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Shaun Hill - Final Analysis

  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

He wasn't turning the ball over, but he was leading the league in 3-and-outs.

Pick your poison.
The guy can just about manage a 20 yard pass, give me Smith any day over Hill.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
The guy can just about manage a 20 yard pass, give me Smith any day over Hill.

Yeah, watching the offense with him at QB is like going to the dentist to get wisdom teeth removed. It's a pretty painful experience. Smith isn't the greatest, but watching the offense moving the chains isn't as frustrating, even if Smith turns the ball over more than Hill. The bottom line is that Hill didn't turn the ball over, but look at his numbers. He led the league in 3-and-outs, averaged about a TD per game, and roughly 150-160 yards passing per game. That's not good enough. I'd take 220 yards (+/-) passing per game and moving the chains 5 or 6 more times, even if it means an additional turnover.
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

He wasn't turning the ball over, but he was leading the league in 3-and-outs.

Pick your poison.

so......who do you blame that more on Hill or.......would you say it was the Play Calling/Oline/WRs?????.....like most are saying is the reason our offense is stalling with Alex back there right now....

so what is the better formula for out type of team, the situation we are in right now?

Shaun (doesn't really lose you the game) + our playcalling + our Oline + WRs

or

Alex has his share of 3 and outs (plus has turned the ball over every single game and counting) + our playcalling + our Oline +WRs

for those asking why some are still backing Hill....like others have said it's simple...we are still in the playoff hunt and Alex is not getting it done, in fact he is making it harder for us to win games with his turnovers.

believe me B650 if we are eliminated from making the playoffs, there will be NO reason to have Shaun back there....either have Alex or Nate.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

He wasn't turning the ball over, but he was leading the league in 3-and-outs.

Pick your poison.

so......who do you blame that more on Hill or.......would you say it was the Play Calling/Oline/WRs?????.....like most are saying is the reason our offense is stalling with Alex back there right now....

so what is the better formula for out type of team, the situation we are in right now?

Shaun (doesn't really lose you the game) + our playcalling + our Oline + WRs

or

Alex has his share of 3 and outs (plus has turned the ball over every single game and counting) + our playcalling + our Oline +WRs

for those asking why some are still backing Hill....like others have said it's simple...we are still in the playoff hunt and Alex is not getting it done, in fact he is making it harder for us to win games with his turnovers.

believe me B650 if we are eliminated from making the playoffs, there will be NO reason to have Shaun back there....either have Alex or Nate.

The question is, was Hill getting it gone? He had a record of 3-3, and this was the EASY part of the schedule. Now Smith is facing the hard part, and he's 1-2. Can you really blame him? It's not like he's losing games all by himself. Can you blame him for the Colts loss? Fine, blame him for the Titans loss, but you can blame Hill for the Texans loss. They're even.

Hill was on pace for an 8-8 season. That means another lost, non-playoff season. The most crucial thing is, our offense was getting worse and worse. Everyone knew we needed more out of the QB position. Hill needed to come out of the bye and absolutely light it up against Houston. He did the opposite. He followed up his dismal performance against Atlanta with an equally dismal performance against Houston, despite the fact that they were ranked poorly in pass defense. I think that was it. The team lost faith. Plus, I also believe that team wants Smith out there more than Hill because Smith is more able to utilize Crabtree and keep him happy. Hill can't because he's too limited.

To answer your question, I believe it's a combination of things. I don't think you can put all the blame on Hill, because yes, his WRs aren't that great, the OL is horrible, the OC isn't calling the right plays, etc.

However, the WRs are who we have. The OC is who we have. The OL is who we have. Since that's the case, I believe Smith is the right QB. Hill simply doesn't have the talent to overcome all of this. He can't avoid pressure. He can't beat blitzes. Our run game suffered.

We put Alex in there, and now we're moving the chains. Gore is running the ball much better. We're passing for more yards. The OL looks slightly better because Alex is getting rid of the ball quicker than Hill.

I think it's clear that we're a much, much better team with Smith at QB. The only thing is that Smith has to throw less INTs. That's a possibility. With Hill, he just has to get younger and improve his arm strength. That's not a possibility. Bottom line is, we aren't winning a Super Bowl with Hill, so we might as well save time and find out what we have with Alex. If he too doesn't have what it takes, we go in a different direction next season. I think Alex being the QB benefits this team is many ways, now, and for the future.
[ Edited by B650 on Nov 20, 2009 at 11:28 PM ]
Quote:
"The question is, was Hill getting it gone? He had a record of 3-3, and this was the EASY part of the schedule. Now Smith is facing the hard part, and he's 1-2."

you call this the EASY part?????

