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Smith labled a "choke" QB.

Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
He's not a choke QB but he made some major "choke" throws in that last drive against the Colts.

He missed WIDE open guys twice that would have moved the chains and those were vital.

Look Smith apologists: He's playing very well but he hasn't come through yet. He probably will sooner or later but he MUST fix the accuracy issues.

I agree that he missed some throws on that last drive, but one also has to consider that his line completely fell apart at that same time. He had virtually no time to follow any kind of progression. Now, I have been critical of Alex (both QBs) in the past but I really don’t think that all falls on him. When he had any time at all, he was pretty accurate most of the game which was a pleasant surprise to me.

Since he saw the open receiver, stepped forward and made the throw, shouldn't that be enough time? His problem was he sailed it over the receivers head where one should have been an INT. He did have the time.

Look, he's going to get that straightened out, but we also have to call it like we see it and he was in prime position to win that game for us.

I am not saying that he was not to blame. I said that I agreed that he missed some throws. For that I agree, he has his share of the blame, I am just pointing out that, specifically on that last drive, the blame should be shared by the entire offense. The entire offensive unit was struggling from the line to QB to the receivers. This is something that I agree will improve with time. With more chemistry as an offensive unit they should be able to handle the pressure and better pull off the W.

I have to say that it is good to actually believe that things are going to get better.

I think he's going to be much better. Of course, he's going to have that crap egg game soon, but he's going to get much better.

What I can't understand is that we thought our running game was being clogged up due to no respect for the deep ball and a crowded box. One would think Alex spread it enough to back the defense up. Having said that, a lot of screen passes were also called and not once did we let one fly 50 yards down field. There was a lot of man coverage and some times, Sanders looked to key specifically on Gore. Man, could we have used that to our advantage.

I find it kind of funny how not but a few weeks ago, you were Alex’s biggest critic but now things have gone 180. I am not saying that as a knock, it is just funny how fickle we fans can be.

Anyway, I agree that the offense missed out on some great opportunities. Your right we were very predictable and did not take advantage of them like we could have. I am not an expert by any means but I was very surprised how little if ever the play action was run, as you said lack attempts going deep, and how little we opened things up. I guess that will come with time.

I have always fully supported whoever is starting unless they begin to suck or show little signs of NFL ability.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
He's not a choke QB but he made some major "choke" throws in that last drive against the Colts.

He missed WIDE open guys twice that would have moved the chains and those were vital.

Look Smith apologists: He's playing very well but he hasn't come through yet. He probably will sooner or later but he MUST fix the accuracy issues.

I agree that he missed some throws on that last drive, but one also has to consider that his line completely fell apart at that same time. He had virtually no time to follow any kind of progression. Now, I have been critical of Alex (both QBs) in the past but I really don’t think that all falls on him. When he had any time at all, he was pretty accurate most of the game which was a pleasant surprise to me.

Since he saw the open receiver, stepped forward and made the throw, shouldn't that be enough time? His problem was he sailed it over the receivers head where one should have been an INT. He did have the time.

Look, he's going to get that straightened out, but we also have to call it like we see it and he was in prime position to win that game for us.

I am not saying that he was not to blame. I said that I agreed that he missed some throws. For that I agree, he has his share of the blame, I am just pointing out that, specifically on that last drive, the blame should be shared by the entire offense. The entire offensive unit was struggling from the line to QB to the receivers. This is something that I agree will improve with time. With more chemistry as an offensive unit they should be able to handle the pressure and better pull off the W.

I have to say that it is good to actually believe that things are going to get better.

I think he's going to be much better. Of course, he's going to have that crap egg game soon, but he's going to get much better.

What I can't understand is that we thought our running game was being clogged up due to no respect for the deep ball and a crowded box. One would think Alex spread it enough to back the defense up. Having said that, a lot of screen passes were also called and not once did we let one fly 50 yards down field. There was a lot of man coverage and some times, Sanders looked to key specifically on Gore. Man, could we have used that to our advantage.

I find it kind of funny how not but a few weeks ago, you were Alex’s biggest critic but now things have gone 180. I am not saying that as a knock, it is just funny how fickle we fans can be.

