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Blame Alex thread

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I blame Alex for not being able to block for himself, or catch the passes he did manage to get off, for not being out there to stop the guys running free through the defense, for not calling his own plays, for being drafted by Mike Nolan onto the worst niners team in 30+ years, for getting his shoulder shredded by a 330 pound lineman, global warming, teenage pregnancy, the national deficit, Obama, Sarah Palin, 9/11, social inequity, the Enron debacle, the Iraq war, Afghanistan, cancer, illiteracy, H1N1, unemployment, the decline of the dollar, and finally the never ending stream of ignorant posts about him on these message boards.

In that case, then I give credit only to the OL, WR, RBs, FB, and TEs in that almost comeback 3 TD second half.

We can go either way.

Honestly Joe, you'd probably be quite shocked at how little I care who you give credit to. You and some of the other posters here have proven to me beyond a doubt that you are pushing a personal agenda, and no doubt possess so little knowledge about the game of football that most here probably feel the same way. All I have to say is that JTO is the Man...wait maybe it is the Shaun Hill Starship...I don't think we have a great QB on the roster, but they do not grow on trees. You guys trying to blame one person for the piss poor play of the TEAM this past game are shortsighted and makes you guys look stupid. Just trying to keep you from once again making a fool of yourself, but hey...whatever lets you sleep at night.


The "personal agenda" we seek is called WINNING.

Dont you people get it ? The guy needs EVERYTHING to be perfect for things to go his way. One penalty.......drive over. One sack....drive over. Once the opposition takes the lead.......game over. Put him in a stress situation......he comes up short. Dont take my word for it. Go watch the gamefilm. And not just from Sing/Raye's playbook. Take a trip in Niner history and check his track record with Nolan/McCarthy, Nolan/Turner, Nolan/Hostler. It's the same thing over and over. The guy has done nothing (bar the Arizona and Seattle games in 06) that would make him seem like a franchise QB.

Let me repeat.......he has done NOTHING that would make him seem like a franchise QB. So instead of trying to fix eveything around him so that it is picture perfect.......why not find someone else that can execute in a flawed offense ? Dont guys like Brees and Favre work with mediocre receiving groups ? Dont guys like Rodgers have success with poor olines ? Dont guys like Flacco excel in conservative offenses ? Why can all these guys have success in "less than perfect" situations, but Alex needs everything to be just right.

Seriously......I just dont get how you people can accept losing for 7 years, and STILL be willing to risk another season (eg 2010) of possibly exiting early on......

Give a solution. What free agent QB is out there that can be a franchise QB or at least get them into the playoffs next year? Kolb? Hard to tell with him and if he is for real I doubt Philly is going to be eager to deal him. Davis might well turn into a solid NFL QB but do you think he is ready next year? Obviously the Niners don't because they sure are not rushing him. They are the ones who see him everyday. Are we willing to risk next season on the gamble he would be? Which of the college QBS are you confident can step in behind this offensive line and make a difference that will get the Niners to the playoffs next year? Who? What do you want the Niners to do? Do you suggest putting Hill in there again for next season?

This team was gutted earlier this decade. It was the bill that came due mainly thanks to Carmen Policy (with Eddie D's backing) in the 90s. The problem was compounded by hiring that jack a** Donuhue who carried out the gutting but was incapable of drafting any talent or running the team with any semblance of competence. Difficult to run a team over the phone from Newport Beach. Then the hiring of Nolan not only as coach but also as GM. Disatrous. It was going to be bad no matter what. For the first few years this decade the Niners were paying more of their cap to players no longer on the team than to the ones that were actually on it. It didn't have to be as bad as it has turned out to be but it was going to be bad.

I am actually more optimistic about the Niners than I have been in awhile. Crabtree and Davis are becoming real playmakers in the passing game. We haven't seen that in a long, long, time. Alex has at times looked very good. Better than he ever did in his earlier incarnation years ago. Why does there have to be a definite judgement on him just 4 1/2 games in? Again, tell me what are the Niners better options in the near future? Alex's development gives the Niners the best chance of going to the playoffs next year. You will grant he is developing but argue that it isn't near enough. You are ready the write the last chapter. Some of us are not. But those of us who think Alex is developing into a legiitmate quarterback realize that this would be the best possible thing for the Niners. A lot of you feel the Niners have to pull the cord. But what where do we get the quarterback who will likely get the Niners into the playoffs next year?
Originally posted by DaNiners:
Hail Jesus, someone who actually knows something about football and does not allow a less than decent QB to go unscathed. Smith's decision on his interception yesterday was awful. He had time and overthrew the receiver by five yards...just terrible. In the first half he caused at least two or three of those sacks by hanging on to the ball or running into the tackler. Terrible!

