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Bill Walsh- Positions I Would Pick First

Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
BW had McKittrick converting castoffs from other teams into servicable players so he didn't think he needed to waste high picks on OL.

McIntyre, Wallace, Sapolu, Barton, Cross (2nd rounder), Bubba (1st pick in the 2nd round), are hardly cast offs but I know what you are saying

Exhibit A -- Derrick Deese, Bruce Collie

Derrick Deese--one and half seasons at left tackle with NO sacks against him----WOW!
Originally posted by stevenking57:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
BW had McKittrick converting castoffs from other teams into servicable players so he didn't think he needed to waste high picks on OL.

McIntyre, Wallace, Sapolu, Barton, Cross (2nd rounder), Bubba (1st pick in the 2nd round), are hardly cast offs but I know what you are saying

Exhibit A -- Derrick Deese, Bruce Collie

Derrick Deese--one and half seasons at left tackle with NO sacks against him----WOW!

Deese was a UDFA.

This again was the brilliance of Walsh: know well what you DONT know, and Walsh knew McKittrick was his equal at coaching the OL how to play. McKittrick could take guys off the street - literally guys off the street and turn them into an all-pro line.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by stevenking57:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
BW had McKittrick converting castoffs from other teams into servicable players so he didn't think he needed to waste high picks on OL.

McIntyre, Wallace, Sapolu, Barton, Cross (2nd rounder), Bubba (1st pick in the 2nd round), are hardly cast offs but I know what you are saying

Exhibit A -- Derrick Deese, Bruce Collie

Derrick Deese--one and half seasons at left tackle with NO sacks against him----WOW!

Deese was a UDFA.

This again was the brilliance of Walsh: know well what you DONT know, and Walsh knew McKittrick was his equal at coaching the OL how to play. McKittrick could take guys off the street - literally guys off the street and turn them into an all-pro line.
part of an article in the chronicle-

Now, with a former scout in charge of the draft and free agency, the scouting department basically decides the roster and if the report from Sports Illustrated is to be believed, they don't necessarily tell the position coaches. S.I.'s Jim Trotter wrote that position coaches weren't consulted about the team's free-agent signings this year, specifically wide receiver Brandon Jones.
The coach dominated system keeps the staff more engaged, because if they're picking their own players, they are completely invested in seeing those players succeed and they feel more integral to the team's success.

Scouts, however, can provide a more subjective analysis of players

Back in the Walsh era, the team looked for different types of players. The west coast offense wanted small, quick, intelligent offensive linemen, big wide receivers, dual-threat tight ends, and fullbacks who could catch.

The requirements often resulted in the 49ers competing by themselves for players. When Jerry Rice ran a slow 40-yard dash time, some teams dropped him on their draft boards. The 49ers didn't care. While teams increasingly looked for big, bruising linemen, the 49ers were content with the sub-300 pounder. That's why they were able to get Jesse Sapolu in the 11th round and Derrick Deese off the street. Rarely in the McKittrick era, did the 49ers expend a pick in the first three rounds on a lineman.

At quarterback, Walsh wanted accuracy, decision-making and intangibles. One former 49ers scout once said that if a passer could throw a ball 42 yards, that's all the arm strength needed for Walsh's offense (apparently Walsh's longest pass play went 35 yards, and then add in a seven step drop and you get 42 yards).


Ron Wolf knew how to build championships.
The current regime is much more from the Ron Wolf school, the former personnel man who won Super Bowls for the Raiders and Packers. Current general manager Scot McCloughan worked for Wolf in Green Bay.

Wolf wanted physical specimens for his teams. One former scout said he had an unbreakable rule that cornerbacks had to be over five-foot, 10-inches. If you measured five-feet, 9 and seven-eighths inches, Wolf wasn't interested.

Nevertheless, Wolf wanted specimens at nearly every position. Big players don't get hurt as often as the undersized variety, and speed wins in the NFL, so Wolf was willing to look at measurables as much as production.

The late Tony Razzano, the 49ers long-time director of college scouting greatly favored college production over measurables.

The Wolf philosophy is definitely reflected in the 49ers' recent picks - consider tight end Vernon Davis (who ran a 4.38 40 at the combine but never caught more than 48 passes in one season at Maryland). Wide receiver Jason Hill was the fastest prospect at his combine and Joe Staley was the fastest offensive lineman at his.

Both Wolf and Walsh were outrageously successful at their crafts. But philosophies work as long as the people making decisions turn prospects into Pro Bowlers.
[ Edited by Ronnie49Lott on Nov 17, 2009 at 8:26 PM ]
Originally posted by chimp914:
I would put a OT second or third on that list.

thats for sure
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
BW had McKittrick converting castoffs from other teams into servicable players so he didn't think he needed to waste high picks on OL.

McIntyre, Wallace, Sapolu, Barton, Cross (2nd rounder), Bubba (1st pick in the 2nd round), are hardly cast offs but I know what you are saying

Exhibit A -- Derrick Deese, Bruce Collie

Add Ralph Tamm, Kirk Scrafford. Chris Dahlman, Ray Brown, Jesse Sapolu (11th rounder)Fred Quillan
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by stevenking57:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
BW had McKittrick converting castoffs from other teams into servicable players so he didn't think he needed to waste high picks on OL.