Anyway, I agree that the offense missed out on some great opportunities. Your right we were very predictable and did not take advantage of them like we could have. I am not an expert by any means but I was very surprised how little if ever the play action was run, as you said lack attempts going deep, and how little we opened things up. I guess that will come with time.

I have always fully supported whoever is starting unless they begin to suck or show little signs of NFL ability.

you were one of the biggest Hill swingers and Smith haters in NinerTalk. And now you try to pass it off as "supporting who ever is the starter"


Oh you slay me
Originally posted by Joecool:

I have always fully supported whoever is starting unless they begin to suck or show little signs of NFL ability.

Don’t get me wrong, I never said you didn’t support him, but you were very critical of him and questioned his ability as an NFL QB, perhaps justifiably so. You and I got into a few disagreements with regards to the QB situation. You thought Hill was legit and I did not think either was worth __it. I am hopeful that both of us were wrong. Like I said, not a knock, it’s just funny how fickle we fans can be (myself included).
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:

I have always fully supported whoever is starting unless they begin to suck or show little signs of NFL ability.

Don’t get me wrong, I never said you didn’t support him, but you were very critical of him and questioned his ability as an NFL QB, perhaps justifiably so. You and I got into a few disagreements with regards to the QB situation. You thought Hill was legit and I did not think either was worth __it. I am hopeful that both of us were wrong. Like I said, not a knock, it’s just funny how fickle we fans can be (myself included).

If I can slay backontop, then my job here is complete.

I eat crow with the best of them and except for NBA talk, me being wrong is a good thing for the my team.
Originally posted by ptinerocket:
Originally posted by cestmoi:
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:


Now, here's a choke artist...



I've never seen anyone smile when they can't breathe

it's the footwork that's making her smile

A great picture and a good explanation.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:

I have always fully supported whoever is starting unless they begin to suck or show little signs of NFL ability.

Don’t get me wrong, I never said you didn’t support him, but you were very critical of him and questioned his ability as an NFL QB, perhaps justifiably so. You and I got into a few disagreements with regards to the QB situation. You thought Hill was legit and I did not think either was worth __it. I am hopeful that both of us were wrong. Like I said, not a knock, it’s just funny how fickle we fans can be (myself included).

If I can slay backontop, then my job here is complete.

I eat crow with the best of them and except for NBA talk, me being wrong is a good thing for the my team.

who said it is just your team
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by danimal:
The same completion opportunities were there in the end, that he was making earlier; but missed when it counted most. To me, that is the very definition of a choke artist.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Alex Smith has something like 30-33 starts under his belt right?(I could be wrong but not by much)
And I believe he has never ended a game on a TD pass?(I could be wrong but not by much)

In the NFL that I tune into every Sunday, that certainly does not help your cause in not being looked at as a choke artist.

Can you really blame the guy for WR's dropping passes and the OLine giving up a sack to a 3 man rush for the second week in a row?

I think the biggest problem with Alex Smith debates is when his supporters can't let go of this "blame" concept. I honestly don't think of it in those terms.

The bottom line is Alex Smith has led several TD drives in the last 2 games. And I applaud him for that. And in each of those drives he overcame collapsing pockets and dropped balls.

But in the final drives of those games, under the same conditions, he did not overcome them. So what changed in the last drive? You point out weak oline play and dropped balls.....but to me that does not suffice...because those conditions were present all game long and he overcame them, also in the final drives there were some plays where he had protection.

To me, what changed was knowledge. In all the previous drives Alex Smith knew there was plenty of game left in front of him, and that relaxed him. But once he came to the conclusion that he was down to one last final drive, then he became less accurate, more tentative and ultimately making worse decisions.

That my friend is a choke artist.
Originally posted by danimal:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by danimal:
The same completion opportunities were there in the end, that he was making earlier; but missed when it counted most. To me, that is the very definition of a choke artist.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Alex Smith has something like 30-33 starts under his belt right?(I could be wrong but not by much)
And I believe he has never ended a game on a TD pass?(I could be wrong but not by much)

In the NFL that I tune into every Sunday, that certainly does not help your cause in not being looked at as a choke artist.

Can you really blame the guy for WR's dropping passes and the OLine giving up a sack to a 3 man rush for the second week in a row?

I think the biggest problem with Alex Smith debates is when his supporters can't let go of this "blame" concept. I honestly don't think of it in those terms.