He did next to nothing against the Bears, he was horrible against the Titans....so other than two halves of football (where we were down by twenty or more points), what is it that makes some of you think Smith is worth the sh*t on the bottom of my shoes. Seriously, he is not a franchise QB and never will be. If you don't have one, you draft one.

lol
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I blame Alex for not being able to block for himself, or catch the passes he did manage to get off, for not being out there to stop the guys running free through the defense, for not calling his own plays, for being drafted by Mike Nolan onto the worst niners team in 30+ years, for getting his shoulder shredded by a 330 pound lineman, global warming, teenage pregnancy, the national deficit, Obama, Sarah Palin, 9/11, social inequity, the Enron debacle, the Iraq war, Afghanistan, cancer, illiteracy, H1N1, unemployment, the decline of the dollar, and finally the never ending stream of ignorant posts about him on these message boards.

In that case, then I give credit only to the OL, WR, RBs, FB, and TEs in that almost comeback 3 TD second half.

We can go either way.

Honestly Joe, you'd probably be quite shocked at how little I care who you give credit to. You and some of the other posters here have proven to me beyond a doubt that you are pushing a personal agenda, and no doubt possess so little knowledge about the game of football that most here probably feel the same way. All I have to say is that JTO is the Man...wait maybe it is the Shaun Hill Starship...I don't think we have a great QB on the roster, but they do not grow on trees. You guys trying to blame one person for the piss poor play of the TEAM this past game are shortsighted and makes you guys look stupid. Just trying to keep you from once again making a fool of yourself, but hey...whatever lets you sleep at night.


The "personal agenda" we seek is called WINNING.

Dont you people get it ? The guy needs EVERYTHING to be perfect for things to go his way. One penalty.......drive over. One sack....drive over. Once the opposition takes the lead.......game over. Put him in a stress situation......he comes up short. Dont take my word for it. Go watch the gamefilm. And not just from Sing/Raye's playbook. Take a trip in Niner history and check his track record with Nolan/McCarthy, Nolan/Turner, Nolan/Hostler. It's the same thing over and over. The guy has done nothing (bar the Arizona and Seattle games in 06) that would make him seem like a franchise QB.

Let me repeat.......he has done NOTHING that would make him seem like a franchise QB. So instead of trying to fix eveything around him so that it is picture perfect.......why not find someone else that can execute in a flawed offense ? Dont guys like Brees and Favre work with mediocre receiving groups ? Dont guys like Rodgers have success with poor olines ? Dont guys like Flacco excel in conservative offenses ? Why can all these guys have success in "less than perfect" situations, but Alex needs everything to be just right.

Seriously......I just dont get how you people can accept losing for 7 years, and STILL be willing to risk another season (eg 2010) of possibly exiting early on......

I don't agree. All of his 3 TDs in the Green Bay game were on 3rd-down or 4th-down. Not everything has to be perfect, but if you watch a lot of other teams, usually when they get sacked on 2nd-and-10 which leads to a 3rd-and-16, that ruins the drive. They'll call either a draw or a screen like 90% of the time because everyone knows that 3rd-and-16s are extremely difficult to convert. It's not his fault his OC and OL put him in these situations.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be blamed, but I think he gets a lot of the blame because it's easier to blame the QB.

Fair enough. But can you honestly tell me that you dont feel like our chances have slimmed every time we get a false start penalty ? You dont think Alex is a reason behind this ? And before you answer that....think back to 06. When we got all those offensive holding penalties (eg Kwame), did you feel comfortable with Smith on 3rd and long ?

Comeon now. Lets be real for once. The guy is mediocre at best. He had 2 chances against Tennessee to bring us back at the end. Perfect situation for all of you:

1) spread offense
2) oline protection

What did he do ? He didnt even give the team a chance. Threw 2 INTs right off the bat and cost us the game.

Why do you guys turn on the blinders in those situations ?

Because for 5 years, the other QBs on the roster have been even worse, so all we can say is, "Well, he's learning and trying to improve. It's understandable, because he's young."

Bring in a real QB for once, and I'd have no problem benching or cutting him. Right now, he's all we have. Yes, he did have a chance to beat the Titans. Yes, he failed. That's just one game though. What about the other games? Can you really blame him? Can you blame him that we come out like a bunch of pussies and then only show up for the 2nd half? I want to see Smith operate in the spread offense for 4 quarters before I conclude anything. I wouldn't be surprised if he throws for 350+ yards. I really believe that a big chunk of the problem is the coaching.

QBs fail. McNabb had a chance to send the Eagles to the Super Bowl last season, but couldn't. He also lost a Super Bowl. You aren't going to win every single game. Sure, a lot of Smith supporters turn the blinders on, but a lot of Smith haters do the same when it comes to everything else around him. The guy is in a horrible situation and always has been.
Originally posted by 49erForLife420:
Originally posted by DaNiners:
Hail Jesus, someone who actually knows something about football and does not allow a less than decent QB to go unscathed. Smith's decision on his interception yesterday was awful. He had time and overthrew the receiver by five yards...just terrible. In the first half he caused at least two or three of those sacks by hanging on to the ball or running into the tackler. Terrible!

