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Jimmy Raye and Alex Smith

The one thing with Raye, he has shown a willingness to change things up and running out of the shotgun last night worked and I hope we have found something there. We sure as heck can't run in I-Form.

I think some of you are being way to hard on Raye, again im not saying he is a great OC but look at what he is working with. A quarterback who still struggles with consistancy, a crappy O-Line, new, young WR's, I mean what do you honestly expect? I thought Raye once again opened up the game nicely, we spread the bears out and attacked. The missed Nedney FG kinda seemed to get the team down and then when Alex threw the INT's he went into a shell. So can you blame Raye with a lead, not wanting to much out of Alex Smith when he had thrown 4 int's in the last 5 quarters? The fact we did change it up and ran the ball out of the shotgun and had some nice passes/pitches, I thought showed Raye could come up with something and lets not forget the nice drive they had late in the game to eat up what, 7 mins of the clock? The problem with this team is the O-Line, we just can't get a yard when we need it and I will defend Alex Smith in that you always hear well if Kurt Warner gets pressured he struggles, as do most QB's. Imagine Warner or even Tom Brady or Peyton Manning behind this O-Line, I don't think they would be all that successful.

Im not giving up on Alex Smith, he still needs to get rid of the ball a bit quicker (s**tty line or great O-Line) and needs to still grow up but I think he can still get there. I also think he is going to be one of those QB's that plays better on the road, it just seems like there is so much pressure on him playing at home where the fans can't wait to boo him, I think Alex puts a little much pressure on himself. Remember early on in Eli Manning's career where he struggled at home and was boo'd constantly and he was a much better QB on the road and I think he still is.

Look we have 7 games to evaluate Alex Smith, next week will be a big test, on the road, AT Green Bay, going up against Aaron Rodgers. But that being said, can we really evaluate him behind this crappy O-Line?
Nice post! This offense can't get a touchdown or a small lead & then go into a shell. They have to keep attacking if we are gonna make a run the rest if the year.
Originally posted by tohara3:
Nice post! This offense can't get a touchdown or a small lead & then go into a shell. They have to keep attacking if we are gonna make a run the rest if the year.


Yeah that missed FG seemed to take a little life out of the team and Alex Smith throwing the INT took life out of him and the offense it seemed. Again I thought Raye did a good job putting Alex Smith in a posistion to manage the game and we found a way to win. Like I said, the last possesion we had, we ate up 7mins of time and it was some nice Raye playcalling mixing up those draws and direct runs out of the shotgun and the quick pitches/throws. The Bears sure were caught by suprise by that so you have to give kudos to Raye on that.
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
The one thing with Raye, he has shown a willingness to change things up and running out of the shotgun last night worked and I hope we have found something there. We sure as heck can't run in I-Form.

I think some of you are being way to hard on Raye, again im not saying he is a great OC but look at what he is working with. A quarterback who still struggles with consistancy, a crappy O-Line, new, young WR's, I mean what do you honestly expect? I thought Raye once again opened up the game nicely, we spread the bears out and attacked. The missed Nedney FG kinda seemed to get the team down and then when Alex threw the INT's he went into a shell. So can you blame Raye with a lead, not wanting to much out of Alex Smith when he had thrown 4 int's in the last 5 quarters? The fact we did change it up and ran the ball out of the shotgun and had some nice passes/pitches, I thought showed Raye could come up with something and lets not forget the nice drive they had late in the game to eat up what, 7 mins of the clock? The problem with this team is the O-Line, we just can't get a yard when we need it and I will defend Alex Smith in that you always hear well if Kurt Warner gets pressured he struggles, as do most QB's. Imagine Warner or even Tom Brady or Peyton Manning behind this O-Line, I don't think they would be all that successful.

Im not giving up on Alex Smith, he still needs to get rid of the ball a bit quicker (s**tty line or great O-Line) and needs to still grow up but I think he can still get there. I also think he is going to be one of those QB's that plays better on the road, it just seems like there is so much pressure on him playing at home where the fans can't wait to boo him, I think Alex puts a little much pressure on himself. Remember early on in Eli Manning's career where he struggled at home and was boo'd constantly and he was a much better QB on the road and I think he still is.

Look we have 7 games to evaluate Alex Smith, next week will be a big test, on the road, AT Green Bay, going up against Aaron Rodgers. But that being said, can we really evaluate him behind this crappy O-Line?

i would say that not many fans are going to let him slide....even if the o-line contributes to him failing. no more excuses. its put up or shut up time.
Originally posted by tohara3:
Nice post! This offense can't get a touchdown or a small lead & then go into a shell. They have to keep attacking if we are gonna make a run the rest if the year.

