There are 193 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Sing sounds rigid, but makes a lot of changes

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.

Bingo! People don't realize that. We do pass a great amount of the time. But its the plays and WHEN they are called that are the MEHS

I still disagree.

To me, the playcalling hasn't been the problem. Execution of that playcalling has been the problem.

When Chilo Rachal is beaten off the snap and Frank Gore gets drilled in the backfield of Hill/Smith is sacked before he can get set, most of the time the problem isn't the play that was called. The problem was the players not handling their responsibility.

I'm not picking on Rachal because I think he will be a good oplayer in the future, but he is just an example of what I'm saying.

If the plays that are called are run correctly and the players all handle their responsibilities, we would have a very different view of the O.

The Niners O is a work in progress. They have to get to know the O and Raye needs to get to know his players.

Sadly this is the position we've been in for the better part of a decade because we keep changing OCs. Later this year and even next year, we will have alot less complaints about the playcalling because the players will execute the plays much better and the OC will understand his players better.

Its about EXECUTION.

I get where you are coming from but when the playcalling is as predictable as the 49ers playcalling has been with Raye it gives the defense the upper hand. Raye runs on 1rst down some crazy insane % of time. I believe it was in the high 80percentile. So that screws you over right there on first down right off of the bat. Then on 2nd down it might get a little better, I would say about 50/50 run/pass. usually the run is right up the gut for no to little yardage leaving you with 3rd and long. Obvious passing down, and again giving the defense the upperhand. This is why playcalling is important. When your offense loses the advantage to the defense because the playcalling is as predictable as ours has been you pretty much get screwed and left with 3rd and long.
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.

Bingo! People don't realize that. We do pass a great amount of the time. But its the plays and WHEN they are called that are the MEHS

I still disagree.

To me, the playcalling hasn't been the problem. Execution of that playcalling has been the problem.

When Chilo Rachal is beaten off the snap and Frank Gore gets drilled in the backfield of Hill/Smith is sacked before he can get set, most of the time the problem isn't the play that was called. The problem was the players not handling their responsibility.

I'm not picking on Rachal because I think he will be a good oplayer in the future, but he is just an example of what I'm saying.

If the plays that are called are run correctly and the players all handle their responsibilities, we would have a very different view of the O.

The Niners O is a work in progress. They have to get to know the O and Raye needs to get to know his players.

Sadly this is the position we've been in for the better part of a decade because we keep changing OCs. Later this year and even next year, we will have alot less complaints about the playcalling because the players will execute the plays much better and the OC will understand his players better.

Its about EXECUTION.

I get where you are coming from but when the playcalling is as predictable as the 49ers playcalling has been with Raye it gives the defense the upper hand. Raye runs on 1rst down some crazy insane % of time. I believe it was in the high 80percentile. So that screws you over right there on first down right off of the bat. Then on 2nd down it might get a little better, I would say about 50/50 run/pass. usually the run is right up the gut for no to little yardage leaving you with 3rd and long. Obvious passing down, and again giving the defense the upperhand. This is why playcalling is important. When your offense loses the advantage to the defense because the playcalling is as predictable as ours has been you pretty much get screwed and left with 3rd and long.

Again...thats not correct. People think the Niners run on first down ALOT more than they actually do.

In this past game, they threw more on 1st down than they ran.

The reason poeple think the Niners run too much is because its not working. Outside of three long runs, they are averaging about 2 yards per carry.

Additionally they Ds would just stack the box and it would kill both the run and the pass because Hill couldn't hit the deep ball or more importantly an intermediate out route.

Just keep watching...with Smith at QB this O is going to develop much more than it would have with Hill and people will see less and less reason to complain about the playcalling.

MANY of the calls that are being made right now will work much better simply because the pklayers are executing the plays better, and that includes Smith at QB stetching the field both vertically and horizontally.
Originally posted by TFSP:
About that Norris run, if he could have busted that play for 14 yrds, peolpe would be saying, " That was 1 helluva call Jimmy 'Rayray' called".

Yes you would, stop lying.

But the fact is that odds are Norris won't even break it for 6 yards.

Singletary is showing that he is great at strategy but his lack of knowledge at in-game X's and O's on the offense is hurting this team as it doesn't seem like he is questioning Raye's calls during a game.

To add, Raye is not making quick decisions either and getting the play in late. I wonder if he can't decide on the play, he just calls a run up the gut.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by TFSP:
About that Norris run, if he could have busted that play for 14 yrds, peolpe would be saying, " That was 1 helluva call Jimmy 'Rayray' called".

Yes you would, stop lying.

But the fact is that odds are Norris won't even break it for 6 yards.

Singletary is showing that he is great at strategy but his lack of knowledge at in-game X's and O's on the offense is hurting this team as it doesn't seem like he is questioning Raye's calls during a game.

To add, Raye is not making quick decisions either and getting the play in late. I wonder if he can't decide on the play, he just calls a run up the gut.


It is because his old geriatric ass can't read his scribbled hand writing
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by MLobsterbush:
My biggest fear thus far, has been his stubbornness. He says "They want to run the ball when they need to run the ball" , But why do you need to RUN the ball when you have an extremely talented WR CORE. I fear he is blinded by his own ideas. Running aint working, OBVIOUSLY. He needs to adjust to that and USE WHATS WORKING! instead of blindly supporting an old man that calls Run run pass, for his play scheme.

I hope Sing, can change this, He wont change anything unless it is his idea. If someone else debates his "FORMULA" then we are built to lose! and bring in the New OC, and in 3 years bring in the new HC...GAR!

