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The 49ers Are STILL a Team in Transition - DEAL WITH IT

  • fanoe
  • Info N/A
they will always be a team in transistion UNTIL they get a real NFL quality top 10 QB.
Originally posted by fanoe:
they will always be a team in transistion UNTIL they get a real NFL quality top 10 QB.

Yeah, nothing else is wrong wiht the 49ers. It's all the QB position. Oline is ok. We got a great pass rush and the DB situation is A-OK! Awesome.

[ Edited by taney71 on Nov 10, 2009 at 11:16:25 ]
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by NinerGM:

When has Jones contributed? When has Evans done anything impactful for the team. Again, those who defend the current regime need to give me time. 3 more years? 4 more years? I'm just tired of hearing the old refrain of "we're getting there...." Pashos was an emergency policy that came with a warning - so did Smith - so did Jones. The huge failure is those mis-steps cost the OL continuity.

Give me a season when you think Scott's picks will play/execute/perform? It took Davis 5 seasons, jury isn't just out on Rachal, it's out on Baas, Snyder, Balmer, Smith, Wallace, Lawson, Brown, Golds-on - all of these are starters dude.

Yes they are good on the highlight reel but when will the talent turn into wins?

If you're going to defend Scott, then set a time when he will "come through". Yes I got 2 firsts but what good is money if you use it as kindling.

Please provide a time.

The time frame is up to you and everyone else who wants immediate wins. Patience is out for ya...I get it. I have already ID'd my time frame for him. Scotty gets one more year in my book. Jed and Coach just started so I'm more apt to give those two more time.

If you were to wipe all three out and bring in Kraft as the owner, Holmgren as GM and Shanny as HC, you still have to have the question of continuity on the team and this team is no where near the talent void of 2004 so those three get the benefit of better talent and structure...they would not, I repeat, not have to start from scratch the way Nolan and Scotty did.

GM you don't have a time table anymore, you just don't. Your language makes it pretty clear of your position and that's ok. I never said you were wrong. I just said you are done.

Whether you want to be patient or not is at the crux here. I already agreed that Scotty has a short leash. I already made my arguments concerning why Scotty has actually had success with picks and FAs.

I will take your Davis point...5 seasons? He was drafted in 2006 if I recall. I have seen numerous articles by respected former coaches, analysts, etc. about how he wasn't utilized properly by the last three OCs especially Martz who just kept him back as an extra blocker. This season is where he is showing what he can do and it is evident. So his success now means nothing because of how he developed? So we can't include him as one of Scotty's successes? That just seems ludicrous.

Again, I view Scotty's FULL responsibility as GM as of 2008 therefore Baas, Snyder, Smith, Lawson, Brown, Golds-on are Nolan's primary picks...even Willis as much as Scotty influenced Nolan over Carriker. Now if you want to lump Balmer, Rachal, Reggie Smith, all the 2008 and 2009 picks and FAs together and ID successes and failure, I'm right there with ya.

However, I choose not to view the failures of the past as a mirror into our future. I choose to see the success and build off of them and learn from the failures.

The one thing is for certain, Singletary does not keep it status quo. He sees a need for a change, he has the courage to implement it. He did it last year with Hill over JTO. He did it this year with Smith over Hill, Crabtree over Morgan and Jones, J. Hill now over Bruce, and of course others. Then add the OL flux due to injury.

When have we had continuity on offense, hmmmm, when? We haven't since 2002!!!

Even when we get a new OC and he seems like a perfect fit, he has to change the entire philosphy because the talent warrants it? That sounds like flux again.

No GM, it is not Scotty's fault, but he may ultimately have to be the responsible one for the failures and be axed at the end of the season. I just don't see it though.

We are still in flux, no continuity on offense, yet. Now that D is another story altogether and don't get me started on the pass rushers because dude, you are soooo right and have been about that topic!

As for this topic, lets just say we disagree, fundamentally.


I did read the entire post, but if you think waiting 6 seasons and "demanding immediate wins" is the case, you've got to be kidding. I just don't see how waiting for the team to come around for 6 rebuilding season as immediate.

The key here is hope. So as much as you want to believe Nolan was completely in control, that's fine. However, Scotty had to have known the bar was high when he took over and what did do?

Gamble of Marvel Smith which was a monumental failure. Why? Because it generated this false sense that the OL was "okay" and that it had "depth". Why was this a huge failing, because the main issue that has directly costs us wins have been the poor play by the OL, and now depth. This was followed by signing oft-injured Brandon Jones who can't even get on the field - and even if Bruce was coming on, Jones still gets beat out by the oft-penalized Josh Morgan, because our base formation is 2WR, 2TE.

