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Offensive Coaching Failures: Shifts, Audibles, etc.

Raye can't get to creative due to his alzheimers
Now take a look at a set from a second half play when we spread them out. Notice they were still blitzing the QB in the second half, shown here.




Since we had them backing off to prevent the big play, underneath spaces for routes opened up. In addition, look at the TD play where we DID send Gore in motion to the outside. On this play, they blitzed two defenders, shown below in the second shot.


Niner Talk could use more of these types of threads.

Most threads on here show an in-depth lack of understanding for the game. I'm tired of people working so hard to assign blame, without actually knowing or even caring what the actual problem is.

I do not believe the staff is utilizing it's weapons effectively at all.

Asside from an o-line that stinks and gets zero push off the LOS, so many of this team's offensive failures directly relate to an extreme lack of creativity, and this thread is scratching the surface of why that is AND what could be done to perhaps rectify some of those issues. I will enjoy reading more.

If we can get a defensive scheme analysis going, we'd be set.

Good job.
  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Now take a look at a set from a second half play when we spread them out. Notice they were still blitzing the QB in the second half, shown here.

Yup. They blitzed up until the last TD drive when it was straight 4 man rush.

Quote:

Since we had them backing off to prevent the big play, underneath spaces for routes opened up. In addition, look at the TD play where we DID send Gore in motion to the outside. On this play, they blitzed two defenders, shown below in the second shot.

That's the benefit of opening it up. You get players back 7 or 8 yards off the line of scrimmage so you can run crossing patterns for chunks of yardage at a time, just like GB did to us the 1st half.
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Now take a look at a set from a second half play when we spread them out. Notice they were still blitzing the QB in the second half, shown here.

Yup. They blitzed up until the last TD drive when it was straight 4 man rush.

Quote:

Since we had them backing off to prevent the big play, underneath spaces for routes opened up. In addition, look at the TD play where we DID send Gore in motion to the outside. On this play, they blitzed two defenders, shown below in the second shot.

That's the benefit of opening it up. You get players back 7 or 8 yards off the line of scrimmage so you can run crossing patterns for chunks of yardage at a time, just like GB did to us the 1st half.

Exactly. It's not that hard to understand. There are a bevy of easy adjustments that could be made, but we do absolutely NOTHING. And that's what absolutely kills me. That I as a fan, can see these things, yet all I can do is sit here and watch this tortuous activity continue where we smash our heads into a wall basically, with what we're doing.

The players see it. I see it.

Here's another example I drew up. We start out with a simple Pro-Set, with two backs -- Gore and Robinson would work great. Motion one of the backs into the slot. Both Gore and M-Rob are great receivers, but both can obviously run well.

Having two backs and motioning one out now makes it very difficult to know if they intend to run here, or pass. It could be a play fake, it could be a pitch, a draw, a quick screen to the motioned back, or the QB could drop back and the remaining RB picks up the blitz. You could even direct snap to the remaining RB... So many possibilities with one little formation set-up such as this...


[ Edited by OnTheClock on Nov 25, 2009 at 7:18 PM ]
Originally posted by znk916:
THANK GOD FOR BRIAN JENNINGS



I don't find this funny and I wish you would stop with the Brian Jennings to God compairson's.
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Now take a look at a set from a second half play when we spread them out. Notice they were still blitzing the QB in the second half, shown here.

Yup. They blitzed up until the last TD drive when it was straight 4 man rush.

Quote:

Since we had them backing off to prevent the big play, underneath spaces for routes opened up. In addition, look at the TD play where we DID send Gore in motion to the outside. On this play, they blitzed two defenders, shown below in the second shot.

That's the benefit of opening it up. You get players back 7 or 8 yards off the line of scrimmage so you can run crossing patterns for chunks of yardage at a time, just like GB did to us the 1st half.

Like you say, when the DB's back off, a crossing pattern to Davis could and most likely would yield mucho YAC.

I remember a play a couple years ago(maybe not very accurately), I believe it was opening day '06@ Arizona where Smith took the snap from under center then rolled out right(strong side).....VD ran a shallow cross toward the left sideline and Smith threw across his body to Vernon after the D commited to the play. Vernon was wide open and if I remeber right took it some 40 yards for his first TD.