He did next to nothing against the Bears, he was horrible against the Titans....so other than two halves of football (where we were down by twenty or more points), what is it that makes some of you think Smith is worth the sh*t on the bottom of my shoes. Seriously, he is not a franchise QB and never will be. If you don't have one, you draft one.

lol

Smith wasnt bad against the Colts in the first half. We went into half time with a LEAD. Then Sing and Rayes balls shrunk and we lose 18-14. Meanwhile, the Colts stay aggressive. They didnt look at their first half and go, "hmmm maybe we should become conservative since our aggressive playcalling isnt working." No...they played to WIN.


THAT is the fundamental problem that goes FAR beyond Alex Smith, Shaun Hill, Nate Davis, Steve Young, Bono, etc etc etc I dont care who. We have a PHILOSOPHICAL and CULTURAL PROBLEM with our organization. Until that changes...nothing will change on the field.
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I blame Alex for not being able to block for himself, or catch the passes he did manage to get off, for not being out there to stop the guys running free through the defense, for not calling his own plays, for being drafted by Mike Nolan onto the worst niners team in 30+ years, for getting his shoulder shredded by a 330 pound lineman, global warming, teenage pregnancy, the national deficit, Obama, Sarah Palin, 9/11, social inequity, the Enron debacle, the Iraq war, Afghanistan, cancer, illiteracy, H1N1, unemployment, the decline of the dollar, and finally the never ending stream of ignorant posts about him on these message boards.

In that case, then I give credit only to the OL, WR, RBs, FB, and TEs in that almost comeback 3 TD second half.

We can go either way.

Honestly Joe, you'd probably be quite shocked at how little I care who you give credit to. You and some of the other posters here have proven to me beyond a doubt that you are pushing a personal agenda, and no doubt possess so little knowledge about the game of football that most here probably feel the same way. All I have to say is that JTO is the Man...wait maybe it is the Shaun Hill Starship...I don't think we have a great QB on the roster, but they do not grow on trees. You guys trying to blame one person for the piss poor play of the TEAM this past game are shortsighted and makes you guys look stupid. Just trying to keep you from once again making a fool of yourself, but hey...whatever lets you sleep at night.


The "personal agenda" we seek is called WINNING.

Dont you people get it ? The guy needs EVERYTHING to be perfect for things to go his way. One penalty.......drive over. One sack....drive over. Once the opposition takes the lead.......game over. Put him in a stress situation......he comes up short. Dont take my word for it. Go watch the gamefilm. And not just from Sing/Raye's playbook. Take a trip in Niner history and check his track record with Nolan/McCarthy, Nolan/Turner, Nolan/Hostler. It's the same thing over and over. The guy has done nothing (bar the Arizona and Seattle games in 06) that would make him seem like a franchise QB.

Let me repeat.......he has done NOTHING that would make him seem like a franchise QB. So instead of trying to fix eveything around him so that it is picture perfect.......why not find someone else that can execute in a flawed offense ? Dont guys like Brees and Favre work with mediocre receiving groups ? Dont guys like Rodgers have success with poor olines ? Dont guys like Flacco excel in conservative offenses ? Why can all these guys have success in "less than perfect" situations, but Alex needs everything to be just right.

Seriously......I just dont get how you people can accept losing for 7 years, and STILL be willing to risk another season (eg 2010) of possibly exiting early on......

Give a solution. What free agent QB is out there that can be a franchise QB or at least get them into the playoffs next year? Kolb? Hard to tell with him and if he is for real I doubt Philly is going to be eager to deal him. Davis might well turn into a solid NFL QB but do you think he is ready next year? Obviously the Niners don't because they sure are not rushing him. They are the ones who see him everyday. Are we willing to risk next season on the gamble he would be? Which of the college QBS are you confident can step in behind this offensive line and make a difference that will get the Niners to the playoffs next year? Who? What do you want the Niners to do? Do you suggest putting Hill in there again for next season?

This team was gutted earlier this decade. It was the bill that came due mainly thanks to Carmen Policy (with Eddie D's backing) in the 90s. The problem was compounded by hiring that jack a** Donuhue who carried out the gutting but was incapable of drafting any talent or running the team with any semblance of competence. Difficult to run a team over the phone from Newport Beach. Then the hiring of Nolan not only as coach but also as GM. Disatrous. It was going to be bad no matter what. For the first few years this decade the Niners were paying more of their cap to players no longer on the team than to the ones that were actually on it. It didn't have to be as bad as it has turned out to be but it was going to be bad.

I am actually more optimistic about the Niners than I have been in awhile. Crabtree and Davis are becoming real playmakers in the passing game. We haven't seen that in a long, long, time. Alex has at times looked very good. Better than he ever did in his earlier incarnation years ago. Why does there have to be a definite judgement on him just 4 1/2 games in? Again, tell me what are the Niners better options in the near future? Alex's development gives the Niners the best chance of going to the playoffs next year. You will grant he is developing but argue that it isn't near enough. You are ready the write the last chapter. Some of us are not. But those of us who think Alex is developing into a legiitmate quarterback realize that this would be the best possible thing for the Niners. A lot of you feel the Niners have to pull the cord. But what where do we get the quarterback who will likely get the Niners into the playoffs next year?