AT Arizona
AT Minnesota
VS Falcons

were as this is the Hard part right?
AT Indy
at HOME vs (1-6)Titans
at Home vs the struggling Bears

I didn't have a problem with Alex back there because I thought he would at least beat the Titans and Bears at home and I felt we would still have a very good chance at the playoffs......he lost to the Titans....and barely beat the Bears after Cutler basically gave the game to us with 5ints.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Quote:
"The question is, was Hill getting it gone? He had a record of 3-3, and this was the EASY part of the schedule. Now Smith is facing the hard part, and he's 1-2."

you call this the EASY part?????

AT Arizona
AT Minnesota
VS Falcons

were as this is the Hard part right?
AT Indy
at HOME vs (1-6)Titans
at Home vs the struggling Bears

I didn't have a problem with Alex back there because I thought he would at least beat the Titans and Bears at home and I felt we would still have a very good chance at the playoffs......he lost to the Titans....and barely beat the Bears after Cutler basically gave the game to us with 5ints.

OK, but Smith hasn't had any easy games yet. Tennessee is 3-6 and I believe they're much better than they're record. The Colts are 9-0. Hill had a couple easy wins (Seahawks and Rams). Hill is lucky that he was facing the Rams that week because he wasn't able to do much. The offense scored 14 points. I think Hill's 3-3 record is somewhat inflated. Had he faced teams like Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Chicago, we could be sitting at 2-7 right now, and definitely out of the playoffs.
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

He wasn't turning the ball over, but he was leading the league in 3-and-outs.

Pick your poison.

so......who do you blame that more on Hill or.......would you say it was the Play Calling/Oline/WRs?????.....like most are saying is the reason our offense is stalling with Alex back there right now....

so what is the better formula for out type of team, the situation we are in right now?

Shaun (doesn't really lose you the game) + our playcalling + our Oline + WRs

or

Alex has his share of 3 and outs (plus has turned the ball over every single game and counting) + our playcalling + our Oline +WRs

for those asking why some are still backing Hill....like others have said it's simple...we are still in the playoff hunt and Alex is not getting it done, in fact he is making it harder for us to win games with his turnovers.

believe me B650 if we are eliminated from making the playoffs, there will be NO reason to have Shaun back there....either have Alex or Nate.

The question is, was Hill getting it gone? He had a record of 3-3, and this was the EASY part of the schedule. Now Smith is facing the hard part, and he's 1-2. Can you really blame him? It's not like he's losing games all by himself. Can you blame him for the Colts loss? Fine, blame him for the Titans loss, but you can blame Hill for the Texans loss. They're even.

Hill was on pace for an 8-8 season. That means another lost, non-playoff season. The most crucial thing is, our offense was getting worse and worse. Everyone know we needed more out of the QB position. Hill needed to come out of the bye and absolutely light it up against Houston. He did the opposite. He followed up his dismal performance against Atlanta with an equally dismal performance against Houston, despite the fact that they were ranked poorly in pass defense. I think that was it. The team lost faith. Plus, I also believe that team wants Smith out there more than Hill because Smith is more able to utilize Crabtree and keep him happy. Hill can't because he's too limited.

To answer your question, I believe it's a combination of things. I don't think you can put all the blame on Hill, because yes, his WRs aren't that great, the OL is horrible, the OC isn't calling the right plays, etc.

However, the WRs are who we have. The OC is who we have. The OL is who we have. Since that's the case, I believe Smith is the right QB. Hill simply doesn't have the talent to overcome all of this. He can't avoid pressure. He can't beat blitzes. Our run game suffered.

We put Alex in there, and now we're moving the chains. Gore is running the ball much better. We're passing for more yards. The OL looks slightly better because Alex is getting rid of the ball quicker than Hill.

I think it's clear that we're a much, much better team with Smith at QB. The only thing is that Smith has to throw less INTs. That's a possibility. With Hill, he just has to get younger and improve his arm strength. That's not a possibility. Bottom line is, we aren't winning a Super Bowl with Hill, so we might as well save time and find out what we have with Alex. If he too doesn't have what it takes, we go in a different direction next season. I think Alex being the QB benefits this team is many ways, now, and for the future.

Very well said
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.
[ Edited by BHulman on Nov 21, 2009 at 12:26 AM ]
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Hes garbage as a #1 overall pick, but hes improved to medicore, which IMO is still garbage to me.

Shaun Hill 5-2

Alex Smith 6-6

Now tell me who turns the ball over more?? Very simple answer, but of course Smith supporters do the "believe what we want, when we want" thing, as well as "see what we want, when we want and how we want" thing.

I accept Alex Smith is our starter, nothing that I can control of course, except for my own opinion. But if Smith does not HELP guide us to the playoffs, really do hope hes gone next year.

Only thing hes proved IMO, at least he was better than Jim Druckenmiller.

