Vernon Davis

Originally posted by buck:
I am not sure that this argument makes any sense.

Davis is under contract for two more years: 2014 and 2015.

In 2014, Davis's total income is higher than any wide receiver on the team.
He has the 2nd highest income on the team in 2014.

In 2015, Davis's total income is higher than any wide receiver on the team.
He has the 6th highest income on the team in 2015.

Total income = base salary, signing bonus, roster bonus and workout bonus.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=49ers

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=49ers

When I look at these figures, I get even more confused about this holdout than I already am.

No, the point is Vernon's pay might be higher than any receiver and TE on our team, but he is also out-performing any TE and WR in the team, in that sense he is worth more than any receiver or TE in the team.

I see this bleeding into the regular season. Could get ugly.

Originally posted by RDB4216:
No, you still have not shown how he outplayed his contract. Again, his stats the last two seasons don't even equal what he had done previously to get his current contract. It doesn't matter what he has done to compare to other teammates. VD signed his own contract based on the team's value and expectations of him. His pay went up. His stats went down. Has. Not. Outplayed. His. Contract.

Oh and BTW, Boldin had 30+ more catches and over 300 more yards. So no, VD didn't out perform all the WR's. Even though VD got paid more than Boldin last year.

LOL. So, you are telling me you would rather have 30+ more catches and 300 more yards than 13 TDs which was 6 more than Anquan ? You are just joking right ? I hope.

And you do know that Anquan had 130 targets vs Vernon's 84 right ? Hence, the 30+ more catches and 300+ more yards thing you were talking about ?

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by RDB4216:
No, you still have not shown how he outplayed his contract. Again, his stats the last two seasons don't even equal what he had done previously to get his current contract. It doesn't matter what he has done to compare to other teammates. VD signed his own contract based on the team's value and expectations of him. His pay went up. His stats went down. Has. Not. Outplayed. His. Contract.

Oh and BTW, Boldin had 30+ more catches and over 300 more yards. So no, VD didn't out perform all the WR's. Even though VD got paid more than Boldin last year.

LOL. So, you are telling me you would rather have 30+ more catches and 300 more yards than 13 TDs which was 6 more than Anquan ? You are just joking right ? I hope.

And you do know that Anquan had 130 targets vs Vernon's 84 right ? Hence, the 30+ more catches and 300+ more yards thing you were talking about ?

Just in case you didn't read between the lines, that meant Vernon's TD ration per catch was far higher :

1) Vernon - 13 TDs out of 52 catches = 25%

2) Anquan - 7 TDs out of 85 catches = 8%

Conclusion = Vernon outplayed Anquan. Makes sense ?

Originally posted by Rascal:
LOL. So, you are telling me you would rather have 30+ more catches and 300 more yards than 13 TDs which was 6 more than Anquan ? You are just joking right ? I hope.

And you do know that Anquan had 130 targets vs Vernon's 84 right ? Hence, the 30+ more catches and 300+ more yards thing you were talking about ?

You do realize that without the rest of the team gaining yards, Vernon doesn't get into position to score those TD's...right? Or do you think all his TD's come from 80+ yard catches?

(I will give you a hint: With only 850 yards last season, and a whopping 548 before that - no, they don't).

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by buck:

I am not sure that this argument makes any sense.

Davis is under contract for two more years: 2014 and 2015.

In 2014, Davis's total income is higher than any wide receiver on the team.
He has the 2nd highest income on the team in 2014.

In 2015, Davis's total income is higher than any wide receiver on the team.
He has the 6th highest income on the team in 2015.

Total income = base salary, signing bonus, roster bonus and workout bonus.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=49ers

http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=49ers

When I look at these figures, I get even more confused about this holdout than I already am.

No, the point is Vernon's pay might be higher than any receiver and TE on our team, but he is also out-performing any TE and WR in the team, in that sense he is worth more than any receiver or TE in the team.

Wait. His salary seems to indicate that he is in fact already worth more than any wide receiver or tight end on the team.