1) in regards to Smith's development

-You're talking about "development" for a guy thats been in the league for 5 years. I can buy this argument if you refer to Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco, guys that are still learning the ropes of the game. But a guy thats been playing for 5 years ? Comeon now. And bench time counts as playing time. After all, everyone counts Rodgers time on the bench as "learning", no ? You wouldnt exactly call him a "developing" player, would you ? Im sorry, but Alex's time to "develop" is over. He's had 2 years on-field experience, and 2 years off-field to learn the game. If he still needs fine tuning at this point, it's a lost cause. And again, when you talk about progression as a player, there's not much difference in Alex's play from 09 from 06. Sure, he shows more maturity and look more comfortable in the pocket. But still, 5 years post-draft, he's staring down receivers, throwing errand balls, and making costly mistakes at inopportune times. And worse, he still hasnt demonstrated consistency in terms of playing a complete game AND bringing the team back from behind. Those are all poor signs, my friend. I dont know exactly how you expect him to emerge as a dominating QB in this league at this point. Greatness cannot be taught.

2) in terms of starting Nate Davis

-I think Davis has a great opportunity to be the future for this franchise; but I also think it would be wise to test his strengths/weaknesses this season, especially if it ends up a wash. You guys want Alex to start ? Fine. Keep him in for now. I dont have a voodoo doll that Im stabbing everytime he drops back for a pass. He'll do his own damage. But I do feel Davis deserves a shot in the last 2-3 games for assessment purposes. Then we should have a better idea of how aggressive we need to be in the draft/FA.

3) in terms of the near future

-If Davis demonstrates that he is a viable player, would i slot him in as starter next season ? Nope. Absolutely not. And no, it has nothing to do with how we "ruined" Alex's career (which is false, cause it sure as hell didnt ruin Manning as a rookie starter). Rather, I think we could bring Davis along slowly. Let him learn from the bench as a backup; pick up the speed of the game. Learn the ins and outs.

4) the solution ?

-IMO (emphasis on IMO), we pick up a FA. There's no point in drafting a QB and then trying to develop both him and Davis. Kills the point and also nullifies the "bridging" of current talent to future talent (eg NDavis). So IMO, we need to go out and pick up a free agent. Unfortunately, there are slim pickings this offseason. The only choices I can come up with are Jeff Garcia and Michael Vick. Both have questionable talent. Both have come up short in their careers at multiple levels. However, both have led playoff caliber teams, and both have had considerable success on those teams. Whats the purpose ? For one, I think both would be an upgrade over our current QBs. Garcia and Vick are both mobile, can spread defenses, and use personal attributes in the passing attack. Vick brinngs a strong arm and that could mean a more vertical attack with Crabtree and Jacobs/Morgan. He can also keep the defense honest with his legs. He may not be the runner he was 4 years ago, but then again.....Cunningham, Flutie, and Steve Young still forced defenses to keep a QB spy even later on in their careers. Garcia, not so strong armed, is more accurate. In a conservative offense, where you're relying on quick outs and short slants, he can execute. Plus, he has the ability to move the pocket. Are either of them likely to take the team to the Superbowl ? Probably not. BUT, they make us MORE competitive, and I think either could make our team an instant playoff contender. Especially if we keep the defense in tact and improve our oline.

The most important thing, however, is that we use the time to develop Davis. So that in 2 years, he can take over SMOOTHLY from either of the two (and if Vick pans out, Davis can serve as a viable backup). The point is that Davis takes over a team that is flowing and hitting on all cylinders, rather than a team in turmoil with no identity, which is likely if we continue with Smith and/or Hill.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I blame Alex for not being able to block for himself, or catch the passes he did manage to get off, for not being out there to stop the guys running free through the defense, for not calling his own plays, for being drafted by Mike Nolan onto the worst niners team in 30+ years, for getting his shoulder shredded by a 330 pound lineman, global warming, teenage pregnancy, the national deficit, Obama, Sarah Palin, 9/11, social inequity, the Enron debacle, the Iraq war, Afghanistan, cancer, illiteracy, H1N1, unemployment, the decline of the dollar, and finally the never ending stream of ignorant posts about him on these message boards.

In that case, then I give credit only to the OL, WR, RBs, FB, and TEs in that almost comeback 3 TD second half.

We can go either way.

Honestly Joe, you'd probably be quite shocked at how little I care who you give credit to. You and some of the other posters here have proven to me beyond a doubt that you are pushing a personal agenda, and no doubt possess so little knowledge about the game of football that most here probably feel the same way. All I have to say is that JTO is the Man...wait maybe it is the Shaun Hill Starship...I don't think we have a great QB on the roster, but they do not grow on trees. You guys trying to blame one person for the piss poor play of the TEAM this past game are shortsighted and makes you guys look stupid. Just trying to keep you from once again making a fool of yourself, but hey...whatever lets you sleep at night.


The "personal agenda" we seek is called WINNING.

