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Offensive Coaching Failures: Shifts, Audibles, etc.

Someone link this thread to Singletary. PLEASE.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Good article by advanced NFL stats. Their study shows that teams run too often on first down. The 49ers are probably a big culprit.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/11/offenses-run-too-often-on-1st-down.html

Nope, it might surprise you but we're 7th in the league, throwing 53% of the time on 1st down. (6th paragraph)

The problem is pretty simple. Our execution is horrible, so we end up in a ton of 2nd and longs, which is pretty much a guaranteed run play, which predictably gets stuffed, and results in 3rd and long.

I don't think first down running is an issue. Our problem is second down running. Balancing run and pass on first down, that's fine. But we run way too often on second down. Often making ourselves have to pick up 3rd and 8 or longer.

Ya, if there is a down and situation where we get way too conservative, it's on 2nd and long. I think sando on the espn nfc west blog had some brutal 2nd down stats on us earlier this year. I'll see if I can find it.
[ Edited by znk916 on Nov 26, 2009 at 6:33 PM ]
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Good article by advanced NFL stats. Their study shows that teams run too often on first down. The 49ers are probably a big culprit.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/11/offenses-run-too-often-on-1st-down.html

Nope, it might surprise you but we're 7th in the league, throwing 53% of the time on 1st down. (6th paragraph)

The problem is pretty simple. Our execution is horrible, so we end up in a ton of 2nd and longs, which is pretty much a guaranteed run play, which predictably gets stuffed, and results in 3rd and long.

I don't think first down running is an issue. Our problem is second down running. Balancing run and pass on first down, that's fine. But we run way too often on second down. Often making ourselves have to pick up 3rd and 8 or longer.

Ya, if there is a down and situation where we get way too conservative, it's on 2nd and long. I think sando on the espn nfc west blog had some brutal 2nd down stats on us earlier this year. I'll see if I can find it.

It's seems Raye's plan each drive is to get "third and manageable" with each set of downs, which is a revolting plan. Our best chance to get into third and manageable in the first place is to throw on second down, especially when we're forced back by a false start or holding, putting us into 2nd and long. Because when Gore only gets two or three yards, then we're stuck with 3rd and 12 or even more..

How long does it take to recognize this and adjust?
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Good article by advanced NFL stats. Their study shows that teams run too often on first down. The 49ers are probably a big culprit.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/11/offenses-run-too-often-on-1st-down.html

Nope, it might surprise you but we're 7th in the league, throwing 53% of the time on 1st down. (6th paragraph)

The problem is pretty simple. Our execution is horrible, so we end up in a ton of 2nd and longs, which is pretty much a guaranteed run play, which predictably gets stuffed, and results in 3rd and long.

I don't think first down running is an issue. Our problem is second down running. Balancing run and pass on first down, that's fine. But we run way too often on second down. Often making ourselves have to pick up 3rd and 8 or longer.

Ya, if there is a down and situation where we get way too conservative, it's on 2nd and long. I think sando on the espn nfc west blog had some brutal 2nd down stats on us earlier this year. I'll see if I can find it.

It's seems Raye's plan each drive is to get "third and manageable" with each set of downs, which is a revolting plan. Our best chance to get into third and manageable in the first place is to throw on second down, especially when we're forced back by a false start or holding, putting us into 2nd and long. Because when Gore only gets two or three yards, then we're stuck with 3rd and 12 or even more..

How long does it take to recognize this and adjust?

I believe it's called 'playcalling not to lose'. The mindset is to chew up small chunks of yardage at a time, therefore using up clock and trying to win with a score like 10-6.

Our running game is severely hampered by a poor o-line and our defense isn't that outstanding.

We need to score all the points we can and be aggressive from start to finish. This nickel and dime crap is not going to get it done. The sooner they realize this the better.

For once I would like to see them get to 2nd and short, then take a shot down the field. Not what everyone expects them to do, which is hand it off to Norris on ANY short-yardage situation. Ridiculous.
  • Steve
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Raye was hired to be the "yes" man for Singletary. He has had a passing team in the past. We all know that we need some of both passing and running and each game dictates what is needed. "backontop's" remark about Raye having Alzheimers was unthinking and stupid. If backontop had someone in his family with Alzheimers he would know that is a stupid and unfeeling remark. If he wants to belittle Raye, that is fine, but not in a way to insult others. Doesn't matter if he has over 6000 posts, Being a dumb ass and not thinking of anyone but himself when posting is still what it is.
Found this answer and question kind of intersting;

Comment From Kevin Kevin: ] QUESTION
To expand of Frustrated in NJ's comment: Everyone seemed to throw Smith and the O under the bus after the Green Bay game...yet the defense looked to be the weak link. I know the three and outs don't help but Rodgers had a great GAME in the first half. Chicken or the Egg? Offense or Defense Friday November 27, 2009 10:23 Kevin

ANSWER
10:25 Dan Brown: Chicken or laying an egg? I think the defense has really skirted a lot of blame, and I'm pleading guilty to ignorning the problem. The supposed top-5 defense has allowed 300 passers in five of 10 games this season, and even the run defense has slipped lately against Chris Johnson and Ryan Grant. It's a problem because the 49ers are essentially built to win games 13-6. They're not built to win shoot outs. So Kevin and New Jersey, expect more focus on the defense soon ...

