Vernon Davis

Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:
I don't think anyone can rightfully questions VD's talent, but i think its pretty greedy to hold out for a new contract when you are already paid among the top at your position and have two years left on your current deal. Especially knowing all the moves we are going to try to make this off season. I know NFL contracts aren't guaranteed and yadda yadda but VD's isn't exactly playing at a discounted rate.

VD is playing at pretty much exactly what he is worth, even on the open market. This is actually BAD for a Super Bowl Franchise. You simply can't afford to pay your players what they are worth, you have to pay most of them LESS than what they are worth. Otherwise, it is impossible to end up with more talent than other teams who are playing with the same amount of salary cap money.
Joe Staley, Boone, Gore (until this year), Boldin, Stevie Johnson, McDonald, Dorsey, Justin Smith, Ian Williams, and Brock, are all examples of how to work contracts in order to have top talent the team. Add in the players on rook deals, and you have a top ball club.

There is a 0% chance that we increase Vernon's salary. There is a 1% chance that we extend him beyond the age of 32 at top dollar.

I would love to see us double Boones salary, and give him a 4-5 year extension at that salary. However, if he wants to quintuple his salary, he can forget it.

Willis, Bowman, Brooks, Vernon, make what they are worth, so they are technically drags on our leveraging of the salary cap. However, you can't have a + on every contract, you just have to make sure most of them are +'s.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
Extend Kap, Aldon, Boone.
Maybe Culliver too, but I think he is another lost cause, his injury has made it impossible to extend him, because if he plays well this year, he will want too much money, and if he doesn't play well, we don't extend him.

Let everyone else play out their contract.

I wouldnt say that. His first two seasons were solid, if not even good. A bad season after coming back from a season-ending injury doesnt have to be a contract killer at all. I would even say, it is an advantage for the Niners.

Let's put it another way. Culliver is a free agent after this season, so we have to pay more than the other 31 teams in the league are willing to pay. There is a chance we do that, but it is more likely another team overpays for him. Maybe we can extend him during the season if he is playing well, but I doubt that happens. His agent will want to wait until free agency, and I can't blame him.

Throw that ball to Vernon Davis!

Let him put a Jamba Juice inside Levi's Stadium and call it even.

OK, I am not going to get into whether Vernon is greedy or not or whether he would have gotten more in the open market.

Instead, I am just going to say this. Out of our 21 passing TDs last season, Vernon scored 13 of them. Even as anemic as our passing game was say as compared to the Saints, Jimmy Graham who was the top scoring TE/WR of the entire NFL only had 3 more TDs than Vernon at 16.

What does that tell you ? Without Vernon, we would be well screwed !! Without Vernon, we wouldn't have even beaten the Saints in that classic 2011 divisional playoff game.

Well, whose fault is this ? This all boils down to Baalke's failure in drafting a true big sized deep threat/red zone WR. This has been an ongoing issue for years now including this year's draft. Last year with Crab down, we even had to play Vernon essentially as a WR when in numerous occassions we had to line him out wide.

I guess Vernon must be thinking he should be paid more like a WR. This is no different to Jimmy Graham being pissed that he is franchise-tagged as a TE as opposed to a WR. Bottomline, be it TE or WR, Jimmy Graham is Drew Brees' favourite target and the Saints' top scorer and same goes with Vernon for us..Anquan might have more yards, but he is too slow to get into the end zone, that is why he only had 7 TDs, pretty much half of Vernon's production.

In reality, Vernon might not be a badly paid TE per se, but not until we have our own version of say a Brandon Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey for example, we NEED this man !!

Originally posted by Rascal:
OK, I am not going to get into whether Vernon is greedy or not or whether he would have gotten more in the open market.

Instead, I am just going to say this. Out of our 21 passing TDs last season, Vernon scored 13 of them. Even as anemic as our passing game was say as compared to the Saints, Jimmy Graham who was the top scoring TE/WR of the entire NFL only had 3 more TDs than Vernon at 16.

What does that tell you ? Without Vernon, we would be well screwed !! Without Vernon, we wouldn't have even beaten the Saints in that classic 2011 divisional playoff game.

Well, whose fault is this ? This all boils down to Baalke's failure in drafting a true big sized deep threat/red zone WR. This has been an ongoing issue for years now including this year's draft. Last year with Crab down, we even had to play Vernon essentially as a WR when in numerous occassions we had to line him out wide.