Dont you people get it ? The guy needs EVERYTHING to be perfect for things to go his way. One penalty.......drive over. One sack....drive over. Once the opposition takes the lead.......game over. Put him in a stress situation......he comes up short. Dont take my word for it. Go watch the gamefilm. And not just from Sing/Raye's playbook. Take a trip in Niner history and check his track record with Nolan/McCarthy, Nolan/Turner, Nolan/Hostler. It's the same thing over and over. The guy has done nothing (bar the Arizona and Seattle games in 06) that would make him seem like a franchise QB.

Let me repeat.......he has done NOTHING that would make him seem like a franchise QB. So instead of trying to fix eveything around him so that it is picture perfect.......why not find someone else that can execute in a flawed offense ? Dont guys like Brees and Favre work with mediocre receiving groups ? Dont guys like Rodgers have success with poor olines ? Dont guys like Flacco excel in conservative offenses ? Why can all these guys have success in "less than perfect" situations, but Alex needs everything to be just right.

Seriously......I just dont get how you people can accept losing for 7 years, and STILL be willing to risk another season (eg 2010) of possibly exiting early on......

Give a solution. What free agent QB is out there that can be a franchise QB or at least get them into the playoffs next year? Kolb? Hard to tell with him and if he is for real I doubt Philly is going to be eager to deal him. Davis might well turn into a solid NFL QB but do you think he is ready next year? Obviously the Niners don't because they sure are not rushing him. They are the ones who see him everyday. Are we willing to risk next season on the gamble he would be? Which of the college QBS are you confident can step in behind this offensive line and make a difference that will get the Niners to the playoffs next year? Who? What do you want the Niners to do? Do you suggest putting Hill in there again for next season?

This team was gutted earlier this decade. It was the bill that came due mainly thanks to Carmen Policy (with Eddie D's backing) in the 90s. The problem was compounded by hiring that jack a** Donuhue who carried out the gutting but was incapable of drafting any talent or running the team with any semblance of competence. Difficult to run a team over the phone from Newport Beach. Then the hiring of Nolan not only as coach but also as GM. Disatrous. It was going to be bad no matter what. For the first few years this decade the Niners were paying more of their cap to players no longer on the team than to the ones that were actually on it. It didn't have to be as bad as it has turned out to be but it was going to be bad.

I am actually more optimistic about the Niners than I have been in awhile. Crabtree and Davis are becoming real playmakers in the passing game. We haven't seen that in a long, long, time. Alex has at times looked very good. Better than he ever did in his earlier incarnation years ago. Why does there have to be a definite judgement on him just 4 1/2 games in? Again, tell me what are the Niners better options in the near future? Alex's development gives the Niners the best chance of going to the playoffs next year. You will grant he is developing but argue that it isn't near enough. You are ready the write the last chapter. Some of us are not. But those of us who think Alex is developing into a legiitmate quarterback realize that this would be the best possible thing for the Niners. A lot of you feel the Niners have to pull the cord. But what where do we get the quarterback who will likely get the Niners into the playoffs next year?


1) in regards to Smith's development

-You're talking about "development" for a guy thats been in the league for 5 years. I can buy this argument if you refer to Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco, guys that are still learning the ropes of the game. But a guy thats been playing for 5 years ? Comeon now. And bench time counts as playing time. After all, everyone counts Rodgers time on the bench as "learning", no ? You wouldnt exactly call him a "developing" player, would you ? Im sorry, but Alex's time to "develop" is over. He's had 2 years on-field experience, and 2 years off-field to learn the game. If he still needs fine tuning at this point, it's a lost cause. And again, when you talk about progression as a player, there's not much difference in Alex's play from 09 from 06. Sure, he shows more maturity and look more comfortable in the pocket. But still, 5 years post-draft, he's staring down receivers, throwing errand balls, and making costly mistakes at inopportune times. And worse, he still hasnt demonstrated consistency in terms of playing a complete game AND bringing the team back from behind. Those are all poor signs, my friend. I dont know exactly how you expect him to emerge as a dominating QB in this league at this point. Greatness cannot be taught.

2) in terms of starting Nate Davis

-I think Davis has a great opportunity to be the future for this franchise; but I also think it would be wise to test his strengths/weaknesses this season, especially if it ends up a wash. You guys want Alex to start ? Fine. Keep him in for now. I dont have a voodoo doll that Im stabbing everytime he drops back for a pass. He'll do his own damage. But I do feel Davis deserves a shot in the last 2-3 games for assessment purposes. Then we should have a better idea of how aggressive we need to be in the draft/FA.

3) in terms of the near future

-If Davis demonstrates that he is a viable player, would i slot him in as starter next season ? Nope. Absolutely not. And no, it has nothing to do with how we "ruined" Alex's career (which is false, cause it sure as hell didnt ruin Manning as a rookie starter). Rather, I think we could bring Davis along slowly. Let him learn from the bench as a backup; pick up the speed of the game. Learn the ins and outs.

4) the solution ?