The fact is that in the last two years of his contract Davis (minus the money lost due to his holdout) is already being paid more than any wide receiver on the team.

The fact is that the 2014 season and the 2015 season have not been played yet. His scheduled pay is not dependent on his performance in 2014 and 2014.

Are you saying he deserves to be paid more than he is scheduled to receive?

Originally posted by buck:
Wait. His salary seems to indicated that he is in fact already worth more than any wide receiver or tight end on the team.

The fact is that in the last two years of his contract Davis (minus the money lost due to his holdout) is already being paid more than any wide receiver on the team.

The fact is that the 2014 season and the 2015 season have not been played yet. His scheduled pay is not dependent on his performance in 2014 and 2014.

Are you saying he deserves to be paid more than he is scheduled to receive?

Sorry, I should clarify. Yes, he was paid more than any WR or TE. Anquan was on $6 mil, so may be around $1 mil less then Vernon. What I am saying is given Vernon's unmatched performance of 13 TDs, he should be worth more than $1 mil more than Anquan not to mention he is also younger than Anquan, as to how much that figure should be, that's another debate. I am only guessing and I stress "guessing", Vernon is probably looking at around $10 mil, who knows may be $9 mil might keep him happy ?

Originally posted by Rascal:
Sorry, I should clarify. Yes, he was paid more than any WR or TE. Anquan was on $6 mil, so may be around $1 mil less then Vernon. What I am saying is given Vernon's unmatched performance of 13 TDs, he should be worth more than $1 mil more than Anquan not to mention he is also younger than Anquan, as to how much that figure should be, that's another debate. I am only guessing and I stress "guessing", Vernon is probably looking at around $10 mil, who knows may be $9 mil might keep him happy ?

I really don't think you grasp the concept of how contracts work. It isn't a comparison scale to the rest of the team. Otherwise Barry Sanders would have been earning 90% of the entire cap-allocation. A player signs a contract based on HIS personal value and expectations. It's based on HIS play, HIS stats. VD's best season while playing under his previous contract was 78 catches / 965 yards / 13 TD's. Those stats, in part, lead to his current contract (Which I remind you, again - was the largest ANY TE had ever signed). Has he exceeded or even equaled those numbers in either of the last two seasons? No, he has not. Therefore, HE has not outplayed HIS contract.

Originally posted by RDB4216:
You do realize that without the rest of the team gaining yards, Vernon doesn't get into position to score those TD's...right? Or do you think all his TD's come from 80+ yard catches?

(I will give you a hint: With only 850 yards last season, and a whopping 548 before that - no, they don't).

And you do realize without Vernon's 13 TDs we wouldn't have even made the playoffs right ?

While we are at it, Vernon's average yards per catch was 16.3 yards and Anquan's was only 13.9 yards. To put things into perspective, out of the top 10 passing TD scorers last season, be it TE or WR, Vernon's average yards per catch was only second to Megatron.

That should settle it.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Sorry, I should clarify. Yes, he was paid more than any WR or TE. Anquan was on $6 mil, so may be around $1 mil less then Vernon. What I am saying is given Vernon's unmatched performance of 13 TDs, he should be worth more than $1 mil more than Anquan not to mention he is also younger than Anquan, as to how much that figure should be, that's another debate. I am only guessing and I stress "guessing", Vernon is probably looking at around $10 mil, who knows may be $9 mil might keep him happy ?

You might want to check your numbers again.

Over the next two years, Boldin is scheduled to receive $9,273,000.

Over the next two years, Davis is scheduled to receive $14,360,836.

Over the next two years, Davis will receive $5,087,836 more than Boldin.



http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=49ers

Originally posted by RDB4216:
I really don't think you grasp the concept of how contracts work. It isn't a comparison scale to the rest of the team. Otherwise Barry Sanders would have been earning 90% of the entire cap-allocation. A player signs a contract based on HIS personal value and expectations. It's based on HIS play, HIS stats. VD's best season while playing under his previous contract was 78 catches / 965 yards / 13 TD's. Those stats, in part, lead to his current contract (Which I remind you, again - was the largest ANY TE had ever signed). Has he exceeded or even equaled those numbers in either of the last two seasons? No, he has not. Therefore, HE has not outplayed HIS contract.

