing any reason? On another note, I agree with you that Raye is doing a good job of getting the ball to Vernon.

because he has the right to, it's called freedom of speech.


Maybe instead of you guys attacking SD all the time, take some time and read his posts, the guy actually knows what he's talking about.

He's bashing Singletary because he's done a HORRIBLE job at coaching this team this year, and he's pointing it out.

We've run too many good posters off this Forum because they called it like they saw it, and it needs to stop.
Originally posted by King49er:
Originally posted by pwilly52:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Raye is bad but not as bad as sing. At least he knows to throw the damn ball to Vernon Davis. Other OC's we have had make him stay in to block.

Why do you find it necessary to bash Singletary in every one of your posts without providing any reason? On another note, I agree with you that Raye is doing a good job of getting the ball to Vernon.

because he has the right to, it's called freedom of speech.


Maybe instead of you guys attacking SD all the time, take some time and read his posts, the guy actually knows what he's talking about.

He's bashing Singletary because he's done a HORRIBLE job at coaching this team this year, and he's pointing it out.

We've run too many good posters off this Forum because they called it like they saw it, and it needs to stop.

First of all, I don't think SD would ever go anywhere. That guy stubborn. Secondly, I do feel like Sing is not coaching well at all this year. He has several questionable challenges, and likes to bark a lot at almost anyone in his immediate proximity. He is a rookie HC, but he is really failing to see how abysmal our team is as a whole. Any more wins will just be a smoke screen, unless we actually pull our heads out of our arsses...
Originally posted by King49er:
Originally posted by pwilly52:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Raye is bad but not as bad as sing. At least he knows to throw the damn ball to Vernon Davis. Other OC's we have had make him stay in to block.

Why do you find it necessary to bash Singletary in every one of your posts without providing any reason? On another note, I agree with you that Raye is doing a good job of getting the ball to Vernon.

because he has the right to, it's called freedom of speech.


Maybe instead of you guys attacking SD all the time, take some time and read his posts, the guy actually knows what he's talking about.

He's bashing Singletary because he's done a HORRIBLE job at coaching this team this year, and he's pointing it out.

We've run too many good posters off this Forum because they called it like they saw it, and it needs to stop.

All I'm asking for is a little explanation. Don't I also have the freedom to ask him a question? This thread isn't about Singletary, so bringing him up to bash him is just plain stupid. Also, don't act like I didn't read his post. I didn't say much, but I agreed with him saying that Raye is utilizing Davis.
[ Edited by pwilly52 on Nov 28, 2009 at 1:21 PM ]
Originally posted by King49er:
Originally posted by pwilly52:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Raye is bad but not as bad as sing. At least he knows to throw the damn ball to Vernon Davis. Other OC's we have had make him stay in to block.

Why do you find it necessary to bash Singletary in every one of your posts without providing any reason? On another note, I agree with you that Raye is doing a good job of getting the ball to Vernon.

because he has the right to, it's called freedom of speech.


Maybe instead of you guys attacking SD all the time, take some time and read his posts, the guy actually knows what he's talking about.

He's bashing Singletary because he's done a HORRIBLE job at coaching this team this year, and he's pointing it out.

We've run too many good posters off this Forum because they called it like they saw it, and it needs to stop.

Free speech doesn't apply to football forums.

It's why people get banned.

-9fA
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Interesting take. I tend to agree with most of what you said.

I really don't think Raye thinks that hard about the numbers game and the probability of there being more error with more events involved but it absolutely makes sense.

I feel like Singletary has a strong hand in forcing Raye's game-planning so even if Raye understands that our formations are dictating our success, Singletary sure as hell doesn't. Raye seems like such a puppet. He wants to keep his OC job and so he does whatever the hell Sing tells him.

But back to the topic...I also believe that 7 vs. 6 forces the defense to be more transparent inside the box. When there are 8 guys crowding the line, it's hard to tell who's coming and who isn't...Alex seems to look more at the rush then at his WRs. Couple that with the fact that our O-Line can't seem to understand who to block against certain blitz packages, and you'll get negative pass plays and incompletions.