Not gonna happen aslong as Smith keeps turning the ball over. They simply can't trust him to win games, and werer hiding him last night in the second half.
I don't know if you pride yourself as someone who knows anything about football but after reading several post and leaving suggestions on reviewing certain things(which you clearly haven't don't, especially regarding our Protection) but in this post, it is both ignorant and stupid. You claim "Alex Smith went into a shell after the INT" please review the film and look at our run to pass ratio and tell me how Alex Smith and not our playcaller went into a shell. FYI, the first drive went well bc it wasn't called at the game it was scripted to show what the defense gives you in certain situation. That first drive they showed that the shotgun both runs and intermediate routes would be there yet did we call those plays? No, we loved the I and short passes on 3rd down. Going Run run pass(count how many drives we did that after the INT) is not a QB going into a shell, it is an OC playing not to lose, not trying to win. Not to mention, I once again reviewed how many times we gave Alex Smith the NFL standard of 5 seconds of protection to go through his progressions properly, so why don't you do the same before you say "he needs to get rid of the ball sooner" that is just a beyond stupid comment when your QB doesn't have anytime to go through any progressions. In fact look and see how many times we gave up pressure in under 2 seconds! Seriously, if you want to make analysis's don't make them off feelings and opinions, go back watch the game, get some stats(I.E run to pass ratio before the INT when the O looked solid, and after the INT when it looked putrid, also look at protection time) I will give you a clue it was worse than last week when we provided "acceptable protection" of 5 seconds 13% of the time. Go check it out and then make analysis bc right now your defense of Jimmy Raye is laughable and just based on feelings/opnions instead of what really happened. Get real.

[ Edited by nvchamp9ers on Nov 13, 2009 at 13:31:55 ]
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
I don't know if you pride yourself as someone who knows anything about football but after reading several post and leaving suggestions on reviewing certain things(which you clearly haven't don't, especially regarding our Protection) but in this post, it is both ignorant and stupid. You claim "Alex Smith went into a shell after the INT" please review the film and look at our run to pass ratio and tell me how Alex Smith and not our playcaller went into a shell. FYI, the first drive went well bc it wasn't called at the game it was scripted to show what the defense gives you in certain situation. That first drive they showed that the shotgun both runs and intermediate routes would be there yet did we call those plays? No, we loved the I and short passes on 3rd down. Going Run run pass(count how many drives we did that after the INT) is not a QB going into a shell, it is an OC playing not to lose, not trying to win. Not to mention, I once again reviewed how many times we gave Alex Smith the NFL standard of 5 seconds of protection to go through his progressions properly, so why don't you do the same before you say "he needs to get rid of the ball sooner" that is just a beyond stupid comment when your QB doesn't have anytime to go through any progressions. In fact look and see how many times we gave up pressure in under 2 seconds! Seriously, if you want to make analysis's don't make them off feelings and opinions, go back watch the game, get some stats(I.E run to pass ratio before the INT when the O looked solid, and after the INT when it looked putrid, also look at protection time) I will give you a clue it was worse than last week when we provided "acceptable protection" of 5 seconds 13% of the time. Go check it out and then make analysis bc right now your defense of Jimmy Raye is laughable and just based on feelings/opnions instead of what really happened. Get real.

Agreed.

I've said it before, this philosophy is setting Alex up to fail. First quarter we script and the our coordination goes into a shell for the rest of the game unless we lose the lead. Our offense only relies on Alex Smith in situations of 3rd and long or when the game is on the line.

I'm not a negative nancy and I have a good understanding of the game. Against the Colts we didn't pass enough and against the Titans we passed too much. Now against the bears we don't pass enough.

WTF? Someone enlighten me so I see things differently because honestly, I'm starting to get freaked out.
11-5 friends
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
I don't know if you pride yourself as someone who knows anything about football but after reading several post and leaving suggestions on reviewing certain things(which you clearly haven't don't, especially regarding our Protection) but in this post, it is both ignorant and stupid. You claim "Alex Smith went into a shell after the INT" please review the film and look at our run to pass ratio and tell me how Alex Smith and not our playcaller went into a shell. FYI, the first drive went well bc it wasn't called at the game it was scripted to show what the defense gives you in certain situation. That first drive they showed that the shotgun both runs and intermediate routes would be there yet did we call those plays? No, we loved the I and short passes on 3rd down. Going Run run pass(count how many drives we did that after the INT) is not a QB going into a shell, it is an OC playing not to lose, not trying to win. Not to mention, I once again reviewed how many times we gave Alex Smith the NFL standard of 5 seconds of protection to go through his progressions properly, so why don't you do the same before you say "he needs to get rid of the ball sooner" that is just a beyond stupid comment when your QB doesn't have anytime to go through any progressions. In fact look and see how many times we gave up pressure in under 2 seconds! Seriously, if you want to make analysis's don't make them off feelings and opinions, go back watch the game, get some stats(I.E run to pass ratio before the INT when the O looked solid, and after the INT when it looked putrid, also look at protection time) I will give you a clue it was worse than last week when we provided "acceptable protection" of 5 seconds 13% of the time. Go check it out and then make analysis bc right now your defense of Jimmy Raye is laughable and just based on feelings/opnions instead of what really happened. Get real.