I know you don't like to "focus on the past" but those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. It's like that movie Groundhog Day - just every season. So Scott has two #1 draft picks. He has yet to prove he knows what to do with one, let alone two.

At least with a new regime I have hope that they will certainly take a different direction instead of what's been followed previously. I try to learn from my mistakes, try to learn from history. The reason why I'm done now because in February I saw this coming and I said "so goes the OL, so goes the 49ers season." I hammered on the Marvel Smith signing because it was very sketchy. And then when Adam Snyder declares he could start, I laughed because it's been proven in previous years that Snyder is a good bench player. But no, we said "good enough" just like Nolan had done in years past.

I didn't see a significant change in the personnel decisions in the off-season that made me believe now that Scott has "total control" that their would be a different approach.

I'm sorry dude, but where the team is currently, the GM has completely lost my trust.
Originally posted by DrE_DiESeL97:
When was the last time a 49er team this decade was in a position to win games against a former Super Bowl champion like the Indianapolis Colts or a current favorite like the Minnesota Vikings?

All this Alex sucks stuff and fire the GM and Coach Sing is crazy threads won't earn your team a WIN at all.

The offensive line play has been poor and Alex Smith has made some bone headed decisions, but they're finally putting points up on the board and moving the ball down the field like a PROFESSIONAL football team.

The pass rush is no doubt bi-polar and injuries have shredded the secondary. The deck is stacked even higher and the San Francisco 49ers need to learn to finish games WITH THE LEAD and not shoot themselves in the foot, as what happened during this losing streak.

They're still crawling and not in the "walking phase" or "running phase" yet.

They are still a 7-9 team until they prove OTHERWISE.

I agree wholeheartedly. Too many fans these days don't understand that it takes more than one off season to rebuild a team. We are headed in the right direction and aren't doing as bad as some of the whiners try to make out. I guess they forget how bad this team was in 05, it was honestly the absolute worst team I have ever seen the niners field in my 30+ years as a fan of the team. I have the patience to let the coach do their job, and I believe we have the right coaches in place, and that our QB situation will work out. Kudos to you for not being one of the knee jerk reactionaries that are so prevalent on this excellent site.
Originally posted by djfullshred:
What do you mean deal with it?

I just watch, and sometimes share my opinion about the team here. Since I have never had to deal with their issues personally, I am not sure what I should be doing on that front.

I think he means quit whining about every little growing pain that we go through, though I don't remember you being one of those guys that whine about every little thing that goes wrong.
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Thank you....everybody seems so upset....but at the beginning of the year it was clear to me we where a 7-9 to 10-6 team give or take a game......but we will be much better next year with another for the players to Gel and build some consitancy.

i think the problem is that we are all getting sick of having to wait for "next year". We have been waiting for "next year" every year....
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
This is a 10 YEARS REBUILD. It's still on schedule. And 27 year old Jed York has got it all figured out. He's got the experience.

Yeah...he's the second coming of Bill Polian
Originally posted by Daniel2778:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Thank you....everybody seems so upset....but at the beginning of the year it was clear to me we where a 7-9 to 10-6 team give or take a game......but we will be much better next year with another for the players to Gel and build some consitancy.

i think the problem is that we are all getting sick of having to wait for "next year". We have been waiting for "next year" every year....

YES, but for those people out there that complain that it's been 7 years since being a playoff team, AND THEN argue that Singletary is an inept coach are just plain DUMB and INPATIENT. Yes Singletary isn't a perfect coach, but some people don't realize that he's a rookie HC. To him, all of this 7 years CRAP doesn't matter to him because he's only been here for a year. He can't do anything about what happened before him.

If people want to talk about the last 7 years, know this, Singletary is a better coach than the coaches in the past 7 years (Erickson and Nolan). The team is ALREADY better in his first year than it ever was in the past 7 years. Or course, the team isn't going to be perfect, but in due time, we will make the playoffs again.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE, if you followed this team for the past 7 years, you KNOW that this team has gotten a hell of a lot better. Now just because you know that, doesn't mean you get to have rocket-high expectations in the first year. We're improving, and that's all that matters to me.
Let's review shall we? Those of you who have been waiting, let's walk through how we got here because it wasn't overnight. Let's review why there are some fans who are frustrated beyond this season and are expecting more from the 49ers because we know it goes well before this season. Not all of us are "knee-jerk" fans who expected all of this to be resolved in one off season. I think most fans start with 2005 as the "rebuild" and are tired of being told that we want immediate results. So here's my question: how much time do you need? Just let us know. 5 seasons, 6? 7? 10? Tell us the average time it takes to rebuild a team from scratch in the NFL and provide some examples.

