There are 95 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Vernon Davis

  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,543
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that
Originally posted by cciowa:
got a hold out on the offense line and the line is still over rated in pass protection
no clue what you got in the run game behind gore and hunter, you got two kids you "hope will come along but they have zero nfl experience
at wide out, crabs is healthy, boldin is a year older, we have seen nothing from stevie due to his hammie who has also had some ball drop issues, you got two kids whose amount of nfl experience can be fit into a thimble.
ck is good but do you want him running around all day long in games to make up for the loss of vernon perhaps putting him at injury risk, you saw he was limited a bit last year when he hurt his foot
yes when you put it that way, by all means, we need to dump one of the few consistent threats we have had on offense over the years

Where did you get that I said dump VD? Where did you get that? I said that we have much better complements in and around VD and that we will miss him much less now than we did then. Last season all we had for the most part was VD and Boldin. After that we had a ton of unproven players. We needed VD and Boldin like I need Oxygen to survive. This year however we have a plethora of guys that can make plays. We won't keel over and die like we would have last year if VD were to miss games this year. We now have Boldin Crab Stevie and Lloyd as proven 1000 yard guys (something VD hasn't achieved once in his illustrious career). I think we can get Vernons production from that cast of characters. As to our RB depth we were fine with just Gore and Hunter last season and it would be foolish to think that a healthy Lattimore and Hyde can't contribute a lot of positive things to our rushing attack. Doubt Lattimore if you please due to his injury but at least Hyde should be able to give us some production. You know just like I do that Bruce Miller was our number 3 last season...a FB! That can't happen this year and VD will at best be our number 3 this year behind Crab and Boldin. VD is a special talent but we happen to have a lot of talented players catching balls for us this season.

I haven't said to dismiss VD and cut or trade him unless someone wants to give us a 1st round pick. My business mind is much too keen for such talk. I have always maintained that VD will report and he will have a chance to produce to the point at which he can return to the table the summer of 2015 for contract talk extensions. It won't happen now! He has 2 seasons left and we have other priorities right now. VD has to wait his turn and handle this like a pro or just pout and whine like a chump but fact is right now the Niners have all the leverage
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that
Originally posted by cciowa:
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that
I think his catches can be replaced by a healthy Crabtree Stevie Lloyd some mix of QP and Ellington. I also think that we won't target Bruce Miller as much either. Why? Because we have plenty of capable 1000 yard WRs this season to do that. We will miss VD freakish athletic talent but we can replace his receiving production this season. We can still find ways to get good blocking too. We have the leverage and VD will report and collect his money
[ Edited by Pillbusta on Jun 22, 2014 at 11:15 AM ]
cciowa

Good points, but this passing offense pretty much based on decoy, drawing defenders away from the middle of the field and trying to get match-ups with other players. In essence the opposing defense has to believe the new threat (let's just say for hypotheticals VD holds out for 3 games) has to believe the replacement or the new formation (player) is a viable threat against 1-1 coverage. VD regularly beats LB so teams are forced to use a safety which lessens their effectiveness in covering out WRs. He may only have 3.5 catches a game, but the way this offense is designed - it regularly depends on him drawing away defenders from others. Ultimately I don't think an improved offense is dependent on Davis. If we're really talking about more 3-wide sets and options being used in the passing game, that's a Kapernick question; can he run a true spread offense and really make the next quantum leap in reading defenses and anticipating his targets/vision? That lessens the loss of a Davis and allows this team to truly transform the offense.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Jun 22, 2014 at 11:26 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
But you forget this passing offense pretty much based on decoy, drawing defenders away from the middle of the field and trying to get match-ups with other players. In essence the opposing defense has to believe the new threat (let's just say for hypotheticals VD holds out for 3 games) has to believe the replacement or the new formation (player) is a viable threat against 1-1 coverage. VD regularly beats LB so teams are forced to use a safety which lessens their effectiveness in covering out WRs. He may only have 3.5 catches a game, but the way this offense is designed - it regularly depends on him drawing away defenders from others. Ultimately I don't think an improved offense is dependent on Davis. If we're really talking about more 3-wide sets and options being used in the passing game, that's a Kapernick question; can he run a true spread offense and really make the next quantum leap in reading defenses and anticipating his targets/vision? That lessens the loss of a Davis and allows this team to truly transform the offense.

You said it! 3 WR sets and if I put either Crab, Stevie or Boldin in the slot there will be a mismatch vs a LB. All I know is that there are plenty of NFL offenses that have found ways to run pass and score the ball without a freak like VD at TE. We have 4 1000 yard WRs and a great stable of RBs and I think we should still be able to figure out how to put up points with Kap having his 2nd full offseason grooming at QB as a starter
[ Edited by Pillbusta on Jun 22, 2014 at 11:46 AM ]
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,543
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that
hey i am just going by your math, if you feel you need to adjust vernons totals, then i will adjust vances totals. what is laughable and untrue are your claims that he is not a difference maker in our offense,, that is grasping in my opinion
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,543
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by cciowa:
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that
I think his catches can be replaced by a healthy Crabtree Stevie Lloyd some mix of QP and Ellington. I also think that we won't target Bruce Miller as much either. Why? Because we have plenty of capable 1000 yard WRs this season to do that. We will miss VD freakish athletic talent but we can replace his receiving production this season. We can still find ways to get good blocking too. We have the leverage and VD will report and collect his money
i must be in a disagreement mode today,,, i actually hope we can target miller a bit this year,, i know everyone is drooling at these wide outs we have but miller was pretty valuable and a nice target out of the backfield when ck got in trouble and did not have vernon or boldin open. the blocking thing, no special teams ability and his age is the reason why i do not think lloyd will stay but i will say, if boldin keeps "competing" the way he has so far,, the hell with his size, youth and blocking and welcome to the roster miss lloyd
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,543
Originally posted by NinerGM:
cciowa