Obviously, you do pride yourself as one who knows something about football; but you fall short of that goal here...

Who gets a "standard 5 seconds of protection"? This is just dumb...

As for the Play calls pre and post interception look at how well they fared to see whats up. Pre INT we were getting an average of 5.5 yards per pass attempt. Post interception we were getting 3 yards per attempt and Alex's completion % dropped as well. Hell, he only completed one pass that went over 5 yards after that pick (a 20 yard play to Crabs).

Did you count how many time's we tried to have Alex convert a 3rd down with his arm after the INT? 6. Six times he tried and 5 times he failed. Were not just talking 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 15, we're talking 3rd and 5. Hell, he even failed to make a 3rd and 3... By comparison, he was 60% on 3rd down conversions before the INT (3 out of 5)...

If I had a QB who's play dropped off (less yards per attempt, lower completion %, and could not convert 3rd downs) I'd change my play calling to more run as well...

Fact is that Alex didn't help us win at all this game.



[ Edited by D_Niner on Nov 13, 2009 at 15:04:52 ]
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
I don't know if you pride yourself as someone who knows anything about football but after reading several post and leaving suggestions on reviewing certain things(which you clearly haven't don't, especially regarding our Protection) but in this post, it is both ignorant and stupid. You claim "Alex Smith went into a shell after the INT" please review the film and look at our run to pass ratio and tell me how Alex Smith and not our playcaller went into a shell. FYI, the first drive went well bc it wasn't called at the game it was scripted to show what the defense gives you in certain situation. That first drive they showed that the shotgun both runs and intermediate routes would be there yet did we call those plays? No, we loved the I and short passes on 3rd down. Going Run run pass(count how many drives we did that after the INT) is not a QB going into a shell, it is an OC playing not to lose, not trying to win. Not to mention, I once again reviewed how many times we gave Alex Smith the NFL standard of 5 seconds of protection to go through his progressions properly, so why don't you do the same before you say "he needs to get rid of the ball sooner" that is just a beyond stupid comment when your QB doesn't have anytime to go through any progressions. In fact look and see how many times we gave up pressure in under 2 seconds! Seriously, if you want to make analysis's don't make them off feelings and opinions, go back watch the game, get some stats(I.E run to pass ratio before the INT when the O looked solid, and after the INT when it looked putrid, also look at protection time) I will give you a clue it was worse than last week when we provided "acceptable protection" of 5 seconds 13% of the time. Go check it out and then make analysis bc right now your defense of Jimmy Raye is laughable and just based on feelings/opnions instead of what really happened. Get real.


Obviously, you do pride yourself as one who knows something about football; but you fall short of that goal here...

Who gets a "standard 5 seconds of protection"? This is just dumb...

As for the Play calls pre and post interception look at how well they fared to see whats up. Pre INT we were getting an average of 5.5 yards per pass attempt. Post interception we were getting 3 yards per attempt and Alex's completion % dropped as well. Hell, he only completed one pass that went over 5 yards after that pick (a 20 yard play to Crabs).

Did you count how many time's we tried to have Alex convert a 3rd down with his arm after the INT? 6. Six times he tried and 5 times he failed. Were not just talking 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 15, we're talking 3rd and 5. Hell, he even failed to make a 3rd and 3... By comparison, he was 60% on 3rd down conversions before the INT..

If I had a QB who's play dropped off (less yards per attempt, lower completion %, and could not convert 3rd downs) I'd change my play calling to more run as well...

Fact is that Alex didn't help us win at all this game.


