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Close look at OL blocks and QB passes

Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

Those ratings make a lot of sense.
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

Wow...



It makes you want to rip your hair out

Greenbay's line is pretty bad, but not as bad as ours. We definitely need to draft Oline first and foremost this coming draft.
Very impressive breakdown from OldMan, and excellent link by Calgary. Thanks to both.

Collectively, their postings show that this team still needs a LOT of help along the OL, which is disappointing since we have drafted four OL (Rachal, Staley, Baas, Snyder) in the first three rounds of the last 5 drafts (2005-2009).

From these four starters, we have one decent, not great, left tackle (Staley), and three guys who rank toward the bottom of the starting linemen in the NFL. The poor drafting by this organization really falls into the lap of Scot and company.

In addition, the free agent acquisitions through these same years have included.......zero starters on the OL in 2009.

One more note. Thank God for Eric Heitmann, who ranks in the top tier of centers in the NFL according to the link provided by Calgary. Now, he should go out and fire his agent for that crappy extension he signed and demand money anywhere near the contract that Rams center Jason Brown picked up last year: 5 years/$37.5 million. Heitmann signed in 2008 for four years/$8.4 million. One of the best bargains in sports.

Eric Heitmann is still a good football player. And, we need to get some players who perform at his level.

Cheers.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 19, 2009 at 2:58 PM ]
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)
T - Barry Sims (-3.6)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

It makes you wonder how much of this is d/t poor & predictable play-calling, zero adjustments, an inability to stay 1 up on the defense, lack of playmakers or underutilization of them, poor line coaching, the QB, focus, etc.

Is this really a lack of talent? The reason I ask is b/c if you take any of these guys and place them with 4 really good linemen on another team with good coaching and less predictable play-calling, do they succeed like a Justin Smiley or Kyle Kosier.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)
T - Barry Sims (-3.6)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

It makes you wonder how much of this is d/t poor & predictable play-calling, zero adjustments, an inability to stay 1 up on the defense, lack of playmakers or underutilization of them, poor line coaching, the QB, focus, etc.

Is this really a lack of talent? The reason I ask is b/c if you take any of these guys and place them with 4 really good linemen on another team with good coaching and less predictable play-calling, do they succeed like a Justin Smiley or Kyle Kosier.

I think it has to be poor offensive line coaching and lack of talent. The playcalling is bad because the line limits how creative you can be with your playcalling.
  • CalgaryNiner
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)
T - Barry Sims (-3.6)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

It makes you wonder how much of this is d/t poor & predictable play-calling, zero adjustments, an inability to stay 1 up on the defense, lack of playmakers or underutilization of them, poor line coaching, the QB, focus, etc.

Is this really a lack of talent? The reason I ask is b/c if you take any of these guys and place them with 4 really good linemen on another team with good coaching and less predictable play-calling, do they succeed like a Justin Smiley or Kyle Kosier.

I think it has to be poor offensive line coaching and lack of talent. The playcalling is bad because the line limits how creative you can be with your playcalling.

Is it just me or did our o-line start declining ever since Bobb McKittrick passed away? We used to be able to regularly take street free agents and low round picks and he would turn them into pro bowlers.

Now we take high draft picks and turn them into scrubs.
[ Edited by CalgaryNiner on Nov 19, 2009 at 12:51 PM ]
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)
T - Barry Sims (-3.6)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

It makes you wonder how much of this is d/t poor & predictable play-calling, zero adjustments, an inability to stay 1 up on the defense, lack of playmakers or underutilization of them, poor line coaching, the QB, focus, etc.

Is this really a lack of talent? The reason I ask is b/c if you take any of these guys and place them with 4 really good linemen on another team with good coaching and less predictable play-calling, do they succeed like a Justin Smiley or Kyle Kosier.

I think it has to be poor offensive line coaching and lack of talent. The playcalling is bad because the line limits how creative you can be with your playcalling.

Is it just me or did our o-line start declining ever since Bobb McKittrick passed away? We used to be able to regularly take street free agents and low round picks and he would turn them into pro bowlers.

Now we take high draft picks and turn them into scrubs.

Yeah, this is exactly how I feel. Oh and why did we get rid of Smiley?
  • smileyman
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Very impressive breakdown from OldMan, and excellent link by Calgary. Thanks to both.

Collectively, their postings show that this team still needs a LOT of help along the OL, which is disappointing since we have drafted four OL (Rachal, Staley, Baas, Snyder) in the first three rounds of the last 5 drafts (2005-2009).

From these four starters, we have one decent, not great, left tackle (Snyder), and three guys who rank toward the bottom of the starting linemen in the NFL. The poor drafting by this organization really falls into the lap of Scot and company.

I assume you mean Staley? Snyder plays RT and is horrid. I have hopes for both Baas and Rachal--I think both have showed good improvement.

Quote:

In addition, the free agent acquisitions through these same years have included.......zero starters on the OL in 2009.

Barry Sims was a FA pickup and is starting (due to Staley going down of course). He's been good so far I think.
Originally posted by Goldtimer:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)
T - Barry Sims (-3.6)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

It makes you wonder how much of this is d/t poor & predictable play-calling, zero adjustments, an inability to stay 1 up on the defense, lack of playmakers or underutilization of them, poor line coaching, the QB, focus, etc.

Is this really a lack of talent? The reason I ask is b/c if you take any of these guys and place them with 4 really good linemen on another team with good coaching and less predictable play-calling, do they succeed like a Justin Smiley or Kyle Kosier.

