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Close look at OL blocks and QB passes

Absolute best analysis post I have read in the zone so far. Thank you.......
Originally posted by smileyman:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Very impressive breakdown from OldMan, and excellent link by Calgary. Thanks to both.

Collectively, their postings show that this team still needs a LOT of help along the OL, which is disappointing since we have drafted four OL (Rachal, Staley, Baas, Snyder) in the first three rounds of the last 5 drafts (2005-2009).

From these four starters, we have one decent, not great, left tackle (Snyder), and three guys who rank toward the bottom of the starting linemen in the NFL. The poor drafting by this organization really falls into the lap of Scot and company.

I assume you mean Staley? Snyder plays RT and is horrid. I have hopes for both Baas and Rachal--I think both have showed good improvement.

Quote:

In addition, the free agent acquisitions through these same years have included.......zero starters on the OL in 2009.

Barry Sims was a FA pickup and is starting (due to Staley going down of course). He's been good so far I think.

Brain fart on writing Snyder, who doesn't play LT at all. I meant Staley. Thanks for the catch. Sims has been a good pickup, but is a bandaid for the time being, not a solution.
The comment "we burned a couple of 2nd rd picks on OL" is intriguing. Either we chose poorly, or we needed to pick OLs in the first rd, something i pray we do twice this draft. I hate to be repetitive, but "burning a 2nd rd pick on OL" is another way of saying mcCLown doesn't think it is that hard to pick up starting OL .Well, like so many other things, he is dead wrong on this score. Looking at that performance chart, we wasted our second rd picks with OL. IF we want a starting lineman, draft him in the first rd. Period. Scot may be a good scout, but as posted elsewhere, he has no business being GM. He is not guiding our HC, nor our asst coaches, he is not drafting for our obvious holes(OL), and he sure as hell did not draft to protect our #1 pick in the draft 5 yrs ago, which is absolutely unforgivably STUPID.

Our OL has to get better just to be average. Right now it ranks poorly and every fan on this board would say, "yup, that's the the way they look...awful" It is criminal in 5 yrs mcClown has not drafted our acquired all pro OLs. Hutchinson(vikes, dielman SD, and last yr faneca jets) We could have had anyone of those guys(maybe not dielman) but scot showed no interest in them, either. Put that along with allowing our best OT to drift over to miami, with a cavalier attitude,"Oh, we can get an OL with a late draft pick) just shows how incapable scot is of GMing this team. HE DOESN'T GET IT. You build a team around your lines. I know Wolf did that, and scot learned under him...but he sure as schidt missed that lesson.

Oldman, really cool breakdown, which just proved what we all have seen and bithced about. Two OLs in first rd of draft ,and FA an OL pro bowler. That is the minimum we need this yr. Our projects at OL have all failed, converting a DL into an OL failed. We need to draft quality....pure and simple, there it is.
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
As always

The o-line has performed horribly all year. I can't say how many times I've re-watched games and hit pause.....rewind.....then slow-motion and broke down every o-linemen's good plays and bad. They have been consistently bad. And I'm talking about against mediocre defensive fronts. If anyone actually watched line play and not just where the ball is going like oldman9er does, this should be very easy to see.

What's annoying (aside from the line play itself) is where the blame is consistently being placed. I see no threads on this forum talking about Gore's bad numbers. Why? Because everyone knows why that is. It's obvious. There are no holes for Gore to run into. When the running game cannot establish any momentum, it makes it really hard for the rest of the offense to succeed including the QB. I am neither a Smith basher nor an advocate. I try to call it as I see it. I see a drastic improvement by Smith, and that's impressive in itself considering the O-line has been playing like hot garbage.

