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Close look at OL blocks and QB passes

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
First of all great work breaking down the play at the Line. I can't say enough how much stuff like this means to me. You won't see stuff like this on any other fan site so far that I am aware of. Probably because people think that it wouldn't go over well. The Anti-Egghead syndrome if you will.

2nd I think this just backs up what I've been saying all along about both Smith and the Line. That...

A) Smith needs time. Turning around into a Sack directly after the snap is not something that is conducive to being a solid QB. Also not the FAULT of the QB. Something that a QB can't read under Center either.

THe other is that these guys while the have their good moments don't seem to put it together on a consistent basis. Sims... I think his problem on the RT spot is that he doesn't know the unit well enough to blindly trust them to hold up. Maybe he's getting there now because he knows the LT spot better than the RT spot so he doesn't over analyze the assignment.

And These guys to a man don't seem to be receiving solid Coaching from the OL Coach. Maybe it's just me, but I think that this team needs a world class character as their Coach. Someone who inspires them. Cause this guy we have now doesn't seem to be doing that well at all.

~Ceadder

P.S. Now some of you may think I've lost my mind, but I think we need a Sumo Coach. Someone that can show that Mass up front how to remain LOW and stand guys up. Because I would be willing to bet that on just about every play where one of our guys got beat they were blocking high. That NEVER ends well unless the Defense left early.

That really isn't a bad idea. Some do boxing or MMA training. This o line needs to do some sumo training.
I really hope we draft one lineman in the first round and another in the second. Also go out and sign the best free agent guard available. Isnt Logan Mankins a free agent this offseason?

This line needs to be upgraded massively. Chilo Rachal is terrible, David Baas is terrible, we dont know what we have with Pashos at RT(if he stays), if he leaves then we know that Snyder is terrible.

As of right now, there are only two linemen on this team that can play at an NFL level (Staley and Heitmann). You can say Sims is playing well on the left, but it is obvious that they are not going to start him there when Staley comes back.

What I dont get is why John Runyan has not been given a look. He couldnt possibly be any worse than Snyder.
Our boys up front (with probable exclusion to Staley) are losing with the initial moment of engagement. The DL seems to be quicker with their hands and technique than our OL... so our boys lose leverage and positioning right away... and then spend their remaining time trying to recover from that initial fail. They seem... simply not quick and alert enough. There were a few snaps vs Chicago where Rachal looked like a lumbering 400 pound Larry Allen out of retirement. It's a mess, and if we don't see great improvement vs GB, then it's time for some serious accountability.

^ .... just a sudden thought.
Fantastic Thread. One of the best I've read in months...thanks guys.

It just points out that we need to focus more on the line than the QBs. Until we get a solid line, we can't really complain about our QB play. Now, if Alex starts getting 3-5 seconds consistantly and still can't perform his head needs to roll. Not saying that Alex is the answer...just that we can't really say he's not until we get some other things fixed first.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Fantastic Thread. One of the best I've read in months...thanks guys.

It just points out that we need to focus more on the line than the QBs. Until we get a solid line, we can't really complain about our QB play. Now, if Alex starts getting 3-5 seconds consistantly and still can't perform his head needs to roll. Not saying that Alex is the answer...just that we can't really say he's not until we get some other things fixed first.

The team has tried to put the horse before the carriage (or however that saying goes). Instead of building from the inside out, they are going outside in. With all of our top 15 picks over the last several years, they have selected nothing but skill position players. I like the skill players we have, but they are not going to be able to do anything if the line sucks as bad as it does.
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Fantastic Thread. One of the best I've read in months...thanks guys.

It just points out that we need to focus more on the line than the QBs. Until we get a solid line, we can't really complain about our QB play. Now, if Alex starts getting 3-5 seconds consistantly and still can't perform his head needs to roll. Not saying that Alex is the answer...just that we can't really say he's not until we get some other things fixed first.

The team has tried to put the horse before the carriage (or however that saying goes). Instead of building from the inside out, they are going outside in. With all of our top 15 picks over the last several years, they have selected nothing but skill position players. I like the skill players we have, but they are not going to be able to do anything if the line sucks as bad as it does.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Fantastic Thread. One of the best I've read in months...thanks guys.

It just points out that we need to focus more on the line than the QBs. Until we get a solid line, we can't really complain about our QB play. Now, if Alex starts getting 3-5 seconds consistantly and still can't perform his head needs to roll. Not saying that Alex is the answer...just that we can't really say he's not until we get some other things fixed first.

The team has tried to put the horse before the carriage (or however that saying goes). Instead of building from the inside out, they are going outside in. With all of our top 15 picks over the last several years, they have selected nothing but skill position players. I like the skill players we have, but they are not going to be able to do anything if the line sucks as bad as it does.


I thinks it's more of a combination of both more than we think it is. MIN had terrible pass blocking until this year. NE had terrible pass blocking until Brady. DAL had terrible pass blocking until Romo. Peyton Manning saves his OL a lot. Big Ben IS one of the most sacked QB, so his OL must suck but he keep thriving. Cards OL sucked until Warner started playing well (same personnel).

It's a combination of both and confidence in the QB and good play by the QB can do wonders.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Fantastic Thread. One of the best I've read in months...thanks guys.

It just points out that we need to focus more on the line than the QBs. Until we get a solid line, we can't really complain about our QB play. Now, if Alex starts getting 3-5 seconds consistantly and still can't perform his head needs to roll. Not saying that Alex is the answer...just that we can't really say he's not until we get some other things fixed first.

The team has tried to put the horse before the carriage (or however that saying goes). Instead of building from the inside out, they are going outside in. With all of our top 15 picks over the last several years, they have selected nothing but skill position players. I like the skill players we have, but they are not going to be able to do anything if the line sucks as bad as it does.