I guess Vernon must be thinking he should be paid more like a WR. This is no different to Jimmy Graham being pissed that he is franchise-tagged as a TE as opposed to a WR. Bottomline, be it TE or WR, Jimmy Graham is Drew Brees' favourite target and the Saints' top scorer and same goes with Vernon for us..Anquan might have more yards, but he is too slow to get into the end zone, that is why he only had 7 TDs, pretty much half of Vernon's production.

In reality, Vernon might not be a badly paid TE per se, but not until we have our own version of say a Brandon Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey for example, we NEED this man !!

It is this and timing. He knows that with more weapons his TD ratio will likely decline, which puts him at a disadvantage when it comes to renegotiation time.

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by Rascal:
OK, I am not going to get into whether Vernon is greedy or not or whether he would have gotten more in the open market.

Instead, I am just going to say this. Out of our 21 passing TDs last season, Vernon scored 13 of them. Even as anemic as our passing game was say as compared to the Saints, Jimmy Graham who was the top scoring TE/WR of the entire NFL only had 3 more TDs than Vernon at 16.

What does that tell you ? Without Vernon, we would be well screwed !! Without Vernon, we wouldn't have even beaten the Saints in that classic 2011 divisional playoff game.

Well, whose fault is this ? This all boils down to Baalke's failure in drafting a true big sized deep threat/red zone WR. This has been an ongoing issue for years now including this year's draft. Last year with Crab down, we even had to play Vernon essentially as a WR when in numerous occassions we had to line him out wide.

I guess Vernon must be thinking he should be paid more like a WR. This is no different to Jimmy Graham being pissed that he is franchise-tagged as a TE as opposed to a WR. Bottomline, be it TE or WR, Jimmy Graham is Drew Brees' favourite target and the Saints' top scorer and same goes with Vernon for us..Anquan might have more yards, but he is too slow to get into the end zone, that is why he only had 7 TDs, pretty much half of Vernon's production.

In reality, Vernon might not be a badly paid TE per se, but not until we have our own version of say a Brandon Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey for example, we NEED this man !!

It is this and timing. He knows that with more weapons his TD ratio will likely decline, which puts him at a disadvantage when it comes to renegotiation time.

Agree. He sees the Stevie Johnson trade amongst other signings and thinks "well, I gotta look after me now because my numbers will probably drop"... I'm fairly confident he just wants years added to his deal. It can't be about dollars because he I already at the peak for TE's.

Hasn't he restructured twice to help them sign others for the long haul? It seems odd that more years weren't tacked on then?

Maybe he needs the money cuz nobody is buying his bad paintings.

Originally posted by AUniner:

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by Rascal:

OK, I am not going to get into whether Vernon is greedy or not or whether he would have gotten more in the open market.

Instead, I am just going to say this. Out of our 21 passing TDs last season, Vernon scored 13 of them. Even as anemic as our passing game was say as compared to the Saints, Jimmy Graham who was the top scoring TE/WR of the entire NFL only had 3 more TDs than Vernon at 16.

What does that tell you ? Without Vernon, we would be well screwed !! Without Vernon, we wouldn't have even beaten the Saints in that classic 2011 divisional playoff game.

Well, whose fault is this ? This all boils down to Baalke's failure in drafting a true big sized deep threat/red zone WR. This has been an ongoing issue for years now including this year's draft. Last year with Crab down, we even had to play Vernon essentially as a WR when in numerous occassions we had to line him out wide.

I guess Vernon must be thinking he should be paid more like a WR. This is no different to Jimmy Graham being pissed that he is franchise-tagged as a TE as opposed to a WR. Bottomline, be it TE or WR, Jimmy Graham is Drew Brees' favourite target and the Saints' top scorer and same goes with Vernon for us..Anquan might have more yards, but he is too slow to get into the end zone, that is why he only had 7 TDs, pretty much half of Vernon's production.

In reality, Vernon might not be a badly paid TE per se, but not until we have our own version of say a Brandon Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey for example, we NEED this man !!

It is this and timing. He knows that with more weapons his TD ratio will likely decline, which puts him at a disadvantage when it comes to renegotiation time.

Agree. He sees the Stevie Johnson trade amongst other signings and thinks "well, I gotta look after me now because my numbers will probably drop"... I'm fairly confident he just wants years added to his deal. It can't be about dollars because he I already at the peak for TE's.

Hasn't he restructured twice to help them sign others for the long haul? It seems odd that more years weren't tacked on then?

Well said i was thinking the same when i read artical on vernon. Hopefully we can make em happy with added yrs or so. But with kaep, aldon, crabs etc coming up on pay days, where does vern stand in this battle. If this is 100% authentic truth?

