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Defending Jimmy Raye (yes, defending Jimmy Raye)

Okay lets talk Jimmy Raye.... I just watched the Colts game again on NFL replay and it was clear to me that when Sims and Snyder did not have help outside, Alex Smith was either running for his life or was getting slammed into the ground. That is why I can't really bash Raye for not opening it up against Indy. With Sims and Snyder at the tackle spots, on the road, against Freeney and Mathis and the fact is it was Alex Smith's first start of the season and Michael Crabtree's 2nd game and 4th week in the NFL. So I know some would argue well we moved the ball late in the 1st half when we went no huddle and opened it up. Well watching it again, we really did not open it up all that much, Smith made a beautiful throw to Crabtree for about 30yrds but Crabtree was double teammed and on that set we only had 2 WR's and 2 tight ends. Plus the fact is teams play defense a little differently late in the half, the Colts went a little softer. The problem is we can't run the ball, if we could get 3-4 yards on 1st down it would make Raye's job that much easier and make him look that much smarter. So you say well why do we run the ball when we can't run the ball. Fact is we have to, we don't have the O-Line to just chuck it on every down and we just have to keep trying to pound it away, though I would try to open up passing the ball a bit more and being a bit more creative and than running the ball as I always have been a big believer in that the pass sets up the run. I also think you have to give SOME credit to Raye that he is finally the first OC we have that has utilized Vernon Davis properly.

Look, Im not a big Jimmy Raye fan, I think we could have done better at OC but the guy is not an idiot IMO. I think he just really handcuffed by a crappy O-Line and the fact is Alex Smith and Michael Crabtree our new to the lineup, have some patience.

If you don't think Raye has it in him to have a good passing offense well let me hit you with some numbers

1999 Kansas City Chiefs, Jimmy Raye was the OC: The Chiefs finished 8th best in the NFL in total offense. Elvis Grbac had his 2nd best season of his career for passing yards (3,389yds) and best for passing TD's (22). Tony Gonzalez in his 3rd NFL season caught 76 passes for 849yds and 11 TD's. Also Derrick Alexander had a solid year 54 catches (832yds) and Joe Horn had his first breakout NFL season coming over from the CFL and caught 35 for 586yds (16.7yds catch) and 6 TD's. Oh and the Chiefs as a team rushed for over 2,000yds and that is with a combination of Bam Morris, Kimbell Anders and Rashan Shehee running the football.


2000 Kansas Chiefs with Jimmy Raye as OC: Chiefs finished 9th in the NFL in total offense. Elvis Grbac had his best career season throwing for 4,169yds and 28 TD's. Tony Gonzalez had the 2nd best season of his career catching 93 passes for 1,202yds and 9 TD's. Derrick Alexander at wideout had 78 catches for 1,391yds and 10 TD's (his best single season of his career) and rookie Sylvester Morris had what turned to be his best season of his NFL career catching 48 passes for 678yds.

2001 Washington Redskins with Jimmy Raye as OC: Redskins finished 27th out of 31 teams in total offense but that is pretty respectable when you factor in that Tony Banks was the teams starting QB and the team's WR's were a bust in Michael Westbrook (actually had a respectable year that year and the 2nd best single season of his NFL career), a rookie Rod Gardner (turned out to be his best NFL season) and at tight end they had something called Zeron Flemister. At running back? Stephen Davis had the best single season of his NFL career that year as he rushed for 1,432yds and made it to the pro bowl.


My point is Jimmy Raye is not an idiot. I think people are being a little hard on the guy. I think he is handcuffed by a terrible offensive line and I think Singletary puts a lot of pressure on him not to open things up and run the football.

Can't believe I just spent 10 minutes writing to defend Jimmy Raye...
I don't think he's an idiot. Old fashion--yes, Out of date---yes, But not an idiot. You don't last as long as he has in the nfl if your an idiot. I'm just not impressed yet again with our offense. (for the 5th year in a row)
I see where you're coming from, and great analysis, but I still don't like the guy.
Originally posted by FourNine49:
I see where you're coming from, and great analysis, but I still don't like the guy.


thats fair
Also the bottom line is I seriously doubt Singletary is going to fire Raye after this season so get used to him! I do think Chris Foerester is out at O-Line coach. One option could be promoting Pete Hoener, our TE's coach to O-Line coach... Hoener has coached the O-Line in the NFL (with the Cardinals and Bears) and for several years in college. Plus look at the work he has done with Vernon Davis turning a guy who never blocked in college to the best blocking tight end in the NFL. I don't expect Sing to go out and get a big time O-Line coach because he does not have the connections and that is why he did not get a top notch OC. I do wish we hired Bill Callahan as OC than we would have killed two birds with one stone as we would have got a good OC and a terrific O-Line coach all in one.

