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A massive flaw in our 2 minute D...and a quick fix.

Take a look yourselves...Vikes, Colts, Bears. We had all three beaten until the last 2 mins when our D just takes a dump...and an ugly one at that. But subtract that from the rest of the game the D played, and they played quite well. Okay, the Colts beat us, but Peyton didn't, and we were in it until the last play . The Vikes didn't beat us, Favre, on a hail mary did. Last nite we had the Bears beat, then were about to lose, again in the last 2-3 minutes, when our excellent D went into the 2 min disaster it did in both the Vikes and Colts games. We couldn't stop anything Favre, Peyton or Cutler did in the final two minutes...until cutler ended it with a nice pass to Mike Lewis.

So what the heck is happening? We are playing good D, maybe great D, until it really matters, at the end of the game with 2 mins to go. All 3 teams, stymied by us until the last 2 minutes, suddenly can do no wrong against a D that had stopped Adrian Peterson all nite, FAvre all nite, peyton all nite, cutler all nite...all until the last 2 minutes...our fateful "D 2 minute drill".

Okay, how to fix the problem. Well, like anything else, one cannot fix something if he doesn't realize there is a problem. Okay, the D, while playing well, has a real problem, and it is the last 2 minutes of the game. Okay, now we know the problem, how do we fix it? I'm no coach, but we have some good ones, and between manusky and bigmike, they OUGHT to be able to come up with a new D plan for the last 2 minutes, with the game on the line. Some of it, i suppose, is playing not to lose....which always fails. But at times we have blitzed. In both the Vikes and Colts games, we did it too late and too infrequently on the final drives.

Manusky and bigMike need to realize this fatal flaw in our D, and set about how to counter it next time, and for the rest of their careers. It was pretty obvious in the Vikes and Colts games that both QBs did poorly with our blitzes. We just didn't use them until too late, and then not often enough. Is this enough to fix our 2 min D drill, or do we need different players, different sets...heck who knows. But realizing the problem is more than 50% of the fix, and the coaches need to take it from there.
They can't fix it b/c they don't have the players to fix it. Yes they are playing soft, but the main problem is that there isn't a player on this defense that can beat there man and get a sack. When the Niners go to prevent there is 0 chance of any pressure on the opposing qb. WR fins the spot in the zone and boom easy plays.
The prevent ony prevents you from winning.
You know, Lamont, there have been times...full out blitzes, 3 LBs or 2 LBs and a safety, where we just smoked other teams. Arizona comes to mind, along with Seattle. At times a one man blitz has worked, like a safety off the corner. But i really think there is a package we could use, once the final 3 mins start that really ramps up the heat on the QB. Dropping back, playing not to lose, is a loser...unless you have a Cutler to throw to one of our DBs.
Originally posted by MadMartz:
The prevent ony prevents you from winning.

this is so true, looks like alot of teams are not using the prevent defense except the niners this year
I have recognized this from the Vikes game.

It seems as if when we blitz and it works Manusky doesnt go back to it. Its very odd. He never says why he does it.
Daniel and Reckless, whatever the disease is that keeps manusky from using the blitz again after it is successful, it must be contagious, because jimmy rae started off using the pass to set up the run, and then...whoosh, we didn't see that again.

What we are talking about here is just 2-3 minutes of the entire D's game. We just need a planned beforehand( because nobody on the coaching staff seems to be able to rectify problems noted in the first half at halftime.) It is pretty obvious that we plan ahead of time for the game, and then if something goes wrong, we can't adjust. We need a planned, before game approach for how the D plays in a close game at the very end. And without saying much more, it better involve 2, 3, 4 man blitzes...if we lose, we lose. Without the blitz (or cutler), we are gonna lose for sure.
To much prevent defense, it almost cost us the game.
Thing is we were turning on the heat on that last drive before that penalty on Bly turned it from a turnover on downs to an automatic 1st down for them.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Take a look yourselves...Vikes, Colts, Bears. We had all three beaten until the last 2 mins when our D just takes a dump...and an ugly one at that. But subtract that from the rest of the game the D played, and they played quite well. Okay, the Colts beat us, but Peyton didn't, and we were in it until the last play . The Vikes didn't beat us, Favre, on a hail mary did. Last nite we had the Bears beat, then were about to lose, again in the last 2-3 minutes, when our excellent D went into the 2 min disaster it did in both the Vikes and Colts games. We couldn't stop anything Favre, Peyton or Cutler did in the final two minutes...until cutler ended it with a nice pass to Mike Lewis.

So what the heck is happening? We are playing good D, maybe great D, until it really matters, at the end of the game with 2 mins to go. All 3 teams, stymied by us until the last 2 minutes, suddenly can do no wrong against a D that had stopped Adrian Peterson all nite, FAvre all nite, peyton all nite, cutler all nite...all until the last 2 minutes...our fateful "D 2 minute drill".