-IMO (emphasis on IMO), we pick up a FA. There's no point in drafting a QB and then trying to develop both him and Davis. Kills the point and also nullifies the "bridging" of current talent to future talent (eg NDavis). So IMO, we need to go out and pick up a free agent. Unfortunately, there are slim pickings this offseason. The only choices I can come up with are Jeff Garcia and Michael Vick. Both have questionable talent. Both have come up short in their careers at multiple levels. However, both have led playoff caliber teams, and both have had considerable success on those teams. Whats the purpose ? For one, I think both would be an upgrade over our current QBs. Garcia and Vick are both mobile, can spread defenses, and use personal attributes in the passing attack. Vick brinngs a strong arm and that could mean a more vertical attack with Crabtree and Jacobs/Morgan. He can also keep the defense honest with his legs. He may not be the runner he was 4 years ago, but then again.....Cunningham, Flutie, and Steve Young still forced defenses to keep a QB spy even later on in their careers. Garcia, not so strong armed, is more accurate. In a conservative offense, where you're relying on quick outs and short slants, he can execute. Plus, he has the ability to move the pocket. Are either of them likely to take the team to the Superbowl ? Probably not. BUT, they make us MORE competitive, and I think either could make our team an instant playoff contender. Especially if we keep the defense in tact and improve our oline.

The most important thing, however, is that we use the time to develop Davis. So that in 2 years, he can take over SMOOTHLY from either of the two (and if Vick pans out, Davis can serve as a viable backup). The point is that Davis takes over a team that is flowing and hitting on all cylinders, rather than a team in turmoil with no identity, which is likely if we continue with Smith and/or Hill.

We may disagree, but I will give you credit, you answered the question. Good post.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I blame Alex for not being able to block for himself, or catch the passes he did manage to get off, for not being out there to stop the guys running free through the defense, for not calling his own plays, for being drafted by Mike Nolan onto the worst niners team in 30+ years, for getting his shoulder shredded by a 330 pound lineman, global warming, teenage pregnancy, the national deficit, Obama, Sarah Palin, 9/11, social inequity, the Enron debacle, the Iraq war, Afghanistan, cancer, illiteracy, H1N1, unemployment, the decline of the dollar, and finally the never ending stream of ignorant posts about him on these message boards.

In that case, then I give credit only to the OL, WR, RBs, FB, and TEs in that almost comeback 3 TD second half.

We can go either way.

Honestly Joe, you'd probably be quite shocked at how little I care who you give credit to. You and some of the other posters here have proven to me beyond a doubt that you are pushing a personal agenda, and no doubt possess so little knowledge about the game of football that most here probably feel the same way. All I have to say is that JTO is the Man...wait maybe it is the Shaun Hill Starship...I don't think we have a great QB on the roster, but they do not grow on trees. You guys trying to blame one person for the piss poor play of the TEAM this past game are shortsighted and makes you guys look stupid. Just trying to keep you from once again making a fool of yourself, but hey...whatever lets you sleep at night.


The "personal agenda" we seek is called WINNING.

Dont you people get it ? The guy needs EVERYTHING to be perfect for things to go his way. One penalty.......drive over. One sack....drive over. Once the opposition takes the lead.......game over. Put him in a stress situation......he comes up short. Dont take my word for it. Go watch the gamefilm. And not just from Sing/Raye's playbook. Take a trip in Niner history and check his track record with Nolan/McCarthy, Nolan/Turner, Nolan/Hostler. It's the same thing over and over. The guy has done nothing (bar the Arizona and Seattle games in 06) that would make him seem like a franchise QB.

Let me repeat.......he has done NOTHING that would make him seem like a franchise QB. So instead of trying to fix eveything around him so that it is picture perfect.......why not find someone else that can execute in a flawed offense ? Dont guys like Brees and Favre work with mediocre receiving groups ? Dont guys like Rodgers have success with poor olines ? Dont guys like Flacco excel in conservative offenses ? Why can all these guys have success in "less than perfect" situations, but Alex needs everything to be just right.

Seriously......I just dont get how you people can accept losing for 7 years, and STILL be willing to risk another season (eg 2010) of possibly exiting early on......

Give a solution. What free agent QB is out there that can be a franchise QB or at least get them into the playoffs next year? Kolb? Hard to tell with him and if he is for real I doubt Philly is going to be eager to deal him. Davis might well turn into a solid NFL QB but do you think he is ready next year? Obviously the Niners don't because they sure are not rushing him. They are the ones who see him everyday. Are we willing to risk next season on the gamble he would be? Which of the college QBS are you confident can step in behind this offensive line and make a difference that will get the Niners to the playoffs next year? Who? What do you want the Niners to do? Do you suggest putting Hill in there again for next season?

This team was gutted earlier this decade. It was the bill that came due mainly thanks to Carmen Policy (with Eddie D's backing) in the 90s. The problem was compounded by hiring that jack a** Donuhue who carried out the gutting but was incapable of drafting any talent or running the team with any semblance of competence. Difficult to run a team over the phone from Newport Beach. Then the hiring of Nolan not only as coach but also as GM. Disatrous. It was going to be bad no matter what. For the first few years this decade the Niners were paying more of their cap to players no longer on the team than to the ones that were actually on it. It didn't have to be as bad as it has turned out to be but it was going to be bad.

