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Do Passive Fans Make a Franchise Unsuccessful ?

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by backontop:
no unsuccessful franchises make passive fans. Give me something to cheer about damn it!

If that the case, then why do the Cowboys and Giants always seem to rebound in a few years time ? Dont you think the fanbase putting pressure on team mgmt to put out a winning roster has anything to do with it ?


Very little to do with it IMO. Of course fan dissatisfaction adds pressure to a franchise but I think most Owners want to win bad enough and don't need a flood of protests and negative comments from the fan base to realize that losing sucks.

As far as the ups and downs, I think when an Owner with his s**t together (Like Jones or Mara) decides to hit the franchise "re-set button" and makes the correct decisions, it shouldn't take more than four seasons to start challenging for the playoffs. As you correctly point out we're in year seven with the playoffs slipping away yet again. The question is do we now have an Owner/Administrator with his s**t together in young Jeddie D? . . . We'll see says the Zen Master.
  • ZRF80
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Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Great post Z! Fans seemed pretty excited for the 17 year run we had back in the day. We expected to win every game and rarely lost back to back games. The end game was win the superbowl or it was a failure. Now some fans are happy to hang with the big boys for 3 quarters and get pissed if anyone dares to critique managment. IMO, most players would rather play for eastern teams because of the passion that fans have which in turn forces management to field winners this year instead of talking about next year.

Exactly my point. You know, if this was the situation say 3-4 years ago, I would call it "growing pains". A young team learning to function as a unit. But 7 years separated from a playoff contender, and we're just happy that we could play catch up with the Colts. I mean seriously ? Is that all we want ? To hang in there with the playoff bound teams ?
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Great post Z! Fans seemed pretty excited for the 17 year run we had back in the day. We expected to win every game and rarely lost back to back games. The end game was win the superbowl or it was a failure. Now some fans are happy to hang with the big boys for 3 quarters and get pissed if anyone dares to critique managment. IMO, most players would rather play for eastern teams because of the passion that fans have which in turn forces management to field winners this year instead of talking about next year.

You guys are confusing cause and effect.

Winning teams bring fans.

Fans don't bring winning teams.

-9fA

Im not so sure about that. The fans themselves dont field a winning team, but they do have influence on how the team runs its day to day operations. I think Dallas is a great example of this. The fans push for a better team; they show their discontent when the Boys are struggling. I think this DOES play a role in front management's aggression (or lack thereof) of putting together a more solid unit.

Niner fans have been content with the garbage we put on the field for years. Look at all of us. How many years does a franchise need to rebuild ? It's year 7 post Mooch, and more than a decade has elapsed since the dynasty ended. Yet, we sit around talking a good game and woulda, coulda, shouldas.....whereas we should be "rioting" (per se) for how low this franchise has sunk.

I just find it disappointing that even at this point, a lot of you guys are satisfied with the team and its production.

If you think any fans really are satisfied with what this team has done the last few years, you really must be mentally ill.
  • ZRF80
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  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Great post Z! Fans seemed pretty excited for the 17 year run we had back in the day. We expected to win every game and rarely lost back to back games. The end game was win the superbowl or it was a failure. Now some fans are happy to hang with the big boys for 3 quarters and get pissed if anyone dares to critique managment. IMO, most players would rather play for eastern teams because of the passion that fans have which in turn forces management to field winners this year instead of talking about next year.

You guys are confusing cause and effect.

Winning teams bring fans.

Fans don't bring winning teams.

-9fA

Im not so sure about that. The fans themselves dont field a winning team, but they do have influence on how the team runs its day to day operations. I think Dallas is a great example of this. The fans push for a better team; they show their discontent when the Boys are struggling. I think this DOES play a role in front management's aggression (or lack thereof) of putting together a more solid unit.

Niner fans have been content with the garbage we put on the field for years. Look at all of us. How many years does a franchise need to rebuild ? It's year 7 post Mooch, and more than a decade has elapsed since the dynasty ended. Yet, we sit around talking a good game and woulda, coulda, shouldas.....whereas we should be "rioting" (per se) for how low this franchise has sunk.

I just find it disappointing that even at this point, a lot of you guys are satisfied with the team and its production.

If you think any fans really are satisfied with what this team has done the last few years, you really must be mentally ill.