The bottom line is Alex Smith has led several TD drives in the last 2 games. And I applaud him for that. And in each of those drives he overcame collapsing pockets and dropped balls.

But in the final drives of those games, under the same conditions, he did not overcome them. So what changed in the last drive? You point out weak oline play and dropped balls.....but to me that does not suffice...because those conditions were present all game long and he overcame them, also in the final drives there were some plays where he had protection.

To me, what changed was knowledge. In all the previous drives Alex Smith knew there was plenty of game left in front of him, and that relaxed him. But once he came to the conclusion that he was down to one last final drive, then he became less accurate, more tentative and ultimately making worse decisions.

That my friend is a choke artist.

the reason why he doesn't is because he is thinking instead of reacting like he does on other drives. he is trying to make sure he doesn't make a mistake and wants to make sure the ball goes to the right WR. So he holds onto the ball and then gets sacked by a 3 man rush. Then again 5 OLineman should be able to block 3 DLineman. There are more defenders in coverage so there could be no WR open. Would you rather he force the ball somewhere and throw an INT instead?
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:


Now, here's a choke artist...



That's what I call a hell of a choke if you ask me. I like the both of these choke artists.
Originally posted by Reckless:
On First take they were discussing The Saints/Falcons game and the fact they consider Ryan's 3 picks "choke throws".

The 1st and 10 crew said there are few QB's like that in the NFL, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, and to an extent, McNabb...

Then for whatever reason they brought up Smith saying in the both games he played he had "choke throws".

I don't know about the rest of the zone, but I don't see Smith as a choke artist.

The Seattle game in '06, then the opener in '07. Plus the chance to really play a full season to show more.

Yeah he's a choke artist the same way he's a 25 year old bust with only one full season as a starter.

He hasn't the opportunity to be a bust...and he hasn't had the opportunity to be a choker.
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by Joecool:
He's not a choke QB but he made some major "choke" throws in that last drive against the Colts.

He missed WIDE open guys twice that would have moved the chains and those were vital.

Look Smith apologists: He's playing very well but he hasn't come through yet. He probably will sooner or later but he MUST fix the accuracy issues.

I agree that he missed some throws on that last drive, but one also has to consider that his line completely fell apart at that same time. He had virtually no time to follow any kind of progression. Now, I have been critical of Alex (both QBs) in the past but I really don’t think that all falls on him. When he had any time at all, he was pretty accurate most of the game which was a pleasant surprise to me.

Since he saw the open receiver, stepped forward and made the throw, shouldn't that be enough time? His problem was he sailed it over the receivers head where one should have been an INT. He did have the time.

Look, he's going to get that straightened out, but we also have to call it like we see it and he was in prime position to win that game for us.

I am not saying that he was not to blame. I said that I agreed that he missed some throws. For that I agree, he has his share of the blame, I am just pointing out that, specifically on that last drive, the blame should be shared by the entire offense. The entire offensive unit was struggling from the line to QB to the receivers. This is something that I agree will improve with time. With more chemistry as an offensive unit they should be able to handle the pressure and better pull off the W.

I have to say that it is good to actually believe that things are going to get better.

I think he's going to be much better. Of course, he's going to have that crap egg game soon, but he's going to get much better.

What I can't understand is that we thought our running game was being clogged up due to no respect for the deep ball and a crowded box. One would think Alex spread it enough to back the defense up. Having said that, a lot of screen passes were also called and not once did we let one fly 50 yards down field. There was a lot of man coverage and some times, Sanders looked to key specifically on Gore. Man, could we have used that to our advantage.

I find it kind of funny how not but a few weeks ago, you were Alex’s biggest critic but now things have gone 180. I am not saying that as a knock, it is just funny how fickle we fans can be.

Anyway, I agree that the offense missed out on some great opportunities. Your right we were very predictable and did not take advantage of them like we could have. I am not an expert by any means but I was very surprised how little if ever the play action was run, as you said lack attempts going deep, and how little we opened things up. I guess that will come with time.

