Shaun Hill - Final Analysis

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Thank you.

Smith supporters thanking each other, LOL.

More like 49ers fans who know what's best for the team. If I was a Smith supporter, I'd say the guy is going to be the next Joe Montana. Am I saying that? No, I'm not. You don't have to be a Smith supporter to see that he's the best QB on the team right now. If Hill can't even keep his job with Smith as the backup, how good is Hill? That says a lot.

The bottom line is, us fans are going to disagree on the matter. I'm not a Smith supporter. I'm not a Hill basher. I simply want the best QB starting on this team, and it was painfully obvious that Hill isn't that. Just look at who's starting: it's Alex Smith. The 49ers feel that he is. I'd trust them over a bunch of Smith haters.

We all know what's best for our beloved team, its just our opinions differ. But you say your not a Smith supporter, Hill basher....but that's funny, I didn't EVER see you support or back up Hill when he was starting??

Funny how short of a leash Hill gets as opposed to Alex Smith. Two games and we pull Hill, how much have we lost already with Smith in there??

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Thank you.

Smith supporters thanking each other, LOL.

More like 49ers fans who know what's best for the team. If I was a Smith supporter, I'd say the guy is going to be the next Joe Montana. Am I saying that? No, I'm not. You don't have to be a Smith supporter to see that he's the best QB on the team right now. If Hill can't even keep his job with Smith as the backup, how good is Hill? That says a lot.

The bottom line is, us fans are going to disagree on the matter. I'm not a Smith supporter. I'm not a Hill basher. I simply want the best QB starting on this team, and it was painfully obvious that Hill isn't that. Just look at who's starting: it's Alex Smith. The 49ers feel that he is. I'd trust them over a bunch of Smith haters.

We all know what's best for our beloved team, its just our opinions differ. But you say your not a Smith supporter, Hill basher....but that's funny, I didn't EVER see you support or back up Hill when he was starting??

Funny how short of a leash Hill gets as opposed to Alex Smith. Two games and we pull Hill, how much have we lost already with Smith in there??

It's not about wins and losses, it's about how each QB has played. Do you think just because Hill won 1 more game than Smith did, he should remain QB for the remainder of the season? We should be happy that Hill beat the Rams and Seahawks? He played basically 5.5 bad games. The defense let him off the hook in each of the games. Yes, the defense bailed out Smith against Chicago, but Gore was able to ice the game. Notice how we ran the ball out of shotgun though? Do you see a reason for that? The Bears had to respect Smith's arm, so we could actually use shotgun and run the ball out of it, and we were pretty successful with that. With Hill back there, I doubt we'd get that creative. We'd just continue to run the ball up the gut just like we did against Arizona and Minnesota.

By the way, I was supporting Hill last season after he took over for O'Sullivan. I thought he was pretty good last year. He was getting rid of the ball quickly and throwing accurately. Unfortunately, all QBs appear that way with Martz, and now that he's gone, we all see Hill's true colors.

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

We all know what's best for our beloved team, its just our opinions differ. But you say your not a Smith supporter, Hill basher....but that's funny, I didn't EVER see you support or back up Hill when he was starting??

Funny how short of a leash Hill gets as opposed to Alex Smith. Two games and we pull Hill, how much have we lost already with Smith in there??

It's not about wins and losses, it's about how each QB has played. Do you think just because Hill won 1 more game than Smith did, he should remain QB for the remainder of the season? We should be happy that Hill beat the Rams and Seahawks? He played basically 5.5 bad games. The defense let him off the hook in each of the games. Yes, the defense bailed out Smith against Chicago, but Gore was able to ice the game. Notice how we ran the ball out of shotgun though? Do you see a reason for that? The Bears had to respect Smith's arm, so we could actually use shotgun and run the ball out of it, and we were pretty successful with that. With Hill back there, I doubt we'd get that creative. We'd just continue to run the ball up the gut just like we did against Arizona and Minnesota.

By the way, I was supporting Hill last season after he took over for O'Sullivan. I thought he was pretty good last year. He was getting rid of the ball quickly and throwing accurately. Unfortunately, all QBs appear that way with Martz, and now that he's gone, we all see Hill's true colors.