Dude, take a trip through Ninertalk. Eliminate the typical "knee jerk" reaction threads, and you'll find a good chunk of the Niner faithful satisfied with this team. Most think that this team is exactly where they expected it to be; and the majority of polls that have happy/sad options seem to be favor the "happy".
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by backontop:
no unsuccessful franchises make passive fans. Give me something to cheer about damn it!

If that the case, then why do the Cowboys and Giants always seem to rebound in a few years time ? Dont you think the fanbase putting pressure on team mgmt to put out a winning roster has anything to do with it ?

did you not read what I wrote? The teams poor perfomances is the cause for the poor fan base. I never wrote anything about management or the fanbase putting pressure on the team. The management will do what "they" feel is best for the team. That is why it is important to have the right guys in the right positions so they make the right desicions. Not stuff like cut Allen Rossum with out a replacement
The YORKS don't need to win and they don't care about winning. They fill up the stadium and sell merchandise even though we suck year after year. As long as they make money and don't spend too much it's all good with them.

They have people conviced we are getting a new stadium right here on this very WZ. Despite the fact they don't even have a location after around a decade much less a clue about how to finance it.

We have very gullible fans and that fits perfectly into the YORKS plans. This would never happen in NY. The NY media and fans will beat up on you. They demand winners. We are ok with mediocrity.

I don't think fans have any influence on the day to day operations of a football team.

Fans don't dictate which GM is hired, which HC is hired or what players are signed or drafted.

I don't see how the Cowboys' fanbase is different from any other fanbase. What exactly did they do to show their discontent? I personally can't recall anything special.

-9fA
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Dude, take a trip through Ninertalk. Eliminate the typical "knee jerk" reaction threads, and you'll find a good chunk of the Niner faithful satisfied with this team. Most think that this team is exactly where they expected it to be; and the majority of polls that have happy/sad options seem to be favor the "happy".

Well you predicted this team to go 1-15.

So by that account, hasn't the team exceeded your expectations?

-9fA
I disagree and i think the Yorks know winning will get them a lot more money. Drafting early gets expensive and we signed guys for big money like Smith, Jones and Clements.

Poor QB play and Bad FA signings "Jones", are why were unsuccessful.

The Browns have some pretty aggressive fans but their team blows, and same with the Redskins. It's management not fans.
  • krizay
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Fans can't make a bad player play good or a good player play bad.

Fans have no bearing on performance on a football field. Basketball court yes. Football field no.
The only way a fan can contribute to a game is by cheering loud as hell on 3rd down making the opposing team call a timeout or cause a delay of game penalty. Other than that, fans aren't responsible for crap
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Great post Z! Fans seemed pretty excited for the 17 year run we had back in the day. We expected to win every game and rarely lost back to back games. The end game was win the superbowl or it was a failure. Now some fans are happy to hang with the big boys for 3 quarters and get pissed if anyone dares to critique managment. IMO, most players would rather play for eastern teams because of the passion that fans have which in turn forces management to field winners this year instead of talking about next year.

You guys are confusing cause and effect.

Winning teams bring fans.

Fans don't bring winning teams.

-9fA

Im not so sure about that. The fans themselves dont field a winning team, but they do have influence on how the team runs its day to day operations. I think Dallas is a great example of this. The fans push for a better team; they show their discontent when the Boys are struggling. I think this DOES play a role in front management's aggression (or lack thereof) of putting together a more solid unit.

Niner fans have been content with the garbage we put on the field for years. Look at all of us. How many years does a franchise need to rebuild ? It's year 7 post Mooch, and more than a decade has elapsed since the dynasty ended. Yet, we sit around talking a good game and woulda, coulda, shouldas.....whereas we should be "rioting" (per se) for how low this franchise has sunk.

I just find it disappointing that even at this point, a lot of you guys are satisfied with the team and its production.

If you think any fans really are satisfied with what this team has done the last few years, you really must be mentally ill.

Dude, take a trip through Ninertalk. Eliminate the typical "knee jerk" reaction threads, and you'll find a good chunk of the Niner faithful satisfied with this team. Most think that this team is exactly where they expected it to be; and the majority of polls that have happy/sad options seem to be favor the "happy".

Who gives a flying f**k what Niner Talk has to say, do you think the majority of the people in NT know jack s**t about football?