[Comment From Frustrated fan from NJFrustrated fan from NJ: ] Question
Hey Dan how are you? Everyone seems fixiated on Alex and the offense, my biggest concern is the defense. We were suppose to be a top 5 defense before the season started according to some players and coaches. We are far from it, is mausky getting out-coached? what gives? What happen to our dominating defense from the 1st 4 games of the season?

Friday November 27, 2009 10:09 Frustrated fan from NJ--Answer
10:11 Dan Brown: Hi, frustrated fan. I agree. I'm among those who has fixated too much on the offense, which means the defense has gotten a free pass. It takes both sides of the ball to fall behind 21-0 (Houston) and 23-3 (Green Bay). Patrick Willis said the 49ers would be a top 5 defense, maybe even No. 1. Are they getting outcoached? Sometimes. And sometimes it's just poor execution. They planned all week to stop the Packers receivers after the catch, then Greg Jennings runs through the defense for a 64-yard score.
[ Edited by Jersey9er on Nov 27, 2009 at 10:33 AM ]
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Good article by advanced NFL stats. Their study shows that teams run too often on first down. The 49ers are probably a big culprit.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/11/offenses-run-too-often-on-1st-down.html

Nope, it might surprise you but we're 7th in the league, throwing 53% of the time on 1st down. (6th paragraph)

The problem is pretty simple. Our execution is horrible, so we end up in a ton of 2nd and longs, which is pretty much a guaranteed run play, which predictably gets stuffed, and results in 3rd and long.

I don't think first down running is an issue. Our problem is second down running. Balancing run and pass on first down, that's fine. But we run way too often on second down. Often making ourselves have to pick up 3rd and 8 or longer.

Ya, if there is a down and situation where we get way too conservative, it's on 2nd and long. I think sando on the espn nfc west blog had some brutal 2nd down stats on us earlier this year. I'll see if I can find it.

It's seems Raye's plan each drive is to get "third and manageable" with each set of downs, which is a revolting plan. Our best chance to get into third and manageable in the first place is to throw on second down, especially when we're forced back by a false start or holding, putting us into 2nd and long. Because when Gore only gets two or three yards, then we're stuck with 3rd and 12 or even more..

How long does it take to recognize this and adjust?

I believe it's called 'playcalling not to lose'. The mindset is to chew up small chunks of yardage at a time, therefore using up clock and trying to win with a score like 10-6.

Our running game is severely hampered by a poor o-line and our defense isn't that outstanding.

We need to score all the points we can and be aggressive from start to finish. This nickel and dime crap is not going to get it done. The sooner they realize this the better.

For once I would like to see them get to 2nd and short, then take a shot down the field. Not what everyone expects them to do, which is hand it off to Norris on ANY short-yardage situation. Ridiculous.
Bill Walsh had a very interesting take on "power-running, control-the-clock" teams versus teams that can throw the ball well.

Walsh made two observations:

1. The risk of being intercepted on a passing play is no less devastating than fumbling of a running play. In fact, he even observed that on many picks, the field position switch is not as bad as on a fumble.

2. A running team can keep the ball for 15 plays using 10 minutes off the clock and wind up kicking a 29 yard field goal, only to have the passing team come on to score a touchdown in 7 plays or less, using less than 4 minutes. The running team then comes on to try to drive the length of the field again, and the odds of doing that time after time are NOT in favor of the running team.

His conclusion was that a winning team must balance both but MUST be able to throw the ball well in a variety of situations and scores if they are to win consistently.

The genius of Bill Walsh!
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Good article by advanced NFL stats. Their study shows that teams run too often on first down. The 49ers are probably a big culprit.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/11/offenses-run-too-often-on-1st-down.html

Nope, it might surprise you but we're 7th in the league, throwing 53% of the time on 1st down. (6th paragraph)

The problem is pretty simple. Our execution is horrible, so we end up in a ton of 2nd and longs, which is pretty much a guaranteed run play, which predictably gets stuffed, and results in 3rd and long.

I don't think first down running is an issue. Our problem is second down running. Balancing run and pass on first down, that's fine. But we run way too often on second down. Often making ourselves have to pick up 3rd and 8 or longer.

Ya, if there is a down and situation where we get way too conservative, it's on 2nd and long. I think sando on the espn nfc west blog had some brutal 2nd down stats on us earlier this year. I'll see if I can find it.

It's seems Raye's plan each drive is to get "third and manageable" with each set of downs, which is a revolting plan. Our best chance to get into third and manageable in the first place is to throw on second down, especially when we're forced back by a false start or holding, putting us into 2nd and long. Because when Gore only gets two or three yards, then we're stuck with 3rd and 12 or even more..