2005 - 4-12

Granted. Really bad terrible team.

2006 7-9

Soon after the end of the 2005 season, Mike McCarthy, the 49ers' offensive coordinator of one year, left for the Green Bay Packers. On January 17, 2006, the 49ers hired Norv Turner as McCarthy's replacement. Whereas McCarthy based the majority of his offense on Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense, Turner has been known to use a power running scheme and vertical passing game more often than the West Coast scheme. Turner came to the 49ers after two unsuccessful seasons as the head coach of the 49ers' crossbay rivals, the Oakland Raiders.

The 49ers gained the 6th pick in the 2006 NFL Draft after winning a coin toss with the Oakland Raiders at the scouting combine in Indianapolis. The 49ers used their first pick on Maryland Tight End Vernon Davis. They then used their next pick (acquired from the Denver Broncos via the Washington Redskins) on North Carolina St. Defensive End Manny Lawson. The rest of their picks were Wisconsin Wide Receiver Brandon Williams, Penn St. RB Michael Robinson, Tennessee DE Parys Haralson, Central Missouri St. Wide Receiver Delanie Walker, North Carolina St. Safety Marcus Hudson, Louisiana St. DE Melvin Oliver, and Arkansas Safety Vickiel Vaughn.

The 49ers had two major free agent acquisitions in the off season. Larry Allen, a perennial Pro Bowl left guard from the Dallas Cowboys, and Antonio Bryant, a talented but oft-troubled wide receiver from the Cleveland Browns. The 49ers also traded Kevan Barlow to the New York Jets for what is believed to be a 2007 4th round draft pick.

2007 5- 11

Free agency

The 49ers addressed their problems in the secondary with the signing of veteran cornerback Nate Clements from the Buffalo Bills. The contract was worth $80 million for 8 years, the largest contract given to a defensive player in NFL history. They also signed strong safety Michael Lewis from Philadelphia on the same day. Other key defensive pickups included linebackers Colby Bockwoldt and Tully Banta-Cain and nosetackle Aubrayo Franklin. The team also addressed its wide-receiver needs by signing former Denver Bronco and Atlanta Falcon, Ashley Lelie and Seattle Seahawk, Darrell Jackson. San Francisco also used the free agency period to extend Gore's contract to 4 years worth $28 million, $14 million of which is guaranteed.
[edit] Draft

In the 2007 NFL draft, they addressed their need for an inside linebacker by picking Patrick Willis in the first round and also gave up their 2008 first round pick to the New England Patriots and selected 28 overall Offensive Tackle Joe Staley. In the 2nd round the 49ers traded their pick for the Colts' number one pick in the 2008 NFL Draft. On the second day of the NFL Draft, the San Francisco 49ers traded a 4th round pick for Seattle Seahawks leading receiver, Darrell Jackson.

2008 7-9

Despite a disappointing season in 2007, Mike Nolan was retained as head coach. With the 49ers offense struggling the previous season, offensive coordinator Jim Hostler was fired and replaced by Mike Martz. In addition, Scot McCloughan was promoted from vice president of player personnel to general manager. Mike Nolan was fired after a 29-17 loss to the New York Giants in Week 8.

Signings

Pos. Player Free Agent Type 2007 Team Contract
WR Isaac Bruce Released St. Louis Rams 2 years, $6 million [1]
RB DeShaun Foster Released Carolina Panthers 2 years, $1.8 million [1]
LB Roderick Green UFA San Francisco 49ers 1 year
QB Shaun Hill UFA San Francisco 49ers 3 years, $6 million [2]
WR Bryant Johnson UFA Arizona Cardinals 1 year [3]
QB J. T. O'Sullivan UFA Detroit Lions 1 year, $645,000 [1]
CB Allen Rossum Released Pittsburgh Steelers 1 year, $870,000 [1]
DE Justin Smith UFA Cincinnati Bengals 6 years, $45 million [4]
DT Isaac Sopoaga UFA San Francisco 49ers 5 years, $20 million [5]
CB Donald Strickland UFA San Francisco 49ers 1 year, $800,000 [6]
LB Dontarrious Thomas UFA Minnesota Vikings 2 years [1]

Draft

1 29 DT Kentwan Balmer North Carolina Pick from the Indianapolis Colts
2 39 G Chilo Rachal USC
3 75 CB Reggie Smith Oklahoma Swapped picks with Chicago Bears due to tampering
4 107 C Cody Wallace Texas A&M
5 --- --- --- --- Forfeited due to tampering
6 174 WR Josh Morgan Virginia Tech
7 214 LB Larry Grant Ohio State