Good points, but this passing offense pretty much based on decoy, drawing defenders away from the middle of the field and trying to get match-ups with other players. In essence the opposing defense has to believe the new threat (let's just say for hypotheticals VD holds out for 3 games) has to believe the replacement or the new formation (player) is a viable threat against 1-1 coverage. VD regularly beats LB so teams are forced to use a safety which lessens their effectiveness in covering out WRs. He may only have 3.5 catches a game, but the way this offense is designed - it regularly depends on him drawing away defenders from others. Ultimately I don't think an improved offense is dependent on Davis. If we're really talking about more 3-wide sets and options being used in the passing game, that's a Kapernick question; can he run a true spread offense and really make the next quantum leap in reading defenses and anticipating his targets/vision? That lessens the loss of a Davis and allows this team to truly transform the offense.
i think a loss of vernon would set the offense back however i do not think that will happen because i think it will turn out just like jerry rice when he held out. the niners may do something to throw vernon a bone while making it look like they are not caving into him. vernon will be back for at least the next two years. i know some already have him off the team and are already building schemes like he will never play another down for us and that is just sad, that is not a reference to you gm. it just seems to be a sad state in some quarters
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that
hey i am just going by your math, if you feel you need to adjust vernons totals, then i will adjust vances totals. what is laughable and untrue are your claims that he is not a difference maker in our offense,, that is grasping in my opinion

If he was, wouldn't he be contributing more then being an excellent blocker. We will adjust according...we have enough weapons to even keep the TE blocking full time if needed.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,543
GM,, i also do not think the question is , can ck run a spread offense with multiple wide outs.. for the sake of not derailing the thread the real question lies in someone else,,, no names mention but his initials are greg roman
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 26,543
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that
hey i am just going by your math, if you feel you need to adjust vernons totals, then i will adjust vances totals. what is laughable and untrue are your claims that he is not a difference maker in our offense,, that is grasping in my opinion

If he was, wouldn't he be contributing more then being an excellent blocker. We will adjust according...we have enough weapons to even keep the TE blocking full time if needed.

the way he draws defenders away from other players are not measured in quik stats you know. i am not sure your boy vance will be able to draw constant double teams thus freeing up other people to make plays but then maybe vance is secretly scaring the hell out of other teams and those teams are so terrified by the mere thought of vance out there on the field,, they would rather have us keep vernon since vernon is not " a difference maker in our offense"
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by Bluesbro:
Originally posted by ads_2006:
Surprised this dude isn't on the chiefs yet


Right? Is he still a Niner? What about "The team, the team, the team"? He signed a big contract, and has played well, but his production is slipping, he is over 30, and the 3rd highest paid tight end in the league, which is more than he deserves. Frankly, he doesn't look as good as he did with D. Walker on the other side of him. Really, he can go now, the team can win without him. Sorry VD, and Boone, but this team is stacked, and you guys are good, but not indispensable.
who fills in for vernon, the all pro who is good for about 10 touchdowns a year? vance? wow he only had the number two spot last year because no one else was any good.. we can not be so arrogant as to think you can get rid of vernon and just plug someone in. we have never had to develop a tight end for years, i have no confidence in erik to do that, nor can we be so arrogant to think ck can just make vance a all pro. now vernon does not look as good as when he had walker? really,,, he had a great year last year and why am i even getting sucked into debating something as nonsensical as that? why is around here when people want certain players gone for whatever reason, gore and now vernon, they start blathering about how they are slipping. there is zero evidence to prove vernon is slipping,, even if there were, we go back to who replaces him.
We have a better receiving core now, we have two young backs who are said to be capable pass catchers, and we have big Mac, we can find 3-4 catches a game there. I don't hate Vernon, and I will be pleased if he returns and plays out his deal, but if he turns into a couple of decent draft picks, well that would be fine too. In the end, this team is stacked, the coaches are sharp, and we will aways be fine with "the next man up".
I just know that we better not pay VD a penny more this season. He has to come and play or just sit on his bum and let us roll over his dough into next year's payroll. Naw, I think that he will just come to training camp and play out the upcoming season and come to the table the summer of 2015. It just make no sense to pay VD more than the number 3 TE in the league this year when his production is not there right now. He has been paid very handsomely from the moment we drafted him up until now. He has been very blessed in his career and he has been paid like a HOF TE his entire career though his induction into the HOF is truly up for grabs at this point in his career. There are other players that probably should be paid more and are grossly underpaid and VD is not one of them
What is vern asking for? Does anybody know?

It might be in our interest to renegotiate a longer term deal with vern that lowers his immediate cap. Could that be compatible with what he is asking for?