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Smith Wasn't As Bad as the Stats

Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
However, that pattern has existed throughout Alex's career. For some reason, he takes 2 steps back for every step forward. It's the main reason Hill even got a chance.

WTF? Hill got his chance because Alex had a separated shoulder and Dilfer also got hurt. Hill got his 2nd chance because Alex was on IR and JTO was not playing well at all....

And Hill got his 3rd chance because a healthy Smith just did not play better than him during training camp & preseason this season.
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
No, Smith wasn't as bad as the stats. You can certainly look at some of the plays and say that the recievers should have made a catch, or that plays were flukes or that the D just made a good, or even great play.

However, that pattern has existed throughout Alex's career. For some reason, he takes 2 steps back for every step forward. It's the main reason Hill even got a chance.

You just can't turn the ball over that much. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. This wasn't a fluke game, it is the pattern of his career. Sooner or later, the pattern defines the player.

Just like in the real world, if you have an employee who is always late, eventually it doesn't matter WHY they are late, and if it really isn't their "fault" most of the time. It just isn't acceptable.

Without any, let alone a few or all of those turnovers, we have every chance to win that game. Maybe easily. If he can't figure out how to play turnover free football, no matter whose "fault" it is, then he can't be a starting QB in the NFL.
Turning the ball over has NOT been a pattern for Alex Smith throughout his career.

His career turnover stats were grossly inflated by the Antonio Bryant year. That year Bryant had the highest number of picks on passes thrown to him of any receiver in the league. In many cases he simply made little effort to up for the ball. His lack of effort, despite being tall and strong, allowed defenders to take the ball away. Of Smith's 16 picks that year, 11 were to Bryant. That lack of effort hurt not only Smith, but the 49ers as well, and to a large degree, led to Bryant being cut after his DUI incident.

As Gannon and many others have said, the lack of consistency in offensive philosophy and quality coaching has just been crazy. What Smith needs now is to just stay the course and get some serious PT in the Raye system. There are definite signs of improvement in his mechanics but he is also working with some very inexperienced receivers right now. This is a growth curve that will take some time to evaluate.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
No, Smith wasn't as bad as the stats. You can certainly look at some of the plays and say that the recievers should have made a catch, or that plays were flukes or that the D just made a good, or even great play.

However, that pattern has existed throughout Alex's career. For some reason, he takes 2 steps back for every step forward. It's the main reason Hill even got a chance.

You just can't turn the ball over that much. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. This wasn't a fluke game, it is the pattern of his career. Sooner or later, the pattern defines the player.

Just like in the real world, if you have an employee who is always late, eventually it doesn't matter WHY they are late, and if it really isn't their "fault" most of the time. It just isn't acceptable.

Without any, let alone a few or all of those turnovers, we have every chance to win that game. Maybe easily. If he can't figure out how to play turnover free football, no matter whose "fault" it is, then he can't be a starting QB in the NFL.
Turning the ball over has NOT been a pattern for Alex Smith throughout his career.

His career turnover stats were grossly inflated by the Antonio Bryant year. That year Bryant had the highest number of picks on passes thrown to him of any receiver in the league. In many cases he simply made little effort to up for the ball. His lack of effort, despite being tall and strong, allowed defenders to take the ball away. Of Smith's 16 picks that year, 11 were to Bryant. That lack of effort hurt not only Smith, but the 49ers as well, and to a large degree, led to Bryant being cut after his DUI incident.

As Gannon and many others have said, the lack of consistency in offensive philosophy and quality coaching has just been crazy. What Smith needs now is to just stay the course and get some serious PT in the Raye system. There are definite signs of improvement in his mechanics but he is also working with some very inexperienced receivers right now. This is a growth curve that will take some time to evaluate.