With less guys in the box (even if Alex is behind C and has 3 or 4 wide), I think it's a lot easier to see who's blitzing and who isn't. This has been discussed ad nauseam but I really think it's the issue with our offense/Alex.

You're probably right.

Singletary had a certain philosophy and he went out and brought an OC who could most closely match what he had in mind for an NFL offense.

It makes me wonder whether or not we gameplan for opponents. Week in and week out, I see the same bland formations and playcalling.

-9fA
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Interesting take. I tend to agree with most of what you said.

I really don't think Raye thinks that hard about the numbers game and the probability of there being more error with more events involved but it absolutely makes sense.

I feel like Singletary has a strong hand in forcing Raye's game-planning so even if Raye understands that our formations are dictating our success, Singletary sure as hell doesn't. Raye seems like such a puppet. He wants to keep his OC job and so he does whatever the hell Sing tells him.

But back to the topic...I also believe that 7 vs. 6 forces the defense to be more transparent inside the box. When there are 8 guys crowding the line, it's hard to tell who's coming and who isn't...Alex seems to look more at the rush then at his WRs. Couple that with the fact that our O-Line can't seem to understand who to block against certain blitz packages, and you'll get negative pass plays and incompletions.

With less guys in the box (even if Alex is behind C and has 3 or 4 wide), I think it's a lot easier to see who's blitzing and who isn't. This has been discussed ad nauseam but I really think it's the issue with our offense/Alex.


I agree with this a whole lot.
Raye is probably afraid to lose his job after one year of being employed by this franchise and I can only wonder why. This probably relates to him being so conservative and afraid to take risks. As for Singletary, he maybe stubborn but he is not stupid, so all of you haters get off the coolaide. Give Singletary another offseason and evaluate him this time next season.
Originally posted by King49er:
Originally posted by pwilly52:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Raye is bad but not as bad as sing. At least he knows to throw the damn ball to Vernon Davis. Other OC's we have had make him stay in to block.

Why do you find it necessary to bash Singletary in every one of your posts without providing any reason? On another note, I agree with you that Raye is doing a good job of getting the ball to Vernon.

because he has the right to, it's called freedom of speech.


Maybe instead of you guys attacking SD all the time, take some time and read his posts, the guy actually knows what he's talking about.

He's bashing Singletary because he's done a HORRIBLE job at coaching this team this year, and he's pointing it out.

We've run too many good posters off this Forum because they called it like they saw it, and it needs to stop.

Wile I don't agree with SD about most things, he is right about Sing. So far he less a coach and more a motivational speaker. He needs to get his s**t together, and start playing to the teams strengths and not what "he wants" the teams strengths to be!
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Interesting take. I tend to agree with most of what you said.

I really don't think Raye thinks that hard about the numbers game and the probability of there being more error with more events involved but it absolutely makes sense.

I feel like Singletary has a strong hand in forcing Raye's game-planning so even if Raye understands that our formations are dictating our success, Singletary sure as hell doesn't. Raye seems like such a puppet. He wants to keep his OC job and so he does whatever the hell Sing tells him.

But back to the topic...I also believe that 7 vs. 6 forces the defense to be more transparent inside the box. When there are 8 guys crowding the line, it's hard to tell who's coming and who isn't...Alex seems to look more at the rush then at his WRs. Couple that with the fact that our O-Line can't seem to understand who to block against certain blitz packages, and you'll get negative pass plays and incompletions.

With less guys in the box (even if Alex is behind C and has 3 or 4 wide), I think it's a lot easier to see who's blitzing and who isn't. This has been discussed ad nauseam but I really think it's the issue with our offense/Alex.

You're probably right.

Singletary had a certain philosophy and he went out and brought an OC who could most closely match what he had in mind for an NFL offense.

It makes me wonder whether or not we gameplan for opponents. Week in and week out, I see the same bland formations and playcalling.

-9fA

I think I tend to agree. Sounds like we don't gameplan for anyone.. Seems like we just go in thinking we can run over everyone all day & we can't even get a few inches when we need them.