If we are to place blame, the o-line as a whole has to be most accountable. After that problem is fixed, which will not be this year, all other facets of the offense can be judged more objectively.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
The comment "we burned a couple of 2nd rd picks on OL" is intriguing. Either we chose poorly, or we needed to pick OLs in the first rd, something i pray we do twice this draft. I hate to be repetitive, but "burning a 2nd rd pick on OL" is another way of saying mcCLown doesn't think it is that hard to pick up starting OL .Well, like so many other things, he is dead wrong on this score. Looking at that performance chart, we wasted our second rd picks with OL. IF we want a starting lineman, draft him in the first rd. Period. Scot may be a good scout, but as posted elsewhere, he has no business being GM. He is not guiding our HC, nor our asst coaches, he is not drafting for our obvious holes(OL), and he sure as hell did not draft to protect our #1 pick in the draft 5 yrs ago, which is absolutely unforgivably STUPID.

Our OL has to get better just to be average. Right now it ranks poorly and every fan on this board would say, "yup, that's the the way they look...awful" It is criminal in 5 yrs mcClown has not drafted our acquired all pro OLs. Hutchinson(vikes, dielman SD, and last yr faneca jets) We could have had anyone of those guys(maybe not dielman) but scot showed no interest in them, either. Put that along with allowing our best OT to drift over to miami, with a cavalier attitude,"Oh, we can get an OL with a late draft pick) just shows how incapable scot is of GMing this team. HE DOESN'T GET IT. You build a team around your lines. I know Wolf did that, and scot learned under him...but he sure as schidt missed that lesson.

Oldman, really cool breakdown, which just proved what we all have seen and bithced about. Two OLs in first rd of draft ,and FA an OL pro bowler. That is the minimum we need this yr. Our projects at OL have all failed, converting a DL into an OL failed. We need to draft quality....pure and simple, there it is.

Well said PD
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
As always

The o-line has performed horribly all year. I can't say how many times I've re-watched games and hit pause.....rewind.....then slow-motion and broke down every o-linemen's good plays and bad. They have been consistently bad. And I'm talking about against mediocre defensive fronts. If anyone actually watched line play and not just where the ball is going like oldman9er does, this should be very easy to see.

What's annoying (aside from the line play itself) is where the blame is consistently being placed. I see no threads on this forum talking about Gore's bad numbers. Why? Because everyone knows why that is. It's obvious. There are no holes for Gore to run into. When the running game cannot establish any momentum, it makes it really hard for the rest of the offense to succeed including the QB. I am neither a Smith basher nor an advocate. I try to call it as I see it. I see a drastic improvement by Smith, and that's impressive in itself considering the O-line has been playing like hot garbage.

If we are to place blame, the o-line as a whole has to be most accountable. After that problem is fixed, which will not be this year, all other facets of the offense can be judged more objectively.

Everyone in the zone needs to read this
Originally posted by oldman9er:
thanks, all... and to finish this out...

4th quarter

sh = shotgun ---------- sp = spread ----------- sb = singleback -------

65=Sims --- 64=Baas --- 66= Heitmann --- 62= Rachal --- 68= Snyder

1. sh - 2-3 step drop, 2 second pass, 4 DL rush- incomplete sideline pass to 84... Morgan slipped on his comeback route... 68 blocked in on LDT, thankfully 62 came outside to pick up the LDE closing in outside... 65 did fine with 21 watching to help... 64 and 66 did their job

2. sp - 5 step drop, 3.5 seconds, 4 DL rush - QB looks to at least 2 different targets before he flicks it out short to 21. 65 did just enough and had 21 watching for him at first... 65 should have put a better jolt on RDE, he was awfully close to getting QB... 64 anchored the RDT well... 62 was turned and hit the ground face-first embarassingly... thanks to 66 for handling the LDT just well enough... 68 did enough on the LDE, but dropped so deep that he put himself too close to QB... 21 gains 5 yds

3. sb - 5 rush - 5 step drop turns into more from protection breakdowns... QB rolls out left to buy 5 seconds (WRs do an awful job of finding open space)... 68 did well enough on the LDE... 62 picked up blitzing DB (62 looked SLOW off the snap)... 66 was gradually yet quickly going backwards from the RDT bull rush... which also put 64 embarassingly on his knees... 65 did well on the LDE... 21 got enough on the LT before running a short route, and the roll out negated any further impact