That was an innovative, yet simple play that caught the defense off guard and once the catch was made was virtually undefendable.

We need more of that.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Now take a look at a set from a second half play when we spread them out. Notice they were still blitzing the QB in the second half, shown here.

Yup. They blitzed up until the last TD drive when it was straight 4 man rush.

Quote:

Since we had them backing off to prevent the big play, underneath spaces for routes opened up. In addition, look at the TD play where we DID send Gore in motion to the outside. On this play, they blitzed two defenders, shown below in the second shot.

That's the benefit of opening it up. You get players back 7 or 8 yards off the line of scrimmage so you can run crossing patterns for chunks of yardage at a time, just like GB did to us the 1st half.

Like you say, when the DB's back off, a crossing pattern to Davis could and most likely would yield mucho YAC.

I remember a play a couple years ago(maybe not very accurately), I believe it was opening day '06@ Arizona where Smith took the snap from under center then rolled out right(strong side).....VD ran a shallow cross toward the left sideline and Smith threw across his body to Vernon after the D commited to the play. Vernon was wide open and if I remeber right took it some 40 yards for his first TD.

That was an innovative, yet simple play that caught the defense off guard and once the catch was made was virtually undefendable.

We need more of that.

A combination of play action and misdirection is yet another thing this team severely lacks. We'll try it one.. maybe two times a game, and that's simply not enough to make a defense start guessing, or get them to change their gameplan.

The most I've ever seen Raye do as far as creativity was the Chicago game. He scattered a couple nice plays, but because of the ultraconservative approach for the rest of the calls, our offense was otherwise limited.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Now take a look at a set from a second half play when we spread them out. Notice they were still blitzing the QB in the second half, shown here.

Yup. They blitzed up until the last TD drive when it was straight 4 man rush.

Quote:

Since we had them backing off to prevent the big play, underneath spaces for routes opened up. In addition, look at the TD play where we DID send Gore in motion to the outside. On this play, they blitzed two defenders, shown below in the second shot.

That's the benefit of opening it up. You get players back 7 or 8 yards off the line of scrimmage so you can run crossing patterns for chunks of yardage at a time, just like GB did to us the 1st half.

Like you say, when the DB's back off, a crossing pattern to Davis could and most likely would yield mucho YAC.

I remember a play a couple years ago(maybe not very accurately), I believe it was opening day '06@ Arizona where Smith took the snap from under center then rolled out right(strong side).....VD ran a shallow cross toward the left sideline and Smith threw across his body to Vernon after the D commited to the play. Vernon was wide open and if I remeber right took it some 40 yards for his first TD.

That was an innovative, yet simple play that caught the defense off guard and once the catch was made was virtually undefendable.

We need more of that.

A combination of play action and misdirection is yet another thing this team severely lacks. We'll try it one.. maybe two times a game, and that's simply not enough to make a defense start guessing, or get them to change their gameplan.

The most I've ever seen Raye do as far as creativity was the Chicago game. He scattered a couple nice plays, but because of the ultraconservative approach for the rest of the calls, our offense was otherwise limited.

This is very elementary stuff. If we can figure out what they are going to do before they do it, you can bet a d-coordinator will figure it out.

Why Raye can't understand that is beyond me, but I do have a viable theory:

When Sing hired Raye it was set in stone (to a fault) what kind of offense they were going to run and there was no plan B. Raye instilled this offense with no forethought as to 'what if it doesn't work'. He has some spread-type plays, but not enough to keep a defense guessing, hence the same 'over the top' td's to Vernon. So I believe he is backpedaling trying to design more plays suited to Smith's strengths. Too little too late if you ask me.

But like Sing said, it's a work in progress and they're making major adjustments mid-season, which is very hard to do and still win games. They should have had a plan b from the start.
Great thread OnTheClock.

You went to a lot of effort.

-9fA
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Now take a look at a set from a second half play when we spread them out. Notice they were still blitzing the QB in the second half, shown here.

Yup. They blitzed up until the last TD drive when it was straight 4 man rush.

Quote:

Since we had them backing off to prevent the big play, underneath spaces for routes opened up. In addition, look at the TD play where we DID send Gore in motion to the outside. On this play, they blitzed two defenders, shown below in the second shot.