I think it has to be poor offensive line coaching and lack of talent. The playcalling is bad because the line limits how creative you can be with your playcalling.

Is it just me or did our o-line start declining ever since Bobb McKittrick passed away? We used to be able to regularly take street free agents and low round picks and he would turn them into pro bowlers.

Now we take high draft picks and turn them into scrubs.

Yeah, this is exactly how I feel. Oh and why did we get rid of Smiley?

Cuz Nolan and Mcloughan thought they should replace a quick guard that could pull with a fat/slow guard that only pulls on jerseys when DT's blow past him
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by Goldtimer:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by CalgaryNiner:
I'm not sure if this website has been posted before here but I recently stumbled upon it while reading Peter King on SI. Basically, it's a bunch of stat junkies who break down EVERY play of EVERY game and rate players on their performance according to some defined criteria.

Pro Football Focus

According to them, here's the breakdown of our O-line so far this season. A rating of 0 means they are playing at an average level for their position (T, G, or C) in comparison to the rest of the league.

LT - Joe Staley (-0.9)
LG - David Baas (-8.9)
C - Eric Heitmann (+6.6)
RG - Chilo Rachal (-8.6)
RT - Adam Snyder (-17.9)

T - Tony Pashos (+3.0)
G - Tony Wragge (+0.2)
T - Barry Sims (-3.6)

This seems pretty intuitive to me as it seems a lot of the pressure is coming from the right side of the line pretty consistently. You don't even want to see Snyder's rating from '08...

It makes you wonder how much of this is d/t poor & predictable play-calling, zero adjustments, an inability to stay 1 up on the defense, lack of playmakers or underutilization of them, poor line coaching, the QB, focus, etc.

Is this really a lack of talent? The reason I ask is b/c if you take any of these guys and place them with 4 really good linemen on another team with good coaching and less predictable play-calling, do they succeed like a Justin Smiley or Kyle Kosier.

I think it has to be poor offensive line coaching and lack of talent. The playcalling is bad because the line limits how creative you can be with your playcalling.

Is it just me or did our o-line start declining ever since Bobb McKittrick passed away? We used to be able to regularly take street free agents and low round picks and he would turn them into pro bowlers.

Now we take high draft picks and turn them into scrubs.

Yeah, this is exactly how I feel. Oh and why did we get rid of Smiley?

Cuz Nolan and Mcloughan thought they should replace a quick guard that could pull with a fat/slow guard that only pulls on jerseys when DT's blow past him

True and looking back it was really a poor move. If you draft them and they are good then you resign them. I think Scot overacted after the year of Hostler and just labeled anybody on the offense as expendable. When before that year Smiley was playing great and wasn't giving up any sacks.
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Oldman;
Thanks for the detailed analysis. It looks clearly as though our oline is not anywhere near quality. We need some significant revamping. Just as a thought to get your feedback. Is Heitmann a quality center. By this I am asking if he had support from the right and left guard would he hold up? Staley seems to be ok and if Heitmann is ok then we only need RT and LG and RG. Any thoughts along these lines?

Heitmann is definitely a quality OC, and definitely would be even more solid with better play from the OGs on each side. The only flaws for Heitmann comes down to strength. He may have good strength, but there are times that it just doesn't present itself in his play. He's not gonna drive too many DTs off the LOS far, is what I'm getting at. He also could get stronger in the lower body so he can anchor better. More often than I like to see, he can get gradually shoved back into the pocket.

This is just being overly critical though.... he's pretty good.

We lost the battle in the trenches often... making the Bears L look more incredible than they should have. The intensity they showed was not matched by our OL. I am turning an evil eye to our OL coach, Chris Foerster.
I think its a combination of our o-line coach and the OL itself.

If we had a top 10 oline how many games would we have won? I would say the Vikings game and the Colts game for sure. We would have simply been able to run the ball more and take up time.

Thanks for the analysis and the link.
It is obvious that Chilo Rachal is not ready at this point. Unless he is asked to power run block he struggles with constantly being off balance. Baas is having an issue with technique at times but his struggles would be masked if Heitman wasn't always having to cover Rachal's ass. Many have pointed out how Barry Sims performs much better on the left side. I for one thought Staley's best year with us was when he played right tackle. I wonder if moving Staley into RT upon his return and giving Wragge or Snyder the spot at RT would give us our best five at the best position for them to succeed.

I used the link to confirm what I already assumed. Looking at the ratings of the Patriots OL, only one player on the entire line is below average. And he still rates better than all of ours.

Patriots OL
Mankins (4.1)
Kaczur (3.9)
Neal (20.6)
Koppen (7.8)
Vollmer (9.4)
Light (-3.8)

I then took a look at GB's OL, here is what it looks like by position

LT: Clifton (-6.3 overall, -.06 in pass protection)
LG: Colledge (-7.8 overall, -11.4 in pass protection)
C: Wells (1.3 overall, 1.9 in pass protection)
RG: Sitton (11.1 overall, 8.6 in pass protection)
RT: Barbe (-14.1 overall, -13.6 in pass protection)

Their line look alot like ours actually with a strong center and a decent Tackle. If I were the Niners I would find away to put pressure on the outsides esspecially on the left side. Justin Smith and Parys Haralson should be factors all day long.
I'm not a big Scot basher, but looking at this OL does p*ss me off. At one point, we had the following OG's on the roster (or PS) and let them walk so Baas & Rachal could start:

Justin Smiley (-1.7)
Harvey Dahl (2.5)
Kyle Kosier (12.1)

Dahl & Kosier, in particular, could be starting for us right now at VERY reasonable prices. What a waste...