I am actually more optimistic about the Niners than I have been in awhile. Crabtree and Davis are becoming real playmakers in the passing game. We haven't seen that in a long, long, time. Alex has at times looked very good. Better than he ever did in his earlier incarnation years ago. Why does there have to be a definite judgement on him just 4 1/2 games in? Again, tell me what are the Niners better options in the near future? Alex's development gives the Niners the best chance of going to the playoffs next year. You will grant he is developing but argue that it isn't near enough. You are ready the write the last chapter. Some of us are not. But those of us who think Alex is developing into a legiitmate quarterback realize that this would be the best possible thing for the Niners. A lot of you feel the Niners have to pull the cord. But what where do we get the quarterback who will likely get the Niners into the playoffs next year?


1) in regards to Smith's development

-You're talking about "development" for a guy thats been in the league for 5 years. I can buy this argument if you refer to Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco, guys that are still learning the ropes of the game. But a guy thats been playing for 5 years ? Comeon now. And bench time counts as playing time. After all, everyone counts Rodgers time on the bench as "learning", no ? You wouldnt exactly call him a "developing" player, would you ? Im sorry, but Alex's time to "develop" is over. He's had 2 years on-field experience, and 2 years off-field to learn the game. If he still needs fine tuning at this point, it's a lost cause. And again, when you talk about progression as a player, there's not much difference in Alex's play from 09 from 06. Sure, he shows more maturity and look more comfortable in the pocket. But still, 5 years post-draft, he's staring down receivers, throwing errand balls, and making costly mistakes at inopportune times. And worse, he still hasnt demonstrated consistency in terms of playing a complete game AND bringing the team back from behind. Those are all poor signs, my friend. I dont know exactly how you expect him to emerge as a dominating QB in this league at this point. Greatness cannot be taught.

2) in terms of starting Nate Davis

-I think Davis has a great opportunity to be the future for this franchise; but I also think it would be wise to test his strengths/weaknesses this season, especially if it ends up a wash. You guys want Alex to start ? Fine. Keep him in for now. I dont have a voodoo doll that Im stabbing everytime he drops back for a pass. He'll do his own damage. But I do feel Davis deserves a shot in the last 2-3 games for assessment purposes. Then we should have a better idea of how aggressive we need to be in the draft/FA.

3) in terms of the near future

-If Davis demonstrates that he is a viable player, would i slot him in as starter next season ? Nope. Absolutely not. And no, it has nothing to do with how we "ruined" Alex's career (which is false, cause it sure as hell didnt ruin Manning as a rookie starter). Rather, I think we could bring Davis along slowly. Let him learn from the bench as a backup; pick up the speed of the game. Learn the ins and outs.

4) the solution ?

-IMO (emphasis on IMO), we pick up a FA. There's no point in drafting a QB and then trying to develop both him and Davis. Kills the point and also nullifies the "bridging" of current talent to future talent (eg NDavis). So IMO, we need to go out and pick up a free agent. Unfortunately, there are slim pickings this offseason. The only choices I can come up with are Jeff Garcia and Michael Vick. Both have questionable talent. Both have come up short in their careers at multiple levels. However, both have led playoff caliber teams, and both have had considerable success on those teams. Whats the purpose ? For one, I think both would be an upgrade over our current QBs. Garcia and Vick are both mobile, can spread defenses, and use personal attributes in the passing attack. Vick brinngs a strong arm and that could mean a more vertical attack with Crabtree and Jacobs/Morgan. He can also keep the defense honest with his legs. He may not be the runner he was 4 years ago, but then again.....Cunningham, Flutie, and Steve Young still forced defenses to keep a QB spy even later on in their careers. Garcia, not so strong armed, is more accurate. In a conservative offense, where you're relying on quick outs and short slants, he can execute. Plus, he has the ability to move the pocket. Are either of them likely to take the team to the Superbowl ? Probably not. BUT, they make us MORE competitive, and I think either could make our team an instant playoff contender. Especially if we keep the defense in tact and improve our oline.

The most important thing, however, is that we use the time to develop Davis. So that in 2 years, he can take over SMOOTHLY from either of the two (and if Vick pans out, Davis can serve as a viable backup). The point is that Davis takes over a team that is flowing and hitting on all cylinders, rather than a team in turmoil with no identity, which is likely if we continue with Smith and/or Hill.

We may disagree, but I will give you credit, you answered the question. Good post.