Cmon, D, everyone knows the NFL standard 5 seconds is what our D gives the other QB.
Originally posted by darkknight49:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
I don't know if you pride yourself as someone who knows anything about football but after reading several post and leaving suggestions on reviewing certain things(which you clearly haven't don't, especially regarding our Protection) but in this post, it is both ignorant and stupid. You claim "Alex Smith went into a shell after the INT" please review the film and look at our run to pass ratio and tell me how Alex Smith and not our playcaller went into a shell. FYI, the first drive went well bc it wasn't called at the game it was scripted to show what the defense gives you in certain situation. That first drive they showed that the shotgun both runs and intermediate routes would be there yet did we call those plays? No, we loved the I and short passes on 3rd down. Going Run run pass(count how many drives we did that after the INT) is not a QB going into a shell, it is an OC playing not to lose, not trying to win. Not to mention, I once again reviewed how many times we gave Alex Smith the NFL standard of 5 seconds of protection to go through his progressions properly, so why don't you do the same before you say "he needs to get rid of the ball sooner" that is just a beyond stupid comment when your QB doesn't have anytime to go through any progressions. In fact look and see how many times we gave up pressure in under 2 seconds! Seriously, if you want to make analysis's don't make them off feelings and opinions, go back watch the game, get some stats(I.E run to pass ratio before the INT when the O looked solid, and after the INT when it looked putrid, also look at protection time) I will give you a clue it was worse than last week when we provided "acceptable protection" of 5 seconds 13% of the time. Go check it out and then make analysis bc right now your defense of Jimmy Raye is laughable and just based on feelings/opnions instead of what really happened. Get real.


Obviously, you do pride yourself as one who knows something about football; but you fall short of that goal here...

Who gets a "standard 5 seconds of protection"? This is just dumb...

As for the Play calls pre and post interception look at how well they fared to see whats up. Pre INT we were getting an average of 5.5 yards per pass attempt. Post interception we were getting 3 yards per attempt and Alex's completion % dropped as well. Hell, he only completed one pass that went over 5 yards after that pick (a 20 yard play to Crabs).

Did you count how many time's we tried to have Alex convert a 3rd down with his arm after the INT? 6. Six times he tried and 5 times he failed. Were not just talking 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 15, we're talking 3rd and 5. Hell, he even failed to make a 3rd and 3... By comparison, he was 60% on 3rd down conversions before the INT..

If I had a QB who's play dropped off (less yards per attempt, lower completion %, and could not convert 3rd downs) I'd change my play calling to more run as well...

Fact is that Alex didn't help us win at all this game.


Cmon, D, everyone knows the NFL standard 5 seconds is what our D gives the other QB.

LOL, my bad. I thought we were talking about the NFL average not the average we spot opposing teams.
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
The one thing with Raye, he has shown a willingness to change things up and running out of the shotgun last night worked and I hope we have found something there. We sure as heck can't run in I-Form.

I think some of you are being way to hard on Raye, again im not saying he is a great OC but look at what he is working with. A quarterback who still struggles with consistancy, a crappy O-Line, new, young WR's, I mean what do you honestly expect? I thought Raye once again opened up the game nicely, we spread the bears out and attacked. The missed Nedney FG kinda seemed to get the team down and then when Alex threw the INT's he went into a shell. So can you blame Raye with a lead, not wanting to much out of Alex Smith when he had thrown 4 int's in the last 5 quarters? The fact we did change it up and ran the ball out of the shotgun and had some nice passes/pitches, I thought showed Raye could come up with something and lets not forget the nice drive they had late in the game to eat up what, 7 mins of the clock? The problem with this team is the O-Line, we just can't get a yard when we need it and I will defend Alex Smith in that you always hear well if Kurt Warner gets pressured he struggles, as do most QB's. Imagine Warner or even Tom Brady or Peyton Manning behind this O-Line, I don't think they would be all that successful.

Im not giving up on Alex Smith, he still needs to get rid of the ball a bit quicker (s**tty line or great O-Line) and needs to still grow up but I think he can still get there. I also think he is going to be one of those QB's that plays better on the road, it just seems like there is so much pressure on him playing at home where the fans can't wait to boo him, I think Alex puts a little much pressure on himself. Remember early on in Eli Manning's career where he struggled at home and was boo'd constantly and he was a much better QB on the road and I think he still is.

Look we have 7 games to evaluate Alex Smith, next week will be a big test, on the road, AT Green Bay, going up against Aaron Rodgers. But that being said, can we really evaluate him behind this crappy O-Line?

very nice post.. i agree
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by tohara3:
Nice post! This offense can't get a touchdown or a small lead & then go into a shell. They have to keep attacking if we are gonna make a run the rest if the year.