Ab81 guess this questions prob for you bro!! Or feel free to chime in anyone :)

Originally posted by T-9ers:

Maybe he needs the money cuz nobody is buying his bad paintings.

He stll has his juice shpps tho :) be badass if his paintings did sell like crazy tho.....

I hate when I get reminded this is a business

Maybe he needs more money to buy more gay ass clothes

Originally posted by AUniner:

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by Rascal:
OK, I am not going to get into whether Vernon is greedy or not or whether he would have gotten more in the open market.

Instead, I am just going to say this. Out of our 21 passing TDs last season, Vernon scored 13 of them. Even as anemic as our passing game was say as compared to the Saints, Jimmy Graham who was the top scoring TE/WR of the entire NFL only had 3 more TDs than Vernon at 16.

What does that tell you ? Without Vernon, we would be well screwed !! Without Vernon, we wouldn't have even beaten the Saints in that classic 2011 divisional playoff game.

Well, whose fault is this ? This all boils down to Baalke's failure in drafting a true big sized deep threat/red zone WR. This has been an ongoing issue for years now including this year's draft. Last year with Crab down, we even had to play Vernon essentially as a WR when in numerous occassions we had to line him out wide.

I guess Vernon must be thinking he should be paid more like a WR. This is no different to Jimmy Graham being pissed that he is franchise-tagged as a TE as opposed to a WR. Bottomline, be it TE or WR, Jimmy Graham is Drew Brees' favourite target and the Saints' top scorer and same goes with Vernon for us..Anquan might have more yards, but he is too slow to get into the end zone, that is why he only had 7 TDs, pretty much half of Vernon's production.

In reality, Vernon might not be a badly paid TE per se, but not until we have our own version of say a Brandon Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey for example, we NEED this man !!

It is this and timing. He knows that with more weapons his TD ratio will likely decline, which puts him at a disadvantage when it comes to renegotiation time.

Agree. He sees the Stevie Johnson trade amongst other signings and thinks "well, I gotta look after me now because my numbers will probably drop"... I'm fairly confident he just wants years added to his deal. It can't be about dollars because he I already at the peak for TE's.

Hasn't he restructured twice to help them sign others for the long haul? It seems odd that more years weren't tacked on then?

To me, this all boils down to a position vs production vs pay debate.

In other words, should a TE be a team's top passing TD scorer as opposed to a WR ? Like I said, Vernon almost had double the number of TDs as compared to Anquan, our 2nd highest passing TD scorer. And should a TE be paid massively less than a WR ? A top TE in the market pulls in about $7 mil a year as compared to $16 mil for a top WR.

Bottomline, I guess it all depends on production and how much of the TE's production represent the whole team's production, in other words how badly the team needs that TE. It isn't the TE's fault that he happens to be the top TD producer of the team such as in the case of Graham with the Saints or Vernon with us.

For teams that have amazing wideouts, I guess they probably wouldn't pay a TE much more than what Vernon is already on. But, if your production/success hinges on that TE, you are better off paying him. You could franchise-tag him, but last you want is your top scorer to be disgruntled.

I guess the moral of the story is if you don't want to pay a TE more than the going TE market rate, get better WRs. But, ironically bottomline wise, you would probably still end up forking out more money given WR's higher market rate.

lets put his 13 td's into perspective, he has scored 13tds twice, Brent Jones career year was 9td's in 94, when young threw 35td's vs Vernons 13 when are qb scored 21 lol.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Really love your analysis here.

You're not going to get a super high paid/productive TE on a team that loves to run. Consider this - what's the effective difference between a 3rd good WR and a really good TE? Sure VD runs like a WR but produce like one? It's not so sure if that's the case between the 20's or, IMHO, his yards would have had a higher total. Again, it's the position and age; I don't know many really awesome 30 year old and older TE in the league. Sure there's Tony and Jason, but those are clearly the exception to the rule. Sure VD could be that exception, but when it comes to the money down - 3rd down - the man on the team is Crabtree right now, not VD. And sure he can run fast in a straight line, but there's a reason why we brought in Lloyd and Johnson - two WR known for creating separation.

The Barrows article states that this wasn't news to the 49ers who have known about this since February. I think the Baalke moves make even more sense, and why the urgency for securing a primary, veteran receiving option was even more urgent than we all thought.

I take issue with this as Crab has spent too much time on the sideline to commit huge dollars to. There are very few players who have played more snaps than VD over the past 3 years.