I don't agree with a lot of it either, but it's still a good post. The main thing is that when Rodgers is on the bench learning, he's learning for a reason. The Packers have a plan. What benefit is it for Smith to sit on the bench and learn when the following year he's going to have to learn again, because the old system is now over with? If you want to sit a guy for a few years, at least make it worthwhile. I doubt Smith gained anything from sitting on the bench watching Hostler's pathetic offense, for example.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I blame Alex for not being able to block for himself, or catch the passes he did manage to get off, for not being out there to stop the guys running free through the defense, for not calling his own plays, for being drafted by Mike Nolan onto the worst niners team in 30+ years, for getting his shoulder shredded by a 330 pound lineman, global warming, teenage pregnancy, the national deficit, Obama, Sarah Palin, 9/11, social inequity, the Enron debacle, the Iraq war, Afghanistan, cancer, illiteracy, H1N1, unemployment, the decline of the dollar, and finally the never ending stream of ignorant posts about him on these message boards.

In that case, then I give credit only to the OL, WR, RBs, FB, and TEs in that almost comeback 3 TD second half.

We can go either way.

Honestly Joe, you'd probably be quite shocked at how little I care who you give credit to. You and some of the other posters here have proven to me beyond a doubt that you are pushing a personal agenda, and no doubt possess so little knowledge about the game of football that most here probably feel the same way. All I have to say is that JTO is the Man...wait maybe it is the Shaun Hill Starship...I don't think we have a great QB on the roster, but they do not grow on trees. You guys trying to blame one person for the piss poor play of the TEAM this past game are shortsighted and makes you guys look stupid. Just trying to keep you from once again making a fool of yourself, but hey...whatever lets you sleep at night.


The "personal agenda" we seek is called WINNING.

Dont you people get it ? The guy needs EVERYTHING to be perfect for things to go his way. One penalty.......drive over. One sack....drive over. Once the opposition takes the lead.......game over. Put him in a stress situation......he comes up short. Dont take my word for it. Go watch the gamefilm. And not just from Sing/Raye's playbook. Take a trip in Niner history and check his track record with Nolan/McCarthy, Nolan/Turner, Nolan/Hostler. It's the same thing over and over. The guy has done nothing (bar the Arizona and Seattle games in 06) that would make him seem like a franchise QB.

Let me repeat.......he has done NOTHING that would make him seem like a franchise QB. So instead of trying to fix eveything around him so that it is picture perfect.......why not find someone else that can execute in a flawed offense ? Dont guys like Brees and Favre work with mediocre receiving groups ? Dont guys like Rodgers have success with poor olines ? Dont guys like Flacco excel in conservative offenses ? Why can all these guys have success in "less than perfect" situations, but Alex needs everything to be just right.

Seriously......I just dont get how you people can accept losing for 7 years, and STILL be willing to risk another season (eg 2010) of possibly exiting early on......


Brees is the only one on that list that you are right about. But then again Colston is a star and their OC is great. That makes a huge difference. The HC is very good also and plays to the strength of the team. Favre is working with very good WR. They are 1st round picks and a very sought after FA. Rodgers is putting up numbers but not wins. Flacco, Whats his record??????

Seven years of losing has nothing to do with one player. It is all about the organization. Realize that and maybe the blame can be shifted from one player to the front office.
Originally posted by TexasNiner84:
its ok. we're getting this guy next year anyway...











I like Bradford a lot. But I would not take a risk on him at all. He has more of a chance than anybody to get injured and be out of the NFL while still getting payed millions.
Originally posted by 49erForLife420:
Originally posted by DaNiners:
Hail Jesus, someone who actually knows something about football and does not allow a less than decent QB to go unscathed. Smith's decision on his interception yesterday was awful. He had time and overthrew the receiver by five yards...just terrible. In the first half he caused at least two or three of those sacks by hanging on to the ball or running into the tackler. Terrible!

He did next to nothing against the Bears, he was horrible against the Titans....so other than two halves of football (where we were down by twenty or more points), what is it that makes some of you think Smith is worth the sh*t on the bottom of my shoes. Seriously, he is not a franchise QB and never will be. If you don't have one, you draft one.

lol

Agree, stare down a receiver and that's going to happen. Clearly back up against the endzone and him know that all game he's been getting hit before he plants his back foot is going to make you even more jumpy. Either way if shaun hill was in the game it would have been a 3 and out and we still would have lost!
Honestly, those of you who are bashing Alex need to come to the realization that he is our best QB on this team. Obviously, Shuan Hill couldn't get it done since he was down 66-10(combined ATL/HOU) and we had to pull the plug on him since he can't throw the ball further than the first down yard stick. Smith has demonstrated that he has improved, even from 06'. He played 7 games in 07'(5 in which his shoudler was completely f*%$ed up) and didn't take a snap the entire 08' season. His completion percentage is up, td/int ratio is up, footwork has improved and seems more calm in pressure situations and also exudes more confidence. The things I would like to see him work on is being a bit more vocal on the field, be able to take snaps from all formations and stare down his receivers less, but as I go back and look at the games in which he has started this year, he is much improved in that area too. The problem is whoever is playing, they will get destroyed behind this attrocious offensive line. The fact is he is the best we have. So, those who can't stand him, get over it. And please stop with this Nate Davis talk. This is a rookie, who has a learning disability, and is a young player who should be on the sidelines learning and studying. As I have stated before, we have to wait til the end of the year to really give an overall evaluation to Smith and to see where he stands as a 9er in the future.