What are you talking about? It's all about wins and losses... No team makes the playoffs because there QB had more 300 yard games or less turnovers throughout the season...

To answer your question, I don't think anyone wants Hill to be our QB because he's won 2 more games than Smith this year. I think it's because he hasn't given the game away with turnovers and stupid actions (penalties/decisions/etc...)

We all know if our team wins the turnover battle we stand a better chance of winning the game, right? Including fumbles lost, Alex averages 2 turnovers a start right now. Shaun averages 1/2 of a turnover per start this year.

For Alex, all of his turnovers have led to a total of 27 points. For Hill, his have led to a total of 13 points. Averaging across the # of starts, Smith needs to score 9 additional points per start to make up for his turnovers where Shaun need just over 2.

Now averaging how many points we put up with each QB in there per start (not counting the Hou game because of obvious reasons) Smith averages 17 points a game and Hill averages 22...

The reason I put all this info out like this is to prove that Smith is hurting the team much more than he is helping. His turnovers are costing us more points per game and with him as the QB we are putting up less points per game. This is a formula for losing...

Look, Hill sucks. We know this; but, he's been better for the team than Smith has so far.

We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

FFS he's practicing as a DB on the scout team, per MM.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

your judging Nate Davis off of preseason? He was playing 3rd stringers and players that have been cut.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

your judging Nate Davis off of preseason? He was playing 3rd stringers and players that have been cut.

What I'm saying to the guy I quoted is if he wants to go off of potential or upside, then we need to see what Nate can do. We already know what Alex and Shaun can do.

Since you decided to chime in though, Nate showed that he has the strongest arm of all our QB's and showed he can lead a bunch of 3rd stringers against 3rd stringers. Also, he showed that he has what it takes to come from behind to win.

Now, in the past you've called Shaun a career 3rd stringer. And, you support Alex who is playing worse than Shaun has (turning the ball over more and leading the O to less points per game than Shaun).

So, what does that leave us with? A career 3rd stringer (Hill), the guy that's playing worse than a career 3rd stringer (Smith), or a young QB with the most upside on our team right now (only because it's unknown) that has beat several 3rd stringers (Nate).

I'm not impressed with Shaun and even less impressed with Smith. I don't know what Nate brings to the table, but I'd like to find out...

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

your judging Nate Davis off of preseason? He was playing 3rd stringers and players that have been cut.

What I'm saying to the guy I quoted is if he wants to go off of potential or upside, then we need to see what Nate can do. We already know what Alex and Shaun can do.

Since you decided to chime in though, Nate showed that he has the strongest arm of all our QB's and showed he can lead a bunch of 3rd stringers against 3rd stringers. Also, he showed that he has what it takes to come from behind to win.

Now, in the past you've call Shaun a career 3rd stringer. And, you support Alex who is playing worse than Shaun has (turning the ball over more and leading the O to less points per game than Shaun).

So, what does that leave us with? A career 3rd stringer (Hill), the guy that's playing worse than a career 3rd stringer (Smith), or a young QB with the most upside on our team right now (only because it's unknown) that has beat several 3rd stringers (Nate).

I'm not impressed with Shaun and even less impressed with Smith. I don't know what Nate brings to the table, but I'd like to find out...

For f**ks sake Nate Davis is practicing as a DB on the scout team, according to Maiocco. No offense but the kid is still a dyslexic rookie who doesn't know the majority of the play book and you want to send him out with THIS OLine? Sorry bro but that's nuts.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

FFS he's practicing as a DB on the scout team, per MM.

Yup, that's what I heard to...

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

FFS he's practicing as a DB on the scout team, per MM.

Yup, that's what I heard to...

My reply above basically says what I mean but you still want to send him out there after hearing that and that he hasn't practiced as a QB in months and that he doesn't even know the whole playbook? Dude that would get him killed man.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

your judging Nate Davis off of preseason? He was playing 3rd stringers and players that have been cut.

What I'm saying to the guy I quoted is if he wants to go off of potential or upside, then we need to see what Nate can do. We already know what Alex and Shaun can do.