Joe Staley- Logan Mankins- Eric Heitman (as Much I hate him, I doubt he is going anywhere)- Chilo Rachal- Trent Williams (Oklahoma) or Bryan Bulaga (Iowa) that is what I would love for our O-Line to look like and it is very possible. If Mankins does not get franchised by the Patriots and I don't think he will, I think we will be the front runner to sign him as he is from Northern California and we wanted to draft him 5 years ago and got stuck with Baas plus if you remember two years ago we went after Alan Faneca but he chose to visit the Jets first and they never let him leave without signing a contract. My point being I think McCloughan is willing to spend big money on a guard.



But I digress, back to Jimmy Raye....
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Also the bottom line is I seriously doubt Singletary is going to fire Raye after this season so get used to him! I do think Chris Foerester is out at O-Line coach. One option could be promoting Pete Hoener, our TE's coach to O-Line coach... Hoener has coached the O-Line in the NFL (with the Cardinals and Bears) and for several years in college. Plus look at the work he has done with Vernon Davis turning a guy who never blocked in college to the best blocking tight end in the NFL. I don't expect Sing to go out and get a big time O-Line coach because he does not have the connections and that is why he did not get a top notch OC. I do wish we hired Bill Callahan as OC than we would have killed two birds with one stone as we would have got a good OC and a terrific O-Line coach all in one.

Joe Staley- Logan Mankins- Eric Heitman (as Much I hate him, I doubt he is going anywhere)- Chilo Rachal- Trent Williams (Oklahoma) or Bryan Bulaga (Iowa) that is what I would love for our O-Line to look like and it is very possible. If Mankins does not get franchised by the Patriots and I don't think he will, I think we will be the front runner to sign him as he is from Northern California and we wanted to draft him 5 years ago and got stuck with Baas plus if you remember two years ago we went after Alan Faneca but he chose to visit the Jets first and they never let him leave without signing a contract. My point being I think McCloughan is willing to spend big money on a guard.



But I digress, back to Jimmy Raye....

I will not root or be impressed with any OC until we crack the top 20 in offensive production. If Raye wants my backing (which I know he doesn't care) then get us a top 20 team.
No one is saying not to run. We just want to see a run other than between the guard.
IMHO statistics from almost a decade ago aren't a very good measuring stick.

Raye isn't a good OC.
Originally posted by znk916:


LOL, I gotta find something my man, he is our OC and going to be our OC for another season at least. Im just trying to say it's not all him, IMO.
I mean those are all good points, but have you watched a game this season?

If the answer to the aforementioned question is yes, then you would know he is dogsh*t.
To me, it's his lack of creativeness.

He sticks with base package way too often and this often leads to predictable playcalls. I'm personally not asking Raye to go all spread. What I am asking is this:
1. Run out of something other than FB, 2TE sets - run out of 3WR for once.
2. Go more with 3 WR sets, but just because you do, doesn't mean you have to chuck it deep every time - send one deep, one intermediate and one short.

It's painfully obvious that we have a boom or bust running game that more often busts than anything else.

Passing game > running game.

WRs and TEs > RBs



Btw, i applaud you for taking your stand.

-9fA
This may sound weird but even though the offense didn't score in the second half, Raye should call plays like he did in the second half of the Colts game. There seems to be more passes thrown. The offense actually moved the ball well got some good throws and connection with receivers from Smith. They just couldn't finish those drives in a good way...

I didn't look at the first half. I'm sure he was more conservative in his playcall in the first.
That 2000 team had three pro bowlers on the line in John Tait(01,06), Tim Grunhard(1999) and Will Shields(95-06). Elvis Grbac(326 for 547, 4,169 yards, 28 td, 14 int, & 30 rushes for 110 yards and 1 td) and Tony G(93 catches for 1,203 yards, 9 td) went to the probowl that year too. Raye can do it but Scot needs to get him the Oline.

[ Edited by Ronnie49Lott on Nov 4, 2009 at 21:30:18 ]
Its about time somebody stood up for him.
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