2009 Currently 3-5

he 49ers released Mike Martz on December 30, 2008. One day following the firing of Martz, the 49ers released quarterbacks coach Ted Tollner and running backs coach Tony Nathan. "To get where we needed to go, I felt those decisions needed to be made at this time," said Mike Singletary.[4] Tony Nathan's replacement came on January 7, 2009 when former 49ers' fullback Tom Rathman agreed to become the new running backs coach.[5]

Before the 49ers found a new quarterbacks coach, they introduced two new coaching positions on January 12, 2009. Mike Singletary's nephew Vantz Singletary became the 49ers' inside linebackers coach, while Al Harris was signed as the 49ers' pass rush specialist coach.[6]

One month after the firing of Martz, Jimmy Raye was finally hired as offensive coordinator, making him the seventh offensive coordinator in seven years for the 49ers. Along with the hiring of Raye, Ted Tollner's replacement Mike Johnson was signed as the 49ers' quarterback coach.[7]

The 49ers' next coaching addition would be Jason Michael as an offensive assistant on March 6, 2009.[8]

Draft

Michael Crabtree
2 Traded Traded to the Carolina Panthers
Glen Coffee
4 Traded Traded to the Carolina Panthers
Scott McKillop
Nate Davis
Bear Pascoe Compensatory Pick
Curtis Taylor
Ricky Jean-Francois Compensatory Pick

FA

Marvel Smith
Brandon Jones
Demetric Evans
Dre Bly
Tony Pashos

*Special thanks to Wikipedia and Ninernation

[ Edited by NinerGM on Nov 10, 2009 at 12:31:25 ]
Originally posted by FourNine49:
Originally posted by Daniel2778:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Thank you....everybody seems so upset....but at the beginning of the year it was clear to me we where a 7-9 to 10-6 team give or take a game......but we will be much better next year with another for the players to Gel and build some consitancy.

i think the problem is that we are all getting sick of having to wait for "next year". We have been waiting for "next year" every year....

YES, but for those people out there that complain that it's been 7 years since being a playoff team, AND THEN argue that Singletary is an inept coach are just plain DUMB and INPATIENT. Yes Singletary isn't a perfect coach, but some people don't realize that he's a rookie HC. To him, all of this 7 years CRAP doesn't matter to him because he's only been here for a year. He can't do anything about what happened before him.

If people want to talk about the last 7 years, know this, Singletary is a better coach than the coaches in the past 7 years (Erickson and Nolan). The team is ALREADY better in his first year than it ever was in the past 7 years. Or course, the team isn't going to be perfect, but in due time, we will make the playoffs again.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE, if you followed this team for the past 7 years, you KNOW that this team has gotten a hell of a lot better. Now just because you know that, doesn't mean you get to have rocket-high expectations in the first year. We're improving, and that's all that matters to me.

We are 3-5...we are better than WHAT? The Raiders?

[ Edited by Bobbi9698 on Nov 10, 2009 at 12:25:55 ]
  • fanoe
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by fanoe:
they will always be a team in transistion UNTIL they get a real NFL quality top 10 QB.

Yeah, nothing else is wrong wiht the 49ers. It's all the QB position. Oline is ok. We got a great pass rush and the DB situation is A-OK! Awesome.

I believe that when you have a healthy top notch QB, you are in the playoff race each and every year regardless if you're team is loaded or just semi-loaded.
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by FourNine49:
Originally posted by Daniel2778:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Thank you....everybody seems so upset....but at the beginning of the year it was clear to me we where a 7-9 to 10-6 team give or take a game......but we will be much better next year with another for the players to Gel and build some consitancy.

i think the problem is that we are all getting sick of having to wait for "next year". We have been waiting for "next year" every year....

YES, but for those people out there that complain that it's been 7 years since being a playoff team, AND THEN argue that Singletary is an inept coach are just plain DUMB and INPATIENT. Yes Singletary isn't a perfect coach, but some people don't realize that he's a rookie HC. To him, all of this 7 years CRAP doesn't matter to him because he's only been here for a year. He can't do anything about what happened before him.

If people want to talk about the last 7 years, know this, Singletary is a better coach than the coaches in the past 7 years (Erickson and Nolan). The team is ALREADY better in his first year than it ever was in the past 7 years. Or course, the team isn't going to be perfect, but in due time, we will make the playoffs again.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE, if you followed this team for the past 7 years, you KNOW that this team has gotten a hell of a lot better. Now just because you know that, doesn't mean you get to have rocket-high expectations in the first year. We're improving, and that's all that matters to me.