Since you decided to chime in though, Nate showed that he has the strongest arm of all our QB's and showed he can lead a bunch of 3rd stringers against 3rd stringers. Also, he showed that he has what it takes to come from behind to win.

Now, in the past you've call Shaun a career 3rd stringer. And, you support Alex who is playing worse than Shaun has (turning the ball over more and leading the O to less points per game than Shaun).

So, what does that leave us with? A career 3rd stringer (Hill), the guy that's playing worse than a career 3rd stringer (Smith), or a young QB with the most upside on our team right now (only because it's unknown) that has beat several 3rd stringers (Nate).

I'm not impressed with Shaun and even less impressed with Smith. I don't know what Nate brings to the table, but I'd like to find out...

For f**ks sake Nate Davis is practicing as a DB on the scout team, according to Maiocco. No offense but the kid is still a dyslexic rookie who doesn't know the majority of the play book and you want to send him out with THIS OLine? Sorry bro but that's nuts.

Ok... I never said he was the messiah. I just said I'd like to see what he can do because it's an unknown. You can act like you know just how he would play all you want; but, we all know it's BS. Because, none of us have any info on what this kid can or can't do.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

your judging Nate Davis off of preseason? He was playing 3rd stringers and players that have been cut.

What I'm saying to the guy I quoted is if he wants to go off of potential or upside, then we need to see what Nate can do. We already know what Alex and Shaun can do.

Since you decided to chime in though, Nate showed that he has the strongest arm of all our QB's and showed he can lead a bunch of 3rd stringers against 3rd stringers. Also, he showed that he has what it takes to come from behind to win.

Now, in the past you've call Shaun a career 3rd stringer. And, you support Alex who is playing worse than Shaun has (turning the ball over more and leading the O to less points per game than Shaun).

So, what does that leave us with? A career 3rd stringer (Hill), the guy that's playing worse than a career 3rd stringer (Smith), or a young QB with the most upside on our team right now (only because it's unknown) that has beat several 3rd stringers (Nate).

I'm not impressed with Shaun and even less impressed with Smith. I don't know what Nate brings to the table, but I'd like to find out...

For f**ks sake Nate Davis is practicing as a DB on the scout team, according to Maiocco. No offense but the kid is still a dyslexic rookie who doesn't know the majority of the play book and you want to send him out with THIS OLine? Sorry bro but that's nuts.

Ok... I never said he was the messiah. I just said I'd like to see what he can do because it's an unknown. You can act like you know just how he would play all you want; but, we all know it's BS. Because, none of us have any info on what this kid can or can't do.

No but we have information predicting what he might do. I mean I know you don't like Smith, but come on if he is a bust like you say, would you really want to expose Nate to a similar situation that could stunt his development and ruin him? WE basically wrote the book on how to ruin a young QB, lets not write the sequel. We can let him sit and learn and get him ready with another offseason.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

your judging Nate Davis off of preseason? He was playing 3rd stringers and players that have been cut.

What I'm saying to the guy I quoted is if he wants to go off of potential or upside, then we need to see what Nate can do. We already know what Alex and Shaun can do.

Since you decided to chime in though, Nate showed that he has the strongest arm of all our QB's and showed he can lead a bunch of 3rd stringers against 3rd stringers. Also, he showed that he has what it takes to come from behind to win.

Now, in the past you've call Shaun a career 3rd stringer. And, you support Alex who is playing worse than Shaun has (turning the ball over more and leading the O to less points per game than Shaun).

So, what does that leave us with? A career 3rd stringer (Hill), the guy that's playing worse than a career 3rd stringer (Smith), or a young QB with the most upside on our team right now (only because it's unknown) that has beat several 3rd stringers (Nate).

I'm not impressed with Shaun and even less impressed with Smith. I don't know what Nate brings to the table, but I'd like to find out...

For f**ks sake Nate Davis is practicing as a DB on the scout team, according to Maiocco. No offense but the kid is still a dyslexic rookie who doesn't know the majority of the play book and you want to send him out with THIS OLine? Sorry bro but that's nuts.

Ok... I never said he was the messiah. I just said I'd like to see what he can do because it's an unknown. You can act like you know just how he would play all you want; but, we all know it's BS. Because, none of us have any info on what this kid can or can't do.