Alex fumbled the ball often also. Look, the kid looks like he may be good but let us not deviate from what he has shown. He has shown to fumble and throw INTs. Blaming that on Antonio Bryant is like me blaming JTO's careless play on Mike Martz's careless philosophy or Bryant Johnson's lack of desire.
I blame god for smith's play. If god created him better he would perform better. Smith is doing the best he can given his circumstances.
Originally posted by fister30:
I blame god for smith's play. If god created him better he would perform better. Smith is doing the best he can given his circumstances.

Correction, if God would have created the players around Smith better...because Smith is perfect.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
No, Smith wasn't as bad as the stats. You can certainly look at some of the plays and say that the recievers should have made a catch, or that plays were flukes or that the D just made a good, or even great play.

However, that pattern has existed throughout Alex's career. For some reason, he takes 2 steps back for every step forward. It's the main reason Hill even got a chance.

You just can't turn the ball over that much. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. This wasn't a fluke game, it is the pattern of his career. Sooner or later, the pattern defines the player.

Just like in the real world, if you have an employee who is always late, eventually it doesn't matter WHY they are late, and if it really isn't their "fault" most of the time. It just isn't acceptable.

Without any, let alone a few or all of those turnovers, we have every chance to win that game. Maybe easily. If he can't figure out how to play turnover free football, no matter whose "fault" it is, then he can't be a starting QB in the NFL.
Turning the ball over has NOT been a pattern for Alex Smith throughout his career.

His career turnover stats were grossly inflated by the Antonio Bryant year. That year Bryant had the highest number of picks on passes thrown to him of any receiver in the league. In many cases he simply made little effort to up for the ball. His lack of effort, despite being tall and strong, allowed defenders to take the ball away. Of Smith's 16 picks that year, 11 were to Bryant. That lack of effort hurt not only Smith, but the 49ers as well, and to a large degree, led to Bryant being cut after his DUI incident.

As Gannon and many others have said, the lack of consistency in offensive philosophy and quality coaching has just been crazy. What Smith needs now is to just stay the course and get some serious PT in the Raye system. There are definite signs of improvement in his mechanics but he is also working with some very inexperienced receivers right now. This is a growth curve that will take some time to evaluate.

Alex fumbled the ball often also. Look, the kid looks like he may be good but let us not deviate from what he has shown. He has shown to fumble and throw INTs. Blaming that on Antonio Bryant is like me blaming JTO's careless play on Mike Martz's careless philosophy or Bryant Johnson's lack of desire.

All true but we must also look at specific circumstances. The fumble was a fluke play, not at all like some of the fumbles from three years ago.

Also, Antonio Bryant's lack of effort is very different from JTO's careless play. In the case of O'Sullivan, he only showed his own lack of ability. In Bryant's case, it also reflected poorly, and unfairly, on Alex Smith.

Smith is not where I want him to be yet, but he is much better than the guy we saw pre-shoulder injuries. Credit: Mike Johnson.
Originally posted by fister30:
I blame god for smith's play. If god created him better he would perform better. Smith is doing the best he can given his circumstances.

No, Smith just hasn't "evolved" to a sufficient level to survive against nature.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
No, Smith wasn't as bad as the stats. You can certainly look at some of the plays and say that the recievers should have made a catch, or that plays were flukes or that the D just made a good, or even great play.

However, that pattern has existed throughout Alex's career. For some reason, he takes 2 steps back for every step forward. It's the main reason Hill even got a chance.

You just can't turn the ball over that much. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. This wasn't a fluke game, it is the pattern of his career. Sooner or later, the pattern defines the player.

Just like in the real world, if you have an employee who is always late, eventually it doesn't matter WHY they are late, and if it really isn't their "fault" most of the time. It just isn't acceptable.

Without any, let alone a few or all of those turnovers, we have every chance to win that game. Maybe easily. If he can't figure out how to play turnover free football, no matter whose "fault" it is, then he can't be a starting QB in the NFL.
Turning the ball over has NOT been a pattern for Alex Smith throughout his career.