Not gonna happen aslong as Smith keeps turning the ball over. They simply can't trust him to win games, and werer hiding him last night in the second half.

smith turned the ball over once last night, and the bears still didn't get much from it. cutler turns it over 4 times and they let him sling that rock all over the field. of course, he did throw a fifth pick, but he was still slinging it. ron turner, kept calling pass plays-and not because they were down by three scores or more. you have to let smith and his offensive weapons win the game-just like turner let cutler TRY and win it.

let me ask you this, if cutler was our QB and he was turning it over like he has been but throwing for 300+ yards and a couple of TD's, would you still feel the same way?

also, we ran 9 times in a 10+ play drive. i don't think that was hiding smith as much as it was just burning the clock. as mooch said, it was the 4 minute drill.
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:
I don't know if you pride yourself as someone who knows anything about football but after reading several post and leaving suggestions on reviewing certain things(which you clearly haven't don't, especially regarding our Protection) but in this post, it is both ignorant and stupid. You claim "Alex Smith went into a shell after the INT" please review the film and look at our run to pass ratio and tell me how Alex Smith and not our playcaller went into a shell. FYI, the first drive went well bc it wasn't called at the game it was scripted to show what the defense gives you in certain situation. That first drive they showed that the shotgun both runs and intermediate routes would be there yet did we call those plays? No, we loved the I and short passes on 3rd down. Going Run run pass(count how many drives we did that after the INT) is not a QB going into a shell, it is an OC playing not to lose, not trying to win. Not to mention, I once again reviewed how many times we gave Alex Smith the NFL standard of 5 seconds of protection to go through his progressions properly, so why don't you do the same before you say "he needs to get rid of the ball sooner" that is just a beyond stupid comment when your QB doesn't have anytime to go through any progressions. In fact look and see how many times we gave up pressure in under 2 seconds! Seriously, if you want to make analysis's don't make them off feelings and opinions, go back watch the game, get some stats(I.E run to pass ratio before the INT when the O looked solid, and after the INT when it looked putrid, also look at protection time) I will give you a clue it was worse than last week when we provided "acceptable protection" of 5 seconds 13% of the time. Go check it out and then make analysis bc right now your defense of Jimmy Raye is laughable and just based on feelings/opnions instead of what really happened. Get real.


Obviously, you do pride yourself as one who knows something about football; but you fall short of that goal here...

Who gets a "standard 5 seconds of protection"? This is just dumb...

As for the Play calls pre and post interception look at how well they fared to see whats up. Pre INT we were getting an average of 5.5 yards per pass attempt. Post interception we were getting 3 yards per attempt and Alex's completion % dropped as well. Hell, he only completed one pass that went over 5 yards after that pick (a 20 yard play to Crabs).

Did you count how many time's we tried to have Alex convert a 3rd down with his arm after the INT? 6. Six times he tried and 5 times he failed. Were not just talking 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 15, we're talking 3rd and 5. Hell, he even failed to make a 3rd and 3... By comparison, he was 60% on 3rd down conversions before the INT (3 out of 5)...

If I had a QB who's play dropped off (less yards per attempt, lower completion %, and could not convert 3rd downs) I'd change my play calling to more run as well...

Fact is that Alex didn't help us win at all this game.


1. If you don't know that every O-line coach expects his line to give the QB 5 seconds(that is not just a made up number, that is what teams shoot for, and is even less what our O-line coach expects to get in college,which would be 6)

2. Look at the pass plays called in the after the INT and in a 3rd/5 ot 3rd/7, the defense knows what is coming, they know what to stop, you didn't answer how many times we went run, run pass, or run, run run. A lack of creative playcalling helps no one, not Gore and not A. Smith, not Gore not the O-line. Im am not sayin by anymeans that A. Smith played good, bc he didn't, but I think he played..ok, and Raye was a much bigger problem, as a coach, I have a big problem with what he did and it nearly cost us the game.
Originally posted by Digger25:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by tohara3:
Nice post! This offense can't get a touchdown or a small lead & then go into a shell. They have to keep attacking if we are gonna make a run the rest if the year.

Not gonna happen aslong as Smith keeps turning the ball over. They simply can't trust him to win games, and werer hiding him last night in the second half.

smith turned the ball over once last night, and the bears still didn't get much from it. cutler turns it over 4 times and they let him sling that rock all over the field. of course, he did throw a fifth pick, but he was still slinging it. ron turner, kept calling pass plays-and not because they were down by three scores or more. you have to let smith and his offensive weapons win the game-just like turner let cutler TRY and win it.

let me ask you this, if cutler was our QB and he was turning it over like he has been but throwing for 300+ yards and a couple of TD's, would you still feel the same way?

also, we ran 9 times in a 10+ play drive. i don't think that was hiding smith as much as it was just burning the clock. as mooch said, it was the 4 minute drill.

Didn't that happen with JTO last year...