Okay, how to fix the problem. Well, like anything else, one cannot fix something if he doesn't realize there is a problem. Okay, the D, while playing well, has a real problem, and it is the last 2 minutes of the game. Okay, now we know the problem, how do we fix it? I'm no coach, but we have some good ones, and between manusky and bigmike, they OUGHT to be able to come up with a new D plan for the last 2 minutes, with the game on the line. Some of it, i suppose, is playing not to lose....which always fails. But at times we have blitzed. In both the Vikes and Colts games, we did it too late and too infrequently on the final drives.

Manusky and bigMike need to realize this fatal flaw in our D, and set about how to counter it next time, and for the rest of their careers. It was pretty obvious in the Vikes and Colts games that both QBs did poorly with our blitzes. We just didn't use them until too late, and then not often enough. Is this enough to fix our 2 min D drill, or do we need different players, different sets...heck who knows. But realizing the problem is more than 50% of the fix, and the coaches need to take it from there.

Did you even watch the games you referenced?

The Colts scored and went ahead with 14:53 left in the fourth quarter.

The 49ers won last night. If intercepting a pass in the end zone is what it takes to win, I'd love to see it every game.

The Vikings won on a last second miracle by Favre at the 40 yard line. This is really the only true game you could point to as a failed late defensive stand, though it wasn't for a lack of pressure.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You've wasted not only my time, the board's time, but also your own time in writing up this poor excuse for a football strategy.

[ Edited by redrathman on Nov 13, 2009 at 10:40:35 ]
we can prevent this by going up by more than 1 score...getting a 1st and goal at the 5 needs to be a TD. RZ playcalling needs to be better...Dropping pick 6's...shouldnt put our defense in that situation to begin with.
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Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Take a look yourselves...Vikes, Colts, Bears. We had all three beaten until the last 2 mins when our D just takes a dump...and an ugly one at that. But subtract that from the rest of the game the D played, and they played quite well. Okay, the Colts beat us, but Peyton didn't, and we were in it until the last play . The Vikes didn't beat us, Favre, on a hail mary did. Last nite we had the Bears beat, then were about to lose, again in the last 2-3 minutes, when our excellent D went into the 2 min disaster it did in both the Vikes and Colts games. We couldn't stop anything Favre, Peyton or Cutler did in the final two minutes...until cutler ended it with a nice pass to Mike Lewis.

So what the heck is happening? We are playing good D, maybe great D, until it really matters, at the end of the game with 2 mins to go. All 3 teams, stymied by us until the last 2 minutes, suddenly can do no wrong against a D that had stopped Adrian Peterson all nite, FAvre all nite, peyton all nite, cutler all nite...all until the last 2 minutes...our fateful "D 2 minute drill".

Okay, how to fix the problem. Well, like anything else, one cannot fix something if he doesn't realize there is a problem. Okay, the D, while playing well, has a real problem, and it is the last 2 minutes of the game. Okay, now we know the problem, how do we fix it? I'm no coach, but we have some good ones, and between manusky and bigmike, they OUGHT to be able to come up with a new D plan for the last 2 minutes, with the game on the line. Some of it, i suppose, is playing not to lose....which always fails. But at times we have blitzed. In both the Vikes and Colts games, we did it too late and too infrequently on the final drives.

Manusky and bigMike need to realize this fatal flaw in our D, and set about how to counter it next time, and for the rest of their careers. It was pretty obvious in the Vikes and Colts games that both QBs did poorly with our blitzes. We just didn't use them until too late, and then not often enough. Is this enough to fix our 2 min D drill, or do we need different players, different sets...heck who knows. But realizing the problem is more than 50% of the fix, and the coaches need to take it from there.

Did you even watch the games you referenced?

The Colts scored and went ahead with 14:53 left in the fourth quarter.

The 49ers won last night. If intercepting a pass in the end zone is what it takes to win, I'd love to see it every game.

The Vikings won on a last second miracle by Favre at the 40 yard line. This is really the only true game you could point to as a failed late defensive stand, though it wasn't for a lack of pressure.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You've wasted not only my time, the board's time, but also your own time in writing up this poor excuse for a football strategy.

You completely missed his point.
Redrath, you are correct that they scored almost a qtr earlier, but it was that drive that we just couldn't stop. So what i should have said was that once an opponent is literally beating our ears back, like on their scoring drive, maybe we need to take a timeout, and switch to a full blitzing package. Whatever time it was, 14:53 as you said, they were on a roll, and we had no answer. I don't know if a full out blitz would have helped much on that HB option where we flat out blew the coverage or not. Nonetheless, we need desperately to change our 2 min D away from playing not to lose and blitzing, however many guys it takes. Neither Peyton nor Favre did well when we had guys in their faces all nite. On Colts last scoring drive we didn't...and we should have, regardless of what time it was.
If Dre Bly didn't get that phantom penalty at 4th and 10 we wouldn't be having this discussion.
ITs called no pass rush when you really need it, coupled with quarters coverage, and teams start to realize that its another bend but dont break 2-min defense. Most of our pressure is manufactured from stunts and blitzes so we tend more times than not to sit back and keep everything in front, like last night. Luckily we had #32 deep enough in coverage to come up on the tight end for the game winning play but its truly a way to lose the game against a Pro-Bowl QB, which Cutler has not been this season...