That's the benefit of opening it up. You get players back 7 or 8 yards off the line of scrimmage so you can run crossing patterns for chunks of yardage at a time, just like GB did to us the 1st half.

Like you say, when the DB's back off, a crossing pattern to Davis could and most likely would yield mucho YAC.

I remember a play a couple years ago(maybe not very accurately), I believe it was opening day '06@ Arizona where Smith took the snap from under center then rolled out right(strong side).....VD ran a shallow cross toward the left sideline and Smith threw across his body to Vernon after the D commited to the play. Vernon was wide open and if I remeber right took it some 40 yards for his first TD.

That was an innovative, yet simple play that caught the defense off guard and once the catch was made was virtually undefendable.

We need more of that.

A combination of play action and misdirection is yet another thing this team severely lacks. We'll try it one.. maybe two times a game, and that's simply not enough to make a defense start guessing, or get them to change their gameplan.

The most I've ever seen Raye do as far as creativity was the Chicago game. He scattered a couple nice plays, but because of the ultraconservative approach for the rest of the calls, our offense was otherwise limited.

This is very elementary stuff. If we can figure out what they are going to do before they do it, you can bet a d-coordinator will figure it out.

Why Raye can't understand that is beyond me, but I do have a viable theory:

When Sing hired Raye it was set in stone (to a fault) what kind of offense they were going to run and there was no plan B. Raye instilled this offense with no forethought as to 'what if it doesn't work'. He has some spread-type plays, but not enough to keep a defense guessing, hence the same 'over the top' td's to Vernon. So I believe he is backpedaling trying to design more plays suited to Smith's strengths. Too little too late if you ask me.

But like Sing said, it's a work in progress and they're making major adjustments mid-season, which is very hard to do and still win games. They should have had a plan b from the start.

Pretty much. And I believe that's absolutely right. Singletary was interviewed and DID specifically say, in response to a question asking if they couldn't run, "There is no plan B." Sing admitted they had no back-up plan. Reading that back then was terrifying to me. That tells me we must not know our personell that well and are just now discovering we need to make changes, but are both reluctant to, as well as unable to because we don't have the time.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Nov 25, 2009 at 8:25 PM ]
Our coaches both lack the type of mind that is always churning over facts ideas and what ifs. IMO they are both limited in ability and lazy in their coaching and preparations. The sloppy play and sheer incompetence shows how little ability they have other then the rah rah hype promulgated by singletary. This team needs a total reaming out, not so much of the players as much as the management and the coaches. I do not think most coaches on this team deserve to be there. I would keep Rathman, Everest and our Defensive coordinator and purge most of the rest. I think with two first round picks the team needs to make a big move and get a real coaching staff instead of poseurs. All the recent coaches have all been as fake as the Yorks.
Mr. and Mrs dippy and prince faintheart.
OTC...bingo! The Niners will continue to struggle on offense 'til Singletary gets it through his thick head that 1) Raye's not the OC the team needs; 2) he (Singletary) wakes up and sees the strength of his offense is his receiving corps and uses the spread formations a LOT more (not just when they're behind). IF he's willing to replace Raye and swallow his huge pride that this is NOT a smash-mouth football team, we just might have a chance to win a few more games and actually be a contender, and not a pretender.
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
OTC...bingo! The Niners will continue to struggle on offense 'til Singletary gets it through his thick head that 1) Raye's not the OC the team needs; 2) he (Singletary) wakes up and sees the strength of his offense is his receiving corps and uses the spread formations a LOT more (not just when they're behind). IF he's willing to replace Raye and swallow his huge pride that this is NOT a smash-mouth football team, we just might have a chance to win a few more games and actually be a contender, and not a pretender.

Of all the coaches, I'd replace our OL coach hands down. Find a top-notch guy who really can get our line playing above their ability, or heck, at least TO it.

Right now, our linemen are playing well below what they're capable of, and that tells me we've got horrendous OL coaching taking place right now. And I'm going to say that Raye is at least a small part of that too.
Wow excellent thread. Great work OTC.

And yes, more threads like this in Niner talk would be extremely beneficial.
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