His career turnover stats were grossly inflated by the Antonio Bryant year. That year Bryant had the highest number of picks on passes thrown to him of any receiver in the league. In many cases he simply made little effort to up for the ball. His lack of effort, despite being tall and strong, allowed defenders to take the ball away. Of Smith's 16 picks that year, 11 were to Bryant. That lack of effort hurt not only Smith, but the 49ers as well, and to a large degree, led to Bryant being cut after his DUI incident.

As Gannon and many others have said, the lack of consistency in offensive philosophy and quality coaching has just been crazy. What Smith needs now is to just stay the course and get some serious PT in the Raye system. There are definite signs of improvement in his mechanics but he is also working with some very inexperienced receivers right now. This is a growth curve that will take some time to evaluate.

Alex fumbled the ball often also. Look, the kid looks like he may be good but let us not deviate from what he has shown. He has shown to fumble and throw INTs. Blaming that on Antonio Bryant is like me blaming JTO's careless play on Mike Martz's careless philosophy or Bryant Johnson's lack of desire.

All true but we must also look at specific circumstances. The fumble was a fluke play, not at all like some of the fumbles from three years ago.

Also, Antonio Bryant's lack of effort is very different from JTO's careless play. In the case of O'Sullivan, he only showed his own lack of ability. In Bryant's case, it also reflected poorly, and unfairly, on Alex Smith.

Smith is not where I want him to be yet, but he is much better than the guy we saw pre-shoulder injuries. Credit: Mike Johnson.

Don't forget Smith fumbled twice. 2006 passing game was crap the times Bryant was out so helped Smith just as much. Also, Smith still has accuracy issues.
Quote:
Singletary: No faulting Smith
(11-09) 22:11 PST -- In the aftermath of his team's fourth straight defeat, Mike Singletary looked at the game tape of the 34-27 loss to Tennessee and professed satisfaction with the play of Alex Smith and the offensive line, even though the quarterback had four turnovers and was sacked four times. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/10/SP2S1AHK9Q.DTL

Singletary has verified your analysis, as well as the analysis of the rational Zoners.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
1. The Fumble wasn't his fault. Fluke play
2. 1st INT was also a fluke play -- right place, right time by the D
3. 3rd INT was Morgan's fault -- right place, right time by the D

Didn't look awesome (of course), but looked good in the 2 min drill (again) and made one big mistake (pick #2).

O-line didn't help him at all

Let's see, the fumbles could've gone either way (he's lucky Gore recovered the first one). The second one, even though Snyder got beat, he still held on to it too long.

The first INT, Alex let the ball hang, he didn't release fast enough, thus giving the safety a chance to make a break on the ball, the ball came after Crabtree already turned.

2nd INT, he didn't read the safety, and once again, threw it too late.

3rd pick, the receiver was tightly covered, he shouldn't have thrown the ball, either way, he doesn't get full blame for that one.

Yes, Alex lost us this game.

at the same time vd just sat there and watched the ball go round him and then frank got it. i love vernon but that was his to grab but he watched it unfold 2 ft in front of his face
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
Smith is pathetic. Singletary is also a moron for not keeping Hill active in the beginning of the year.

HATER!!!!! plain and simple..... or homer either one u pick

[ Edited by fan49 on Nov 10, 2009 at 10:02:58 ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
No, Smith wasn't as bad as the stats. You can certainly look at some of the plays and say that the recievers should have made a catch, or that plays were flukes or that the D just made a good, or even great play.

However, that pattern has existed throughout Alex's career. For some reason, he takes 2 steps back for every step forward. It's the main reason Hill even got a chance.

You just can't turn the ball over that much. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. This wasn't a fluke game, it is the pattern of his career. Sooner or later, the pattern defines the player.

Just like in the real world, if you have an employee who is always late, eventually it doesn't matter WHY they are late, and if it really isn't their "fault" most of the time. It just isn't acceptable.

Without any, let alone a few or all of those turnovers, we have every chance to win that game. Maybe easily. If he can't figure out how to play turnover free football, no matter whose "fault" it is, then he can't be a starting QB in the NFL.
Turning the ball over has NOT been a pattern for Alex Smith throughout his career.