By the way, you grossly overestimate the affect that fans have on most NFL teams. You and I, as fans, have no control over what happens on the field. All we can do is choose to support the team with our money. If you choose to stop spending your money on a team if they don't meet your standards, that's fine, you can do what you want. Most fans won't do that however, because we love our team and football in general. That does NOT mean that anyone is happy with mediocrity and has settled for anything.

I haven't been happy with our current losing streak, but the only reason that it's been easier to stomach than in previous seasons for me is because I believe that under Nolan, we would've been SLAUGHTERED in the games that we lost instead of keeping them close. I want to win obviously, but I'll take a close loss over getting slaughtered, except for the Vikings loss, that f**king sucked worse than any regular season loss I've seen in a very long time
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Great post Z! Fans seemed pretty excited for the 17 year run we had back in the day. We expected to win every game and rarely lost back to back games. The end game was win the superbowl or it was a failure. Now some fans are happy to hang with the big boys for 3 quarters and get pissed if anyone dares to critique managment. IMO, most players would rather play for eastern teams because of the passion that fans have which in turn forces management to field winners this year instead of talking about next year.

You guys are confusing cause and effect.

Winning teams bring fans.

Fans don't bring winning teams.

-9fA

Im not so sure about that. The fans themselves dont field a winning team, but they do have influence on how the team runs its day to day operations. I think Dallas is a great example of this. The fans push for a better team; they show their discontent when the Boys are struggling. I think this DOES play a role in front management's aggression (or lack thereof) of putting together a more solid unit.

Niner fans have been content with the garbage we put on the field for years. Look at all of us. How many years does a franchise need to rebuild ? It's year 7 post Mooch, and more than a decade has elapsed since the dynasty ended. Yet, we sit around talking a good game and woulda, coulda, shouldas.....whereas we should be "rioting" (per se) for how low this franchise has sunk.

I just find it disappointing that even at this point, a lot of you guys are satisfied with the team and its production.

If you think any fans really are satisfied with what this team has done the last few years, you really must be mentally ill.

Dude, take a trip through Ninertalk. Eliminate the typical "knee jerk" reaction threads, and you'll find a good chunk of the Niner faithful satisfied with this team. Most think that this team is exactly where they expected it to be; and the majority of polls that have happy/sad options seem to be favor the "happy".

Who gives a flying f**k what Niner Talk has to say, do you think the majority of the people in NT know jack s**t about football?

By the way, you grossly overestimate the affect that fans have on most NFL teams. You and I, as fans, have no control over what happens on the field. All we can do is choose to support the team with our money. If you choose to stop spending your money on a team if they don't meet your standards, that's fine, you can do what you want. Most fans won't do that however, because we love our team and football in general. That does NOT mean that anyone is happy with mediocrity and has settled for anything.

I haven't been happy with our current losing streak, but the only reason that it's been easier to stomach than in previous seasons for me is because I believe that under Nolan, we would've been SLAUGHTERED in the games that we lost instead of keeping them close. I want to win obviously, but I'll take a close loss over getting slaughtered, except for the Vikings loss, that f**king sucked worse than any regular season loss I've seen in a very long time

So true...
When fans get fed up and don't buy tickets, luxury boxes, beers, hot dogs, shirts and jackets then owners pressure the front office to field winners or they find someone who will. This is how aggressive fans influence franchises. Redskins stadium banned signs after too many fans brought signs complaining about Snyder and Zorn.
Passive fans, on the other hand, allow owership to to have several (7 and counting) losing seasons in a row without demanding something be done.

[ Edited by Ronnie49Lott on Nov 10, 2009 at 20:33:14 ]
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Most fans, in general, are pretty stupid. The Eagles fans booed when they drafted Donovan McNabb. What if the Eagles (since their fans aren't "passive") decided to trade him because of this? They'd probably be a different team right now, and I'm sure the fans are grateful they stuck with McNabb.

Take a look around this site, especially on the day of the game. Isaac Bruce makes a nice catch and everyone starts begging the ownership to give him more playing time. He drops a pass and everyone wants him cut. It's ridiculous, and the OP thinks that the fans are the ones who make the franchise unsuccessful? No, the fans just whine and moan, but most teams know that most fans are clueless. They don't pay attention. The only time they'll pay attention is if they stop filling up the stadium.