4. sh - 2 steps, 5 rush - QB look left to Hill on a slant... wisely does not throw, as he sees the DB underneath and waiting... the weakside collapses toward QB an he slips as he starts to back away... the extra rusher (DB) is bearing down on the right, so QB throws out of bounds. Either we need a deeper QB drop or better anchored OL... 65 was backed into QB's space quickly by the RDE... 64 faired only slightly better from the RDT... 66 was okay... 62 was blown back by the LDT + LDE quite a bit as the QB secured his own footing... ultimately convincing him to throw it away... 68 just... fell down. He either fell back from the right leg of 62 or just fell down on his own... it was... a sad sight reminding me of a drunkard that just... fell down on his arse.

* I really liked the quick QB-fake pass and draw to Gore on the following season... slick.
* Lots of running and time chewed up here... key block from VD to get MRob the 3rd and 3 conversion outside

* called back on defensive penalty... 2 backs, twin WRs - PA roll out... VD missed a "chuck" on the LDE... LDE shot straight through quickly to the roll out side... QB was in the air and throwing it, just off of 44's hand.

5. sh - 5 step drop... shovel pass to MRob to convert the 1st... All OL did well... 68 was beaten outside, but did just enough to wash him away from QB, who also stepped in.

6. sh - 3 step drop, 4 rush - QB forced to scramble... 68 did well on LDE... 62 did well on initial contact, but faile miserable then after, allowing the LDT to get around his inside shoulder and force QB to run... 66, 64, 65 all did their job...

* it looked for a second that QB could have pulled up and thrown a short pass to Morgan, but it's impossible to see if Morgan had someone lurking close by...

end of game

Bottom line is that the Bears were getting far too much success with just rushing their front 4... while throwing lots of coverage out there with everyone else. We continue to lose the battle in the trenches, and it's beyond depressing.


That's been the story all season long. This O-line can't pass block or run block on a consistent basis. Watch how much push these guys get on running plays and then compare that to another team's line. It's horrible to see just how bad our line is. A couple of good O-lines to compare to are playing right now on Thursday Night Football. Watch the Dolphins and Panthers run block and then watch our team run block. I'm sure everyone will agree that our O-line looks like a JV squad playing against varsity squads. Horrible, just horrible. And just think, Sing and Raye wanted this to be a power running team.....

And on passing downs they're just as bad, as noted by you in this thread. Nice work my friend.
Another excellent job my friend...keep it up!

Offensive line is the single biggest reason this team is struggling, followed by youth and inexperience. I know alot of people posting here are members of the generation of instant gratification and expect instant results, it just doesn't work out that way sometimes.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
The comment "we burned a couple of 2nd rd picks on OL" is intriguing. Either we chose poorly, or we needed to pick OLs in the first rd, something i pray we do twice this draft. I hate to be repetitive, but "burning a 2nd rd pick on OL" is another way of saying mcCLown doesn't think it is that hard to pick up starting OL .Well, like so many other things, he is dead wrong on this score. Looking at that performance chart, we wasted our second rd picks with OL. IF we want a starting lineman, draft him in the first rd. Period. Scot may be a good scout, but as posted elsewhere, he has no business being GM. He is not guiding our HC, nor our asst coaches, he is not drafting for our obvious holes(OL), and he sure as hell did not draft to protect our #1 pick in the draft 5 yrs ago, which is absolutely unforgivably STUPID.

Our OL has to get better just to be average. Right now it ranks poorly and every fan on this board would say, "yup, that's the the way they look...awful" It is criminal in 5 yrs mcClown has not drafted our acquired all pro OLs. Hutchinson(vikes, dielman SD, and last yr faneca jets) We could have had anyone of those guys(maybe not dielman) but scot showed no interest in them, either. Put that along with allowing our best OT to drift over to miami, with a cavalier attitude,"Oh, we can get an OL with a late draft pick) just shows how incapable scot is of GMing this team. HE DOESN'T GET IT. You build a team around your lines. I know Wolf did that, and scot learned under him...but he sure as schidt missed that lesson.