No but we have information predicting what he might do. I mean I know you don't like Smith, but come on if he is a bust like you say, would you really want to expose Nate to a similar situation that could stunt his development and ruin him? WE basically wrote the book on how to ruin a young QB, lets not write the sequel. We can let him sit and learn and get him ready with another offseason.

Again, I never said to start the kid or to throw him in like chum into a shark tank ... I'm sure we could do better to prep him than having him play as a DB on the scout team... Let him get some mop-up time at the end of the game or bring him along like they did with Montana back in the day...

As for your dyslexia comment... You do know that dyslexia does not mean the kid is stupid, right? It just means that he needs to learn a different way then most; that's all. Look, as an educator, I've worked with a few dyslexic students and most of them are just as smart as you or I. In some ways they may be even smarter because of the hard work they have had to put in to overcome their learning condition...

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BigRon:
We need to remember this season is prep for the future. Shaun Hill has no, zero, upside. We have seen his best. If this was a team with an outstanding Oline, Great Wideouts as well as continuity in the Coaching ranks, Shaun Hill could do a good job of managing the offense and could lead a team to the playoffs. BUT, he isn't a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and drive them to the promised land. He is someone who has to rely on others to make plays, not make them himself.

I think he is a great back up to have on a team. He can step in a do a good enough job not to lose a game. I wouldn't mind having him as the number 2 on this team.

If that's the case, then we need to see what Nate has. He showed more potential in the preseason IMO...

your judging Nate Davis off of preseason? He was playing 3rd stringers and players that have been cut.

What I'm saying to the guy I quoted is if he wants to go off of potential or upside, then we need to see what Nate can do. We already know what Alex and Shaun can do.

Since you decided to chime in though, Nate showed that he has the strongest arm of all our QB's and showed he can lead a bunch of 3rd stringers against 3rd stringers. Also, he showed that he has what it takes to come from behind to win.

Now, in the past you've call Shaun a career 3rd stringer. And, you support Alex who is playing worse than Shaun has (turning the ball over more and leading the O to less points per game than Shaun).

So, what does that leave us with? A career 3rd stringer (Hill), the guy that's playing worse than a career 3rd stringer (Smith), or a young QB with the most upside on our team right now (only because it's unknown) that has beat several 3rd stringers (Nate).

I'm not impressed with Shaun and even less impressed with Smith. I don't know what Nate brings to the table, but I'd like to find out...

For f**ks sake Nate Davis is practicing as a DB on the scout team, according to Maiocco. No offense but the kid is still a dyslexic rookie who doesn't know the majority of the play book and you want to send him out with THIS OLine? Sorry bro but that's nuts.

Ok... I never said he was the messiah. I just said I'd like to see what he can do because it's an unknown. You can act like you know just how he would play all you want; but, we all know it's BS. Because, none of us have any info on what this kid can or can't do.

No but we have information predicting what he might do. I mean I know you don't like Smith, but come on if he is a bust like you say, would you really want to expose Nate to a similar situation that could stunt his development and ruin him? WE basically wrote the book on how to ruin a young QB, lets not write the sequel. We can let him sit and learn and get him ready with another offseason.

Again, I never said to start the kid or to throw him in like chum into a shark tank ... I'm sure we could do better to prep him than having him play as a DB on the scout team... Let him get some mop-up time at the end of the game or bring him along like they did with Montana back in the day...

As for your dyslexia comment... You do know that dyslexia does not mean the kid is stupid, right? It just means that he needs to learn a different way then most; that's all. Look, as an educator, I've worked with a few dyslexic students and most of them are just as smart as you or I. In some ways they may be even smarter because of the hard work they have had to put in to overcome their learning condition...

I never said he's stupid. I have a dyslexic cousin and she's not retarded. But I do know it takes longer to learn, and he said earlier in TC or whatever he hopes that he can learn the playbook by the end of the year. How are we going to put in a guy who hasn't compeitively thrown a football in a game, who doesn't even know the whole playbook, who hasn't even practiced most of the plays, and expect him to do well?

You said we could bring him along like Montana but obviously that's not occurring now so why are you saying to put him in right now?