I didn't start off by comparing Vernon's pay to the team only the discussion went in that direction.

Vernon hasn't outplayed his contract ? My point is his current contract was locked down or limited to his position as being a TE. This is Jimmy Graham's problem too with his TE franchise tag. At the end of the day, is all about performance and production and what that production is worth to the team. If other WRs in the market are being paid more and perform less, then an argument can be put forward even a so-called top-paid TE is worth more simply because his payscale has been penalized because he carries a TE label.

If you are so adamant with your argument, we might as well just trade or cut Vernon right ?

Originally posted by buck:
You might want to check your numbers again.

Over the next two years, Boldin is scheduled to receive $9,273,000.

Over the next two years, Davis is scheduled to receive $14,360,836.

Over the next two years, Davis will receive $5,087,836 more than Boldin.



http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=49ers

I was talking about pay per year. If Anquan's new deal is only $9 mil for 2 years then that is his own predicament.

Let's start from a clean slate, Vernon's pay is about $7 mil per year and he is looking for more. I believe he is probably looking at around $10 mil, but who knows $9 mil might do it ?

Originally posted by Rascal:
And you do realize without Vernon's 13 TDs we wouldn't have even made the playoffs right ?

While we are at it, Vernon's average yards per catch was 16.3 yards and Anquan's was only 13.9 yards. To put things into perspective, out of the top 10 passing TD scorers last season, be it TE or WR, Vernon's average yards per catch was only second to Megatron.

That should settle it.

Again, you are comparing VD to other players on the team. Please show me where in his contract it states he gets a raise for outperforming his teammates. I don't think there is an escalator in his contract that states he gets a bonus if Crabtree gets hurt and misses games. Players get paid based on their own performance. Surely you cannot really be this dense?

Regardless, VD was paid higher than any other TE or WR on the team already. So your argument that he should be paid more carries no weight, because HE ALREADY IS!!!

I just figured this out. You bought stock in VD's Fanatek "brand", didn't you?

Originally posted by Rascal:
I didn't start off by comparing Vernon's pay to the team only the discussion went in that direction.

Vernon hasn't outplayed his contract ? My point is his current contract was locked down or limited to his position as being a TE. This is Jimmy Graham's problem too with his TE franchise tag. At the end of the day, is all about performance and production and what that production is worth to the team. If other WRs in the market are being paid more and perform less, then an argument can be put forward even a so-called top-paid TE is worth more simply because his payscale has been penalized because he carries a TE label.

If you are so adamant with your argument, we might as well just trade or cut Vernon right ?

His current contract is NOT locked down to him "just being a TE" or however you want to say that. How about a primarily blocking TE. Again, on his previous contract, his career year was 78-965-13. Those are not "blocking TE" numbers. He was paid based on being a receiving TE. Paid how, you may ask? With the LARGEST contract EVER given to a TE in the HISTORY of the NFL!

Originally posted by Rascal:

I didn't start off by comparing Vernon's pay to the team only the discussion went in that direction.

Vernon hasn't outplayed his contract ? My point is his current contract was locked down or limited to his position as being a TE. This is Jimmy Graham's problem too with his TE franchise tag. At the end of the day, is all about performance and production and what that production is worth to the team. If other WRs in the market are being paid more and perform less, then an argument can be put forward even a so-called top-paid TE is worth more simply because his payscale has been penalized because he carries a TE label.

If you are so adamant with your argument, we might as well just trade or cut Vernon right ?

You are wrong on what Jimmy Graham is contending.

The Saints franchised him as a tight end.

In his grievance, Graham is not contended that he has outperformed anybody.

Graham argues that he should have been franchised as a wide receiver, because he actually plays wide receiver significantly more than he plays tight end.

The statistics clearly support Graham's contention.