Can't wait for the tons of fun of excuses Sunday night.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Thank you.
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Thank you.

Smith supporters thanking each other, LOL.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Hes garbage as a #1 overall pick, but hes improved to medicore, which IMO is still garbage to me.

Shaun Hill 5-2

Alex Smith 6-6

Now tell me who turns the ball over more?? Very simple answer, but of course Smith supporters do the "believe what we want, when we want" thing, as well as "see what we want, when we want and how we want" thing.

I accept Alex Smith is our starter, nothing that I can control of course, except for my own opinion. But if Smith does not HELP guide us to the playoffs, really do hope hes gone next year.

Only thing hes proved IMO, at least he was better than Jim Druckenmiller.

Can't wait for the tons of fun of excuses Sunday night.

So he turns the ball over more. We'll give you that, but really, who cares? He has more TDs than Hill already in half as many games. The offense moves the ball. The WRs are involved. Gore is running the ball a lot better. The defense is better rested. I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree, but me personally, I'd take 27 TDs and a lot of INTs, over 200 yards a game passing, and an offense that can move the chains, as opposed to 16 TDs, 4 INTs, 150 yards per game passing, and lead the league in 3-and-outs.

I think it's pretty funny how people point out that Hill turns the ball over less. True, but the reason is because Hill doesn't take many chances. He won't lose a game for you, but the problem is, he won't win it for you either. I guess it comes down to would you rather have a couple turnovers throughout the entire game, or constantly go 3-and-out throughout the entire game?
[ Edited by B650 on Nov 21, 2009 at 12:52 AM ]
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Thank you.

Smith supporters thanking each other, LOL.

More like 49ers fans who know what's best for the team. If I was a Smith supporter, I'd say the guy is going to be the next Joe Montana. Am I saying that? No, I'm not. You don't have to be a Smith supporter to see that he's the best QB on the team right now. If Hill can't even keep his job with Smith as the backup, how good is Hill? That says a lot.

The bottom line is, us fans are going to disagree on the matter. I'm not a Smith supporter. I'm not a Hill basher. I simply want the best QB starting on this team, and it was painfully obvious that Hill isn't that. Just look at who's starting: it's Alex Smith. The 49ers feel that he is. I'd trust them over a bunch of Smith haters.
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by AiNoKea:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by highwayone:
He is who we thought he was. A backup pie thrower.

He won ALL of the games he was supposed to win including some he wasn't. You can't discount that.

Let us see if Alex gets us wins in this second half weak schedule.

No, the team won those games, when the defense played good we won, when they didn't we lost. Hill has been figured out, teams know how to shut him down, and the running game along with it. Hill was a serviceable backup but he is exactly what he has always been.

Or when the team had a QB that wasn't giving the ball away...

Then how do you explain the ATL and Houston games?

As I continue to keep reading this board, you guys always bring up these two games.

vs. Atlanta, it wasn't Hill who gave up 5 TD's and allowed the game to be out of reach. Remember it was 35-10 at the half. Lets also remember Hill had no running game or Crabtree, who is now pretty much the go to guy. Sure Hill gets some of the blame for that game, but I'd lay most of it on the defense.

vs. Houston, from what I seen in the first half, sure there were three and outs, and Hill has played like that before. Hill from what we've seen from all his games starting this year and last, is that hes a second half QB, no one would've known what would've happened if he started in the second half.

Let's also remember that the reason we gave up 5 TDs and were down 35-10 is because Shaun Hill had an INT on his opening drive, and then wasn't able to move the chains for the rest of the half, allowing Atlanta good field position every single time. The offense was stagnant. The defense was tired. Hence, Hill was benched the following game. The 49ers coaches see it. Most of the 49ers fans see it. There are, however, a few fans that still back Hill for unknown reasons, reasons that we'll probably never know.

I'll say this: stop living in the past. The 49ers have ruled out Hill returning as a starting QB. Let's all put it behind us now. Smith is the new QB, and now we need to see if he can mature and become the QB we thought he was going to be when we drafted him. If not, then we'll have to go another route, but please, enough with Hill already.