So you are suggesting becoming 1 dimensional in the other direction? Heh.

You have to keep running or else they will always defend against the pass. Maybe the reason why we were able to have some success at passing in the first place was because they expected us to run and we caught them off guard.

Further, as MM has pointed out numerous times, the Niners have only called a run play on 1st down about 53% of the time. That is hardly the run run pass offense you speak of.

At the beginning of the season we were doing a lot of run run pass punt. But now, its true we are throwing more passes.
But we are still calling a lot of stupid plays; too many WR screens, 2nd and long runs, and even the dreaded wildcat every so often.
Also, its important to note that if your running game isn't working, why call it even 50% of the time?
Just pass 80% of the time until the other team learns to back up. Then you can go back to 50/50.
Teams are still spying out Gore before the play. You could see the Colts doing it. Especially in I-form, which we run a lot of.
Its tough to pass effectively out of I-form, because you have a fullback in the game who doesn't help much.
Plus, and this might be the biggest factor, Alex Smith does not seem comfortable throwing the ball out of I-form or "big" formations. He can't seem to feel the pressure in these formations.
In shotgun however, he does a very good job feeling the pressure and stepping up in the pocket. I don't know why that is, but he just seems more comfortable the more "spread out" everything is.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.

Bingo! People don't realize that. We do pass a great amount of the time. But its the plays and WHEN they are called that are the MEHS

I still disagree.

To me, the playcalling hasn't been the problem. Execution of that playcalling has been the problem.

When Chilo Rachal is beaten off the snap and Frank Gore gets drilled in the backfield of Hill/Smith is sacked before he can get set, most of the time the problem isn't the play that was called. The problem was the players not handling their responsibility.

I'm not picking on Rachal because I think he will be a good oplayer in the future, but he is just an example of what I'm saying.

If the plays that are called are run correctly and the players all handle their responsibilities, we would have a very different view of the O.

The Niners O is a work in progress. They have to get to know the O and Raye needs to get to know his players.

Sadly this is the position we've been in for the better part of a decade because we keep changing OCs. Later this year and even next year, we will have alot less complaints about the playcalling because the players will execute the plays much better and the OC will understand his players better.

Its about EXECUTION.

I get where you are coming from but when the playcalling is as predictable as the 49ers playcalling has been with Raye it gives the defense the upper hand. Raye runs on 1rst down some crazy insane % of time. I believe it was in the high 80percentile. So that screws you over right there on first down right off of the bat. Then on 2nd down it might get a little better, I would say about 50/50 run/pass. usually the run is right up the gut for no to little yardage leaving you with 3rd and long. Obvious passing down, and again giving the defense the upperhand. This is why playcalling is important. When your offense loses the advantage to the defense because the playcalling is as predictable as ours has been you pretty much get screwed and left with 3rd and long.

Again...thats not correct. People think the Niners run on first down ALOT more than they actually do.

In this past game, they threw more on 1st down than they ran.

The reason poeple think the Niners run too much is because its not working. Outside of three long runs, they are averaging about 2 yards per carry.

Additionally they Ds would just stack the box and it would kill both the run and the pass because Hill couldn't hit the deep ball or more importantly an intermediate out route.

Just keep watching...with Smith at QB this O is going to develop much more than it would have with Hill and people will see less and less reason to complain about the playcalling.

MANY of the calls that are being made right now will work much better simply because the pklayers are executing the plays better, and that includes Smith at QB stetching the field both vertically and horizontally.

You make a good point, but there ARE still some very questionable plays being called.

For example, we should just stop calling the WR screen. We call it way too much. They are not terrible plays, but we simply do it too much.
Second, we should NEVER call another wildcat play again. They never work and it hurts our team every time we try it. Its another down where Smith does not have an opportunity to make a play.
Third, running on 2nd or 3rd and long does not fool anybody and it almost never works. Yet again, another opportunity taken away from Smith to make a play through the air.
Fourth, we run a lot of passes out of I-form. I like Norris just as much as the next guy, but the way teams are spying our running game with him in the game, its just not working out for us. We need to stick with a single back and keep an extra receiver, Walker or Robinson on the field because they can both block and catch passes; Norris can basically only block.

They were shutting down our I-form runs, a WR screen created a fumble, the 2nd and long runs set up 3rd and longs, and the wildcat, uuuhhgg, just make it stop.

If we could have just replaced the above plays with some shotgun and single back passes, we probably would have won that game.

[ Edited by BrianGO on Nov 4, 2009 at 15:48:08 ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

Exactly the D played great vs Indy. out of the 13 runs they called only 1 was a nice run and a couple of decent ones. The OL sucks to much to run the ball alot, we need to spread it out get the passing game going then when teams back off stacking the box run the ball w/Gore.
good thread. Singletary said that he doesn't Alex Smith to do anything that the team isn't ready for, and Matt Miaocco made a good point suggesting that the 49ers are not ready to run a spread type offense because they had installed the 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense in the last offseason; If we tried to run the spread as the basis of our offense, we would quickly exhaust the plays from our 2 minute offense.

Singletary has been making some great changes which have already been stated, but because we haven't developed our spread package, I don't think we will see a great deal of spread offense this season. It's like when he said Shaun Hill is our starter until he's not our starter, and Alex Smith was a more than suitable replacement. We're running our current offense until we run a different offense, and our current offense is stinking it up, but we can't replace it with a spread offense if we don't have a spread package suitable to support it. Hopefully we will expand our playbook in that direction this offseason .
  • ptinerocket
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.

plus we always ran on first down, and end up with 3rd and long, so those are not efficient passes.