Oldman, really cool breakdown, which just proved what we all have seen and bithced about. Two OLs in first rd of draft ,and FA an OL pro bowler. That is the minimum we need this yr. Our projects at OL have all failed, converting a DL into an OL failed. We need to draft quality....pure and simple, there it is.

Homie we need to send this s**t into the front office.
Thanks all... and excellent stuff from both pasodoc9er and AXE as well. It was embarassing watching the Bears front 4 beating the heck outta our OL most of the night. I just can't believe that after all of this time... and all of these high draft picks... that this is what we are dealing with still.

Guess we gotta keep some faith and hope something clicks for that unit... in for more disappointment or not, I'm gonna keep the faith.
  • obx49
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Originally posted by oldman9er:
Thanks all... and excellent stuff from both pasodoc9er and AXE as well. It was embarassing watching the Bears front 4 beating the heck outta our OL most of the night. I just can't believe that after all of this time... and all of these high draft picks... that this is what we are dealing with still.

Guess we gotta keep some faith and hope something clicks for that unit... in for more disappointment or not, I'm gonna keep the faith.

That was awesome, that's the first time in a long time I have read a long post word for word. I hope you do it every week.
Its easier to just blame Alex.
outstanding details oldman9er,, i hope u can break down the packer game after sunday , as for the o-line ,
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)
T - Barry Sims (-3.6)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

It makes you wonder how much of this is d/t poor & predictable play-calling, zero adjustments, an inability to stay 1 up on the defense, lack of playmakers or underutilization of them, poor line coaching, the QB, focus, etc.

Is this really a lack of talent? The reason I ask is b/c if you take any of these guys and place them with 4 really good linemen on another team with good coaching and less predictable play-calling, do they succeed like a Justin Smiley or Kyle Kosier.

I think it has to be poor offensive line coaching and lack of talent. The playcalling is bad because the line limits how creative you can be with your playcalling.

Is it just me or did our o-line start declining ever since Bobb McKittrick passed away? We used to be able to regularly take street free agents and low round picks and he would turn them into pro bowlers.

Now we take high draft picks and turn them into scrubs.

Yes! McKittrick was a master at coaching the O-Line. Coaching has to be addressed during the offseason as well as O-line personnel.
First of all great work breaking down the play at the Line. I can't say enough how much stuff like this means to me. You won't see stuff like this on any other fan site so far that I am aware of. Probably because people think that it wouldn't go over well. The Anti-Egghead syndrome if you will.

2nd I think this just backs up what I've been saying all along about both Smith and the Line. That...

A) Smith needs time. Turning around into a Sack directly after the snap is not something that is conducive to being a solid QB. Also not the FAULT of the QB. Something that a QB can't read under Center either.

THe other is that these guys while the have their good moments don't seem to put it together on a consistent basis. Sims... I think his problem on the RT spot is that he doesn't know the unit well enough to blindly trust them to hold up. Maybe he's getting there now because he knows the LT spot better than the RT spot so he doesn't over analyze the assignment.

And These guys to a man don't seem to be receiving solid Coaching from the OL Coach. Maybe it's just me, but I think that this team needs a world class character as their Coach. Someone who inspires them. Cause this guy we have now doesn't seem to be doing that well at all.

~Ceadder

P.S. Now some of you may think I've lost my mind, but I think we need a Sumo Coach. Someone that can show that Mass up front how to remain LOW and stand guys up. Because I would be willing to bet that on just about every play where one of our guys got beat they were blocking high. That NEVER ends well unless the Defense left early.
[ Edited by Ceadderman on Nov 20, 2009 at 5:18 AM ]
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