McIntyre, Wallace, Sapolu, Barton, Cross (2nd rounder), Bubba (1st pick in the 2nd round), are hardly cast offs but I know what you are saying

Exhibit A -- Derrick Deese, Bruce Collie

Derrick Deese--one and half seasons at left tackle with NO sacks against him----WOW!

Deese was a UDFA.

This again was the brilliance of Walsh: know well what you DONT know, and Walsh knew McKittrick was his equal at coaching the OL how to play. McKittrick could take guys off the street - literally guys off the street and turn them into an all-pro line.
part of an article in the chronicle-

Now, with a former scout in charge of the draft and free agency, the scouting department basically decides the roster and if the report from Sports Illustrated is to be believed, they don't necessarily tell the position coaches. S.I.'s Jim Trotter wrote that position coaches weren't consulted about the team's free-agent signings this year, specifically wide receiver Brandon Jones.
The coach dominated system keeps the staff more engaged, because if they're picking their own players, they are completely invested in seeing those players succeed and they feel more integral to the team's success.

Scouts, however, can provide a more subjective analysis of players

Back in the Walsh era, the team looked for different types of players. The west coast offense wanted small, quick, intelligent offensive linemen, big wide receivers, dual-threat tight ends, and fullbacks who could catch.

The requirements often resulted in the 49ers competing by themselves for players. When Jerry Rice ran a slow 40-yard dash time, some teams dropped him on their draft boards. The 49ers didn't care. While teams increasingly looked for big, bruising linemen, the 49ers were content with the sub-300 pounder. That's why they were able to get Jesse Sapolu in the 11th round and Derrick Deese off the street. Rarely in the McKittrick era, did the 49ers expend a pick in the first three rounds on a lineman.

At quarterback, Walsh wanted accuracy, decision-making and intangibles. One former 49ers scout once said that if a passer could throw a ball 42 yards, that's all the arm strength needed for Walsh's offense (apparently Walsh's longest pass play went 35 yards, and then add in a seven step drop and you get 42 yards).


Ron Wolf knew how to build championships.
The current regime is much more from the Ron Wolf school, the former personnel man who won Super Bowls for the Raiders and Packers. Current general manager Scot McCloughan worked for Wolf in Green Bay.

Wolf wanted physical specimens for his teams. One former scout said he had an unbreakable rule that cornerbacks had to be over five-foot, 10-inches. If you measured five-feet, 9 and seven-eighths inches, Wolf wasn't interested.

Nevertheless, Wolf wanted specimens at nearly every position. Big players don't get hurt as often as the undersized variety, and speed wins in the NFL, so Wolf was willing to look at measurables as much as production.

The late Tony Razzano, the 49ers long-time director of college scouting greatly favored college production over measurables.

The Wolf philosophy is definitely reflected in the 49ers' recent picks - consider tight end Vernon Davis (who ran a 4.38 40 at the combine but never caught more than 48 passes in one season at Maryland). Wide receiver Jason Hill was the fastest prospect at his combine and Joe Staley was the fastest offensive lineman at his.

Both Wolf and Walsh were outrageously successful at their crafts. But philosophies work as long as the people making decisions turn prospects into Pro Bowlers.

Hey bud,

I don't necessarily agree with the Wolf approach. Greenbay was good but still only have 1 championship.

The problem with physical specimens is that, as the SI article points out, there's higher demand for those type players, requiring higher draft status be invested, which significantly increases the likelihood of a bust.

Jason Hill and Davis have yet to live up to their draft positions. Davis will turn in his first year as a solid reliable player.

In today's NFL, Wolf's strategy will not sustain a team because it requires a huge amount of resources and time - 2 things teams don't have in abundance thanks to free-agency and the salary cap. Wolf's team only makes the Superbowl because of 2 reasons: the emergence of Brett Favre and the signing of Reggie White to their defense. Once Reggie White left Green Bay, they came down to earth pretty quickly and have never been quite the same on defense since.

I'm a Walsh fan because his philosophy creates a synergy between system and player selection. This is my greatest criticism of McCloughan - and why I think Seattle wasn't able to sustain their dominance. Belicheck uses the same startegy. This means there's a greater chance a 5th rounder will produce for your team - where the elite physical prowess may not be available, but because that player is being asked to do one thing that is their strength, they can still be successful.

In today's NFL, the more contributions you get from lower round picks, the longer and better your team is over the long haul. It creates both depth and encourages stability.

I think part of the reason why the 49ers have lost offensive efficacy is because their players are all over the place; you have a Martz-style WR, a WCO, WR and a digit system WR all playing in the same offense. You have an OL that's build to run-block, but you call a lot of athletic plays that emphasize mobility and pulls. Your original starter was a WCO QB who struggled and now have a spread-type QB but you don't use a spread offense.

Clearly there's a disconnect between draft, personnel and coaching. Until this is rectified, the 49er will continue to struggle on offense. We say similar things about a 3-4 DE versus a 4-3 DE. They're just two different types of players.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by stevenking57:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
BW had McKittrick converting castoffs from other teams into servicable players so he didn't think he needed to waste high picks on OL.