We are 3-4...we are better than WHAT? The Raiders?

Did you even read my post? Or are you more concerned with post whoring? We are a better team than we ever were in the past 7 years (arguable against the yr with Norv as our OC).

And on that note, EVERYONE is better than the Raiders
Originally posted by FourNine49:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by FourNine49:
Originally posted by Daniel2778:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Thank you....everybody seems so upset....but at the beginning of the year it was clear to me we where a 7-9 to 10-6 team give or take a game......but we will be much better next year with another for the players to Gel and build some consitancy.

i think the problem is that we are all getting sick of having to wait for "next year". We have been waiting for "next year" every year....

YES, but for those people out there that complain that it's been 7 years since being a playoff team, AND THEN argue that Singletary is an inept coach are just plain DUMB and INPATIENT. Yes Singletary isn't a perfect coach, but some people don't realize that he's a rookie HC. To him, all of this 7 years CRAP doesn't matter to him because he's only been here for a year. He can't do anything about what happened before him.

If people want to talk about the last 7 years, know this, Singletary is a better coach than the coaches in the past 7 years (Erickson and Nolan). The team is ALREADY better in his first year than it ever was in the past 7 years. Or course, the team isn't going to be perfect, but in due time, we will make the playoffs again.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE, if you followed this team for the past 7 years, you KNOW that this team has gotten a hell of a lot better. Now just because you know that, doesn't mean you get to have rocket-high expectations in the first year. We're improving, and that's all that matters to me.

We are 3-4...we are better than WHAT? The Raiders?

Did you even read my post? Or are you more concerned with post whoring? We are a better team than we ever were in the past 7 years (arguable against the yr with Norv as our OC).

And on that note, EVERYONE is better than the Raiders

No, I just disagree with you...I do not think we are better...we have the same old problems--no QB, bad OL, no pass rush, ho-hum, ho-hum
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by FourNine49:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by FourNine49:
Originally posted by Daniel2778:
Originally posted by Ninerbowl6:
Thank you....everybody seems so upset....but at the beginning of the year it was clear to me we where a 7-9 to 10-6 team give or take a game......but we will be much better next year with another for the players to Gel and build some consitancy.

i think the problem is that we are all getting sick of having to wait for "next year". We have been waiting for "next year" every year....

YES, but for those people out there that complain that it's been 7 years since being a playoff team, AND THEN argue that Singletary is an inept coach are just plain DUMB and INPATIENT. Yes Singletary isn't a perfect coach, but some people don't realize that he's a rookie HC. To him, all of this 7 years CRAP doesn't matter to him because he's only been here for a year. He can't do anything about what happened before him.

If people want to talk about the last 7 years, know this, Singletary is a better coach than the coaches in the past 7 years (Erickson and Nolan). The team is ALREADY better in his first year than it ever was in the past 7 years. Or course, the team isn't going to be perfect, but in due time, we will make the playoffs again.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE, if you followed this team for the past 7 years, you KNOW that this team has gotten a hell of a lot better. Now just because you know that, doesn't mean you get to have rocket-high expectations in the first year. We're improving, and that's all that matters to me.

We are 3-4...we are better than WHAT? The Raiders?

Did you even read my post? Or are you more concerned with post whoring? We are a better team than we ever were in the past 7 years (arguable against the yr with Norv as our OC).

And on that note, EVERYONE is better than the Raiders

No, I just disagree with you...I do not think we are better...we have the same old problems--no QB, bad OL, no pass rush, ho-hum, ho-hum

True, but let's not dismiss the things that have progressed: Better DLine and LBs, better WR corps, more production from the TE, and above all, a coach that the whole team believs in, EVEN STILL, after losing 4 straight
  • GORO
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,835
Originally posted by DrE_DiESeL97:
Originally posted by amir_tn80:
Yeah this is a team in transition. Eternal transition. Chalk that up to another lame excuse by the naive homer fans. Five years after hitting rock bottom this team is still getting outplayed and making dumbass mistakes week after week and losing games. If some of you want to be like sheep and accept it, fine. Go right ahead. But don't expect the entire fan base to be satisfied with the results on the field. Some of us have a higher standard and are fed up with 7 straight seasons of losing football. Close losses against better teams are still losses. Good teams win close games, bad teams lose close games. After 6 years of so-called transition we still only have moral victories to celebrate.

Bill Walsh's team took a COUPLE of years before anything started to work.

Yeah we need continuity. Even if it means keeping Raye as OC