His career turnover stats were grossly inflated by the Antonio Bryant year. That year Bryant had the highest number of picks on passes thrown to him of any receiver in the league. In many cases he simply made little effort to up for the ball. His lack of effort, despite being tall and strong, allowed defenders to take the ball away. Of Smith's 16 picks that year, 11 were to Bryant. That lack of effort hurt not only Smith, but the 49ers as well, and to a large degree, led to Bryant being cut after his DUI incident.

As Gannon and many others have said, the lack of consistency in offensive philosophy and quality coaching has just been crazy. What Smith needs now is to just stay the course and get some serious PT in the Raye system. There are definite signs of improvement in his mechanics but he is also working with some very inexperienced receivers right now. This is a growth curve that will take some time to evaluate.

Alex fumbled the ball often also. Look, the kid looks like he may be good but let us not deviate from what he has shown. He has shown to fumble and throw INTs. Blaming that on Antonio Bryant is like me blaming JTO's careless play on Mike Martz's careless philosophy or Bryant Johnson's lack of desire.

All true but we must also look at specific circumstances. The fumble was a fluke play, not at all like some of the fumbles from three years ago.

Also, Antonio Bryant's lack of effort is very different from JTO's careless play. In the case of O'Sullivan, he only showed his own lack of ability. In Bryant's case, it also reflected poorly, and unfairly, on Alex Smith.

Smith is not where I want him to be yet, but he is much better than the guy we saw pre-shoulder injuries. Credit: Mike Johnson.

Don't forget Smith fumbled twice. 2006 passing game was crap the times Bryant was out so helped Smith just as much. Also, Smith still has accuracy issues.

2006 also had at least two picks off the hands of Frank Gore. Also featured Kwame Harris at RT and Vernon Davis injured for half the year.
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Facts we can all agree on about Smith: (in order of importance)

1. Accuracy issues: For the most part, QBs are either accurate or they are not. This is a trait that rarely magically appears.

2. Staring down receivers: This is something that could get better with more playing time but it is also difficult to get away from but not as difficult as #1. If and when it clicks, he should be staring the defense down and not his receivers.

3. Avoiding the Strip-Sack: Most QBs never fix this issue. Shaun Hill was very, very good at clamping onto the ball when he sensed pressure. Take a look at Smith's fumble-totals in his career and you won't be surprised as to why he put 2 on the ground yesterday.


All-in-all, we threw 51 times with a QB who is still learning and most importantly trying to gain confidence in himself. That was the worst thing Jimmy Raye could have done as our running game was gaining solid yards. Gore should have had 20+ carries in this game.

Raye is all or nothing and this game was more his fault than Alex Smith's. Yes, Vince Young didn't do what Smith did but Young had ample time to throw because his team stuck with what was working, the run game. We should have done the same.

Pretty much agree with the conclusion. I'm not giving up on Alex yet, but I'm not sold either. He has the talent...but will it materialize?

He's been in the league since 05'...what do you think...

dude....... your thoughts are lame. "been here since 05." hill has been around for how many seasons...... and hill cant win, cant throw 15 yards and is less accurate then smithy. and how bout hill has never been thru an inkling of bulls**t or injuries that alex has in hills LONGER CAREER!!!!!!!
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by TexasNiner:
However, that pattern has existed throughout Alex's career. For some reason, he takes 2 steps back for every step forward. It's the main reason Hill even got a chance.

WTF? Hill got his chance because Alex had a separated shoulder and Dilfer also got hurt. Hill got his 2nd chance because Alex was on IR and JTO was not playing well at all....

And Hill got his 3rd chance because a healthy Smith just did not play better than him during training camp & preseason this season.

Actually that depends of who you ask. Neither of them had a good preseason but Hill's was just awful. If you remember correctly Smith had a broken finger and was going to be out for 2-4 weeks. They had no choice to name Hill when Smith wasn't going to be able to start until at least week 3.