I thinks it's more of a combination of both more than we think it is. MIN had terrible pass blocking until this year. NE had terrible pass blocking until Brady. DAL had terrible pass blocking until Romo. Peyton Manning saves his OL a lot. Big Ben IS one of the most sacked QB, so his OL must suck but he keep thriving. Cards OL sucked until Warner started playing well (same personnel).

It's a combination of both and confidence in the QB and good play by the QB can do wonders.

All of these teams had very good offensive lines (besides the steelers)before said QB's. What effect do you think the QB's confidence in the line has?
Yes, I have heard this around the net a bit... only from those who have an immense bias against Smith.

I look at it like this... if you have an already established QB suddenly playing under a poor OL, he can more likely overcome that. If you are talking about a rather young QB learning the scheme and developing as he goes, it would be extremely hard for said QB to accomplish this as adequately as desired.
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Originally posted by TheRatMan13:

The team has tried to put the horse before the carriage (or however that saying goes). Instead of building from the inside out, they are going outside in. With all of our top 15 picks over the last several years, they have selected nothing but skill position players. I like the skill players we have, but they are not going to be able to do anything if the line sucks as bad as it does.

'tis the truth. We're a good O-line away from being a Super Bowl team. We have a championship D (in large part thanks to the play of the line). We have two Pro-Bowl calibre players on offense (Davis and Gore). We have a young WR who I think will be a stud (Crabtree). QB is uncertain, and the #2 and #3 receivers are uncertain (though I really like what I saw of Hill).

If we can get a long term franchise player at LT and RT we'll be set. I think Heitmann is a great center. You can see him shifting right or left all the time to help out Baas or Rachal.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Yes, I have heard this around the net a bit... only from those who have an immense bias against Smith.

I look at it like this... if you have an already established QB suddenly playing under a poor OL, he can more likely overcome that. If you are talking about a rather young QB learning the scheme and developing as he goes, it would be extremely hard for said QB to accomplish this as adequately as desired.

True, however a pocket QB will fail behind a bad OL 99% of the time, which is one reason I believe Smith has been able to elevate his game a little because of his improvisation abilities, which will get even better in time. The OL gets fixed, and I think we will see an offense where 450 ypg won't be unusual.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Yes, I have heard this around the net a bit... only from those who have an immense bias against Smith.

I look at it like this... if you have an already established QB suddenly playing under a poor OL, he can more likely overcome that. If you are talking about a rather young QB learning the scheme and developing as he goes, it would be extremely hard for said QB to accomplish this as adequately as desired.

True, however a pocket QB will fail behind a bad OL 99% of the time, which is one reason I believe Smith has been able to elevate his game a little because of his improvisation abilities, which will get even better in time. The OL gets fixed, and I think we will see an offense where 450 ypg won't be unusual.

Guess most QBs are pocket passers... so maybe you just mean a pocket passer with the mobility to evade and move well. So if that's the case, yeah... even if you have a good and established QB, he may fail anyway behind a bad line if he's a "statue" back there. (and I don't mean Peyton... he actually has deceptively useful evasion moves in the pocket)
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Yes, I have heard this around the net a bit... only from those who have an immense bias against Smith.

I look at it like this... if you have an already established QB suddenly playing under a poor OL, he can more likely overcome that. If you are talking about a rather young QB learning the scheme and developing as he goes, it would be extremely hard for said QB to accomplish this as adequately as desired.

True, however a pocket QB will fail behind a bad OL 99% of the time, which is one reason I believe Smith has been able to elevate his game a little because of his improvisation abilities, which will get even better in time. The OL gets fixed, and I think we will see an offense where 450 ypg won't be unusual.

Guess most QBs are pocket passers... so maybe you just mean a pocket passer with the mobility to evade and move well. So if that's the case, yeah... even if you have a good and established QB, he may fail anyway behind a bad line if he's a "statue" back there. (and I don't mean Peyton... he actually has deceptively useful evasion moves in the pocket)

You're right, I meant a QB with mobility vs. a QB without. Alex has good awareness in the pocket and can move a little. He also has the arm to throw on the run. If he were a statue he would be dead already.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Yes, I have heard this around the net a bit... only from those who have an immense bias against Smith.

I look at it like this... if you have an already established QB suddenly playing under a poor OL, he can more likely overcome that. If you are talking about a rather young QB learning the scheme and developing as he goes, it would be extremely hard for said QB to accomplish this as adequately as desired.

True, however a pocket QB will fail behind a bad OL 99% of the time, which is one reason I believe Smith has been able to elevate his game a little because of his improvisation abilities, which will get even better in time. The OL gets fixed, and I think we will see an offense where 450 ypg won't be unusual.

Guess most QBs are pocket passers... so maybe you just mean a pocket passer with the mobility to evade and move well. So if that's the case, yeah... even if you have a good and established QB, he may fail anyway behind a bad line if he's a "statue" back there. (and I don't mean Peyton... he actually has deceptively useful evasion moves in the pocket)

You're right, I meant a QB with mobility vs. a QB without. Alex has good awareness in the pocket and can move a little. He also has the arm to throw on the run. If he were a statue he would be dead already.

Yeah, gotcha and agreed. I would actually go so far to say that Smith can move a lot better than "can move a little"... but extent isn't really worth debate.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
nice so it seems when alex gets at least 2 or 3 seconds in the pocket he gets a completition which is a good sign thx a lot and good job on the anyalsis

and it's embarassing that we cannot give him that amount of time consistently. this team needs to spend signifigant resources on the OL in the offseason.
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