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General time to throw a ball

Originally posted by Joecool:
Let us get one thing straight, a QB should release the ball prior to or at the 3 second mark and most QBs do. I just rewatched the game and Rodgers had that ball out before 3 seconds on most of his completions.

Oldniner added it up and Smith gets quite a few of 2.8 seconds to throw a ball.

If you get MORE than 3 seconds, then you line is dominating. Most QBs get the ball out before 3 seconds hits.

Smith will get better but it's OK to admit that he's slow on his reads.

I disagree. Getting more than 3 seconds on one, or even a few plays does not at all mean your line is dominating.

And how often were receivers getting open in that maximum realm of 2.8 seconds? Our guys were blanketed until the 2nd half when we spread the field. 2.8 seconds is just enough time for Vernon to run a 25 yard go route. A QB can have all the time in the world, but if the receivers aren't getting open, he can only scramble for so long before he's either sacked or throws it away.

As I watched the game last week, I became exceptionally frustrated seeing our players not being able to get any separation off the initial jams in the first half. Of the 7 passes Alex actually threw, the only time our guys got open were on short routes like flats or drag routes.
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by Joecool:

You seriously need to understand the simple fact that in the NFL, if the QB takes 3 seconds before he makes his decision, then it is the QBs fault.

Why don't you take a look at most of Smith's completions...3 seconds is not needed and is normally not allowed to any QB.

But you won't understand until we have a probowl OL and still give up a lot of sacks.

I actually agree with this. Something like 80% of Alex's plays were over by 3 seconds--either throwing the ball away or complete. He had one 4 second pass play, and one 5 second (but that was a rollout so it an entirely different thing).

The three TD passes came on a 3 second play, 2 second, and 3 second. The only time a QB should need more than 3 seconds is if his receivers can't get open and if it's not done by 4 or 5 then he needs to get rid of the ball because it ain't happening.

What throwing from the shotgun allows Alex to do is see the field better and find the open man, which is why he's more successful running from there.

There's no reason we can't run a deep route from under center--but Raye refuses to call them. He'd rather call short crossing patterns or 5 yd post patterns that take the same amount of time to complete.
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by Joecool:

You seriously need to understand the simple fact that in the NFL, if the QB takes 3 seconds before he makes his decision, then it is the QBs fault.

Why don't you take a look at most of Smith's completions...3 seconds is not needed and is normally not allowed to any QB.

But you won't understand until we have a probowl OL and still give up a lot of sacks.

I actually agree with this. Something like 80% of Alex's plays were over by 3 seconds--either throwing the ball away or complete. He had one 4 second pass play, and one 5 second (but that was a rollout so it an entirely different thing).

The three TD passes came on a 3 second play, 2 second, and 3 second. The only time a QB should need more than 3 seconds is if his receivers can't get open and if it's not done by 4 or 5 then he needs to get rid of the ball because it ain't happening.

What throwing from the shotgun allows Alex to do is see the field better and find the open man, which is why he's more successful running from there.

There's no reason we can't run a deep route from under center--but Raye refuses to call them. He'd rather call short crossing patterns or 5 yd post patterns that take the same amount of time to complete.

That's the difference -- the view, the time he's taking to drop back, and the shortened distance the defenders have on their way to him. I agree, we should be taking deep shots to back the defense off, but our line has to allow for enough time for Alex to actually set his feet and THROW those kinds of passes.
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by Joecool:

You seriously need to understand the simple fact that in the NFL, if the QB takes 3 seconds before he makes his decision, then it is the QBs fault.

Why don't you take a look at most of Smith's completions...3 seconds is not needed and is normally not allowed to any QB.

But you won't understand until we have a probowl OL and still give up a lot of sacks.

I actually agree with this. Something like 80% of Alex's plays were over by 3 seconds--either throwing the ball away or complete. He had one 4 second pass play, and one 5 second (but that was a rollout so it an entirely different thing).

The three TD passes came on a 3 second play, 2 second, and 3 second. The only time a QB should need more than 3 seconds is if his receivers can't get open and if it's not done by 4 or 5 then he needs to get rid of the ball because it ain't happening.

What throwing from the shotgun allows Alex to do is see the field better and find the open man, which is why he's more successful running from there.

There's no reason we can't run a deep route from under center--but Raye refuses to call them. He'd rather call short crossing patterns or 5 yd post patterns that take the same amount of time to complete.

That's the difference -- the view, the time he's taking to drop back, and the shortened distance the defenders have on their way to him. I agree, we should be taking deep shots to back the defense off, but our line has to allow for enough time for Alex to actually set his feet and THROW those kinds of passes.

I'm an Alex supporter. I think he's had a bum deal and I think he's made some really good improvements over the past couple of games. However, he still has problems from under center. He should still be able to get back, read the defense and dump the pass in 3 seconds. I hate to compare him to Rodgers, but Rodgers had an even worse line (up until last week when their starters got healthy and came back to play), and he does a good job with getting rid of the ball from under center.

It's a skill that Alex needs to develop. I'm not absolving the line in this either. Opposing defenses get great push obstructing his throwing lanes, but Alex still needs to learn to operate from under center.

However, until he does we need to run this offense more from the shotgun. You tailor your game plan around the players you have, not the ones you wish you had
It's hard to put all the blame on Smith. Whenever I watch the Patriots or even the Colts playing, their respective QBs have tons of time to throw. OBVIOUSLY they're better QBs, but Tom Brady hardly has to move when he's back there. Contrast that to the crap Smith deals with every game.
  • mayo49
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The main reason to have Smith in the shotgun is to give him more time to scan the field until we can improve the OL enough where they can protect him.
  • B650
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Originally posted by mayo63:
The main reason to have Smith in the shotgun is to give him more time to scan the field until we can improve the OL enough where they can protect him.
  • smileyman
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Originally posted by mayo63:
The main reason to have Smith in the shotgun is to give him more time to scan the field until we can improve the OL enough where they can protect him.

This.

He doesn't actually have more time for the play, but instead of dropping back and then scanning the field, he's already back. That little bit of difference is crucial in the success of this offense right now.