How long does it take to recognize this and adjust?

I believe it's called 'playcalling not to lose'. The mindset is to chew up small chunks of yardage at a time, therefore using up clock and trying to win with a score like 10-6.

Our running game is severely hampered by a poor o-line and our defense isn't that outstanding.

We need to score all the points we can and be aggressive from start to finish. This nickel and dime crap is not going to get it done. The sooner they realize this the better.

For once I would like to see them get to 2nd and short, then take a shot down the field. Not what everyone expects them to do, which is hand it off to Norris on ANY short-yardage situation. Ridiculous.
Bill Walsh had a very interesting take on "power-running, control-the-clock" teams versus teams that can throw the ball well.

Walsh made two observations:

1. The risk of being intercepted on a passing play is no less devastating than fumbling of a running play. In fact, he even observed that on many picks, the field position switch is not as bad as on a fumble.

2. A running team can keep the ball for 15 plays using 10 minutes off the clock and wind up kicking a 29 yard field goal, only to have the passing team come on to score a touchdown in 7 plays or less, using less than 4 minutes. The running team then comes on to try to drive the length of the field again, and the odds of doing that time after time are NOT in favor of the running team.

His conclusion was that a winning team must balance both but MUST be able to throw the ball well in a variety of situations and scores if they are to win consistently.

The genius of Bill Walsh!

Geez man. Wish we had someone with common sense like that. Seems like something an amateur would understand. Ugh...so irritating this coaching staff. I hope we come out shooting against JAX. Sht..if anything do it for some entertainment for the home crowd.
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by znk916:
Originally posted by Schulzy:
Good article by advanced NFL stats. Their study shows that teams run too often on first down. The 49ers are probably a big culprit.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/11/offenses-run-too-often-on-1st-down.html

Nope, it might surprise you but we're 7th in the league, throwing 53% of the time on 1st down. (6th paragraph)

The problem is pretty simple. Our execution is horrible, so we end up in a ton of 2nd and longs, which is pretty much a guaranteed run play, which predictably gets stuffed, and results in 3rd and long.

I don't think first down running is an issue. Our problem is second down running. Balancing run and pass on first down, that's fine. But we run way too often on second down. Often making ourselves have to pick up 3rd and 8 or longer.

Ya, if there is a down and situation where we get way too conservative, it's on 2nd and long. I think sando on the espn nfc west blog had some brutal 2nd down stats on us earlier this year. I'll see if I can find it.

It's seems Raye's plan each drive is to get "third and manageable" with each set of downs, which is a revolting plan. Our best chance to get into third and manageable in the first place is to throw on second down, especially when we're forced back by a false start or holding, putting us into 2nd and long. Because when Gore only gets two or three yards, then we're stuck with 3rd and 12 or even more..

How long does it take to recognize this and adjust?

I believe it's called 'playcalling not to lose'. The mindset is to chew up small chunks of yardage at a time, therefore using up clock and trying to win with a score like 10-6.

Our running game is severely hampered by a poor o-line and our defense isn't that outstanding.

We need to score all the points we can and be aggressive from start to finish. This nickel and dime crap is not going to get it done. The sooner they realize this the better.

For once I would like to see them get to 2nd and short, then take a shot down the field. Not what everyone expects them to do, which is hand it off to Norris on ANY short-yardage situation. Ridiculous.
Bill Walsh had a very interesting take on "power-running, control-the-clock" teams versus teams that can throw the ball well.

Walsh made two observations:

1. The risk of being intercepted on a passing play is no less devastating than fumbling of a running play. In fact, he even observed that on many picks, the field position switch is not as bad as on a fumble.

2. A running team can keep the ball for 15 plays using 10 minutes off the clock and wind up kicking a 29 yard field goal, only to have the passing team come on to score a touchdown in 7 plays or less, using less than 4 minutes. The running team then comes on to try to drive the length of the field again, and the odds of doing that time after time are NOT in favor of the running team.

His conclusion was that a winning team must balance both but MUST be able to throw the ball well in a variety of situations and scores if they are to win consistently.

The genius of Bill Walsh!

Geez man. Wish we had someone with common sense like that. Seems like something an amateur would understand. Ugh...so irritating this coaching staff. I hope we come out shooting against JAX. Sht..if anything do it for some entertainment for the home crowd.

It's common sense now, but then it was pure innovation. Walsh ran when the defense expected pass. He passed when the defense expected run. Then there was no defense for Walsh's offense. I am in favor of a ball-control offense, but there has to be some creativity thrown in too. Defenses are too smart nowadays to fall for this run-run-pass crap, even when the execution is decent.

I'm not saying Raye needs Walsh-type innovation, that's near impossible. What I am saying is when the defense stacks the box when Smith is under center, audible and spread it out, or playaction to a quick slant. When the D is playing off the recievers, put one in motion and run a toss or a sweep. This ain't friggin rocket science for Christ sake.