Sure Hill did have an INT in the first drive, but the game was within reach all the way up to 8:22 in the 2nd quarter at 14-10. It was Clements who gave up that short pass to Roddy White at ATL's 18 yard line for a 90 yard TD....NOT HILL. Next on the ensuing kickoff Delanie Walker fumbles the ball at SF's 38 yard line, next thing you know the defense gives up a rushing TD to Michael Turner, score now is 28-10. Next drive, again, Hill no help from the running game, Coffee up the middle for 2 yards....WTF, another 3 and out, Andy Lee punt, Delanie Walker Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 31. Here's ATL's drive:

Quote:
# Atlanta Falcons at 04:46
# 1-10-ATL 46 (4:46) PENALTY on ATL-88-T.Gonzalez, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 46 - No Play.
# 1-15-ATL 41 (4:46) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez pushed ob at SF 47 for 12 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 2-3-SF 47 (4:08) PENALTY on ATL-84-R.White, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 47 - No Play.
# 2-8-ATL 48 (3:43) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 87-J.Peelle to SF 40 for 12 yards (38-D.Goldson; 98-P.Haralson). Caught at SF 44.
# 1-10-SF 40 (3:07) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to SF 30 for 10 yards (32-M.Lewis).
# 1-10-SF 30 (2:26) 33-M.Turner left end to SF 25 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis; 32-M.Lewis).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 2-5-SF 25 (2:00) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 84-R.White to SF 1 for 24 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at SF 3.
# 1-1-SF 1 (1:21) 33-M.Turner up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

Score now is 35-10. But yet, Hill managed to do all this, again, you guys sure it was Hill's fault in that ATL game??

And yes, people still back Hill, CAUSE HE WASN'T THE ONE TURNING THE BALL OVER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING........HEEEELLLLLLLOOOO!!!

Sure Hill might not be any much better, but Smith is garbage, sure he has improved....but hes still mediocre, and that's pretty much all hes improved to.

Is he garbage or is he mediocre? Has he moved from garbage to mediocre? Maybe if he is improving, can he can move up from mediocre? Or is garbage the same as mediocre? Or has he moved from garbage to garbage? Is the latter mediocre garbage and the former some other kind of garbage?

How is turning the ball over on the first drive not turning the ball over? The game was within reach? Only if the Niners could have held the Falcons to under ten points. That was difficult because the Niners O couldn't stay on the field and theirs could.

No it wasn't all Hill's fault. It was a large combination of things. Just like it isn't all Smith's fault. And if the Niners win on Sunday, my guess is that Gore, the receivers, the offensive line, the defense and the special teams will be deserving of some credit.

I saw Montana led teams lose three NFC title games. I saw them humilated by the Giants and the Vikings in playoff games. Did Montana lose those games? Quarterbacks play an important role, no doubt. But teams win and lose games. When I see Lincecum or Cain lose 1-0, though they take the loss I have a hard time placing all of the blame on them.

I have come to realize that for some here there is nothing Smith could do to get their support. Niners can't lose, he can't throw interceptions. That will always be exclusively his fault. Maybe he won't pan out. But this team, in my opinion, was not heading to the playoffs with Hill. Not by a long shot. So why not just see if Smith can continue to improve? If it is not enough, then move on. One way or another Hill is not going to be the starter next year. So see if Smith, who certainly has the physical tools, can do it. If not go after a free agent, rush Davis or go after a QB in the draft. At least now Gore doesn't have to face nine men in the box and the Niners have the ability to throw the ball downfield and help develop players like Crabtree, Davis, Jason Hill and Morgan who may someday be vital parts of a playoff team. We can only hope.

Hes garbage as a #1 overall pick, but hes improved to medicore, which IMO is still garbage to me.

Shaun Hill 5-2

Alex Smith 6-6

Now tell me who turns the ball over more?? Very simple answer, but of course Smith supporters do the "believe what we want, when we want" thing, as well as "see what we want, when we want and how we want" thing.

I accept Alex Smith is our starter, nothing that I can control of course, except for my own opinion. But if Smith does not HELP guide us to the playoffs, really do hope hes gone next year.

Only thing hes proved IMO, at least he was better than Jim Druckenmiller.

Can't wait for the tons of fun of excuses Sunday night.

So he turns the ball over more. We'll give you that, but really, who cares? He has more TDs than Hill already in half as many games. The offense moves the ball. The WRs are involved. Gore is running the ball a lot better. The defense is better rested. I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree, but me personally, I'd take 27 TDs and a lot of INTs, over 200 yards a game passing, and an offense that can move the chains, as opposed to 16 TDs, 4 INTs, 150 yards per game passing, and lead the league in 3-and-outs.

I think it's pretty funny how people point out how Hill turns the ball over less. True, but the reason is because Hill doesn't take many chances. He won't lose a game for you, but the problem is, he won't win it for you either. I guess it comes down to would you rather have a couple turnovers throughout the entire game, or constantly go 3-and-out throughout the entire game?

Boy how you seem to forget his play last year. Only reason Smith has ONE more TD than Hill, is because they have been passing more with Smith in, as opposed to running it on a predictable 1st and 2nd down. We can go on and on with Shaun Hill on what he has done and hasn't done, but this is Smith's moment to prove us wrong and he is our starter. All I can say is, put up or shut up or GTFO and make way for a new QB.