I have always fully supported whoever is starting unless they begin to suck or show little signs of NFL ability.

you were one of the biggest Hill swingers and Smith haters in NinerTalk. And now you try to pass it off as "supporting who ever is the starter"


Oh you slay me

YEAH! LET'S GET HIM FELLAS
You have to seal the deal. Late game rallies that fall short = choke. Having a lead, then not scoring in the 2nd half, and losing = choke. I know it is not all on the QB, but he has to be the guy to pull the O out of those ruts.

Steve Young was seen by many as a choke asrtist until he won the Superbowl. Smith is going to have to do A LOT to prove he is not one.
Originally posted by djfullshred:
You have to seal the deal. Late game rallies that fall short = choke. Having a lead, then not scoring in the 2nd half, and losing = choke. I know it is not all on the QB, but he has to be the guy to pull the O out of those ruts.

Steve Young was seen by many as a choke asrtist until he won the Superbowl. Smith is going to have to do A LOT to prove he is not one.

Lets see, coming back from a 21 point deficit- not to shabby(still should have won)
Defense giving up a TD on a damn trick play and then couldn't get the ball back to give Smith another shot at a game winning drive-blame that on the D(still should have won)
Originally posted by danimal:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by danimal:
The same completion opportunities were there in the end, that he was making earlier; but missed when it counted most. To me, that is the very definition of a choke artist.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Alex Smith has something like 30-33 starts under his belt right?(I could be wrong but not by much)
And I believe he has never ended a game on a TD pass?(I could be wrong but not by much)

In the NFL that I tune into every Sunday, that certainly does not help your cause in not being looked at as a choke artist.

Can you really blame the guy for WR's dropping passes and the OLine giving up a sack to a 3 man rush for the second week in a row?

I think the biggest problem with Alex Smith debates is when his supporters can't let go of this "blame" concept. I honestly don't think of it in those terms.

The bottom line is Alex Smith has led several TD drives in the last 2 games. And I applaud him for that. And in each of those drives he overcame collapsing pockets and dropped balls.

But in the final drives of those games, under the same conditions, he did not overcome them. So what changed in the last drive? You point out weak oline play and dropped balls.....but to me that does not suffice...because those conditions were present all game long and he overcame them, also in the final drives there were some plays where he had protection.

To me, what changed was knowledge. In all the previous drives Alex Smith knew there was plenty of game left in front of him, and that relaxed him. But once he came to the conclusion that he was down to one last final drive, then he became less accurate, more tentative and ultimately making worse decisions.

That my friend is a choke artist.

The "biggest problem" of the Alex Smith debate has been that some have just become convinced that the kid is a bust and anyone who thought otherwise was delusional. So the over-the-top criticisms of "Alex Leaf" were a little hard to take. The guy showed good progress in year two and led a stirring drive to beat Arizona in one of the healthy three games he played the next year. Then the injury fiasco where Nolan showed his true colors and all of the sudden Smith had never been any good and didn't have any potential to be legit. In my opinion, I believe a lot of revisionist history began.

A lot of us who thought he showed progress in year 2, understood what a terrible situation he was put in under Nolan and were impressed by the character of the kid wanted to see him get another chance. We can talk about overthrows and missed opportunitys on drives but I think most are impressed by what they are seeing. I know I am. But I really believe the sniping about Smith will not end here. Some seem to be back-peddling and giving out back-handed compliments. Pretneding to be encouraged while taking every shot at the kid they can. He would have to be perfect to avoid this. He will never be perfect but I really think he is going to be a legitimate NFL quarterback and I am glad that he is getting a chance to show this with the Niners rather than some other team. At least he has silenced (for now) the ridiculous assertions that he was comparable to Ryan Leaf.
Originally posted by Canadian49er:
Originally posted by Reckless:
On First take they were discussing The Saints/Falcons game and the fact they consider Ryan's 3 picks "choke throws".

The 1st and 10 crew said there are few QB's like that in the NFL, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, and to an extent, McNabb...

Then for whatever reason they brought up Smith saying in the both games he played he had "choke throws".

I don't know about the rest of the zone, but I don't see Smith as a choke artist.

The Seattle game in '06, then the opener in '07. Plus the chance to really play a full season to show more.

Yeah he's a choke artist the same way he's a 25 year old bust with only one full season as a starter.

He hasn't the opportunity to be a bust...and he hasn't had the opportunity to be a choker.

Wow. So how many years old is that one?