McIntyre, Wallace, Sapolu, Barton, Cross (2nd rounder), Bubba (1st pick in the 2nd round), are hardly cast offs but I know what you are saying

Exhibit A -- Derrick Deese, Bruce Collie

Derrick Deese--one and half seasons at left tackle with NO sacks against him----WOW!

Deese was a UDFA.

This again was the brilliance of Walsh: know well what you DONT know, and Walsh knew McKittrick was his equal at coaching the OL how to play. McKittrick could take guys off the street - literally guys off the street and turn them into an all-pro line.
part of an article in the chronicle-

Now, with a former scout in charge of the draft and free agency, the scouting department basically decides the roster and if the report from Sports Illustrated is to be believed, they don't necessarily tell the position coaches. S.I.'s Jim Trotter wrote that position coaches weren't consulted about the team's free-agent signings this year, specifically wide receiver Brandon Jones.
The coach dominated system keeps the staff more engaged, because if they're picking their own players, they are completely invested in seeing those players succeed and they feel more integral to the team's success.

Scouts, however, can provide a more subjective analysis of players

Back in the Walsh era, the team looked for different types of players. The west coast offense wanted small, quick, intelligent offensive linemen, big wide receivers, dual-threat tight ends, and fullbacks who could catch.

The requirements often resulted in the 49ers competing by themselves for players. When Jerry Rice ran a slow 40-yard dash time, some teams dropped him on their draft boards. The 49ers didn't care. While teams increasingly looked for big, bruising linemen, the 49ers were content with the sub-300 pounder. That's why they were able to get Jesse Sapolu in the 11th round and Derrick Deese off the street. Rarely in the McKittrick era, did the 49ers expend a pick in the first three rounds on a lineman.

At quarterback, Walsh wanted accuracy, decision-making and intangibles. One former 49ers scout once said that if a passer could throw a ball 42 yards, that's all the arm strength needed for Walsh's offense (apparently Walsh's longest pass play went 35 yards, and then add in a seven step drop and you get 42 yards).


Ron Wolf knew how to build championships.
The current regime is much more from the Ron Wolf school, the former personnel man who won Super Bowls for the Raiders and Packers. Current general manager Scot McCloughan worked for Wolf in Green Bay.

Wolf wanted physical specimens for his teams. One former scout said he had an unbreakable rule that cornerbacks had to be over five-foot, 10-inches. If you measured five-feet, 9 and seven-eighths inches, Wolf wasn't interested.

Nevertheless, Wolf wanted specimens at nearly every position. Big players don't get hurt as often as the undersized variety, and speed wins in the NFL, so Wolf was willing to look at measurables as much as production.

The late Tony Razzano, the 49ers long-time director of college scouting greatly favored college production over measurables.

The Wolf philosophy is definitely reflected in the 49ers' recent picks - consider tight end Vernon Davis (who ran a 4.38 40 at the combine but never caught more than 48 passes in one season at Maryland). Wide receiver Jason Hill was the fastest prospect at his combine and Joe Staley was the fastest offensive lineman at his.

Both Wolf and Walsh were outrageously successful at their crafts. But philosophies work as long as the people making decisions turn prospects into Pro Bowlers.

Hey bud,

I don't necessarily agree with the Wolf approach. Greenbay was good but still only have 1 championship.

The problem with physical specimens is that, as the SI article points out, there's higher demand for those type players, requiring higher draft status be invested, which significantly increases the likelihood of a bust.

Jason Hill and Davis have yet to live up to their draft positions. Davis will turn in his first year as a solid reliable player.

In today's NFL, Wolf's strategy will not sustain a team because it requires a huge amount of resources and time - 2 things teams don't have in abundance thanks to free-agency and the salary cap. Wolf's team only makes the Superbowl because of 2 reasons: the emergence of Brett Favre and the signing of Reggie White to their defense. Once Reggie White left Green Bay, they came down to earth pretty quickly and have never been quite the same on defense since.

I'm a Walsh fan because his philosophy creates a synergy between system and player selection. This is my greatest criticism of McCloughan - and why I think Seattle wasn't able to sustain their dominance. Belicheck uses the same startegy. This means there's a greater chance a 5th rounder will produce for your team - where the elite physical prowess may not be available, but because that player is being asked to do one thing that is their strength, they can still be successful.

In today's NFL, the more contributions you get from lower round picks, the longer and better your team is over the long haul. It creates both depth and encourages stability.

I think part of the reason why the 49ers have lost offensive efficacy is because their players are all over the place; you have a Martz-style WR, a WCO, WR and a digit system WR all playing in the same offense. You have an OL that's build to run-block, but you call a lot of athletic plays that emphasize mobility and pulls. Your original starter was a WCO QB who struggled and now have a spread-type QB but you don't use a spread offense.

Clearly there's a disconnect between draft, personnel and coaching. Until this is rectified, the 49er will continue to struggle on offense. We say similar things about a 3-4 DE versus a 4-3 DE. They're just two different types of players.

Very true NinerGM. This mess will only get worse until we get a GM that has a singular vision and the ability to see it through.