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Tarell Brown will start against Indy

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:


Dude if you don't see the point I'm trying to make then your senile. He's not any good and his stats will show that. He's vulnerable now that he has been benched especially with the money he's being paid.

In his first year with the 49ers, Clements gave up 7.7 yards per pass play (stats courtesy Football Outsiders), which ranked 36th among NFL cornerbacks. In 2008, that YPP jumped up to 9.6, which ranked 75th.

It hasn't been any better in 2009. Through Week 7, San Francisco ranks 29th in Pass Defense DVOA against #1 receivers, the kind Clements usually covers. These top receivers have gained 7.8 yards per play and 91.4 yards per game (that stat is the highest in the NFL), and putting those potential defensive deficits against a Colts offense that could tear up any opponent in the league is just too risky.

I believe Clements days as a corner are over he's been benched a slap to the face don't you think? How would you like to be treated like that at work? I wouldn't feel all too happy about the situation.

I hope the 49ers will determine whether his play over the final half of the season warrants that kind of financial commitment. (If the 49ers parted ways with him, he'd count $5 million against he cap, so next year would be the first time they could save cap space by releasing him.) That money obviously can't be used for someone worth the money which he is not.

I'm gonna debunk this s**t once again. I decided to get a membership at footballoutsiders just to prove how wrong you truly are.

First off, lets start with the DOVA BS:
Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

Result: statistical fail. DOVA is a real great indicator of CB play isn't it.

When you take into account Clements play against the run, in 2007, he ranked the #8 overall CB on footballoutsiders.com

In 2008, he was ranked as the #37 CB overall.

Funny how the stupid article you keep quoting, left out how he fares in run support because it would make Nate look better than he's actually being portrayed.

-9fA
[ Edited by 9erfanAUS on Oct 31, 2009 at 3:47 PM ]
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
You just show yourself in the foot on this one. 1st of all we don't play Clements to play against the run I believe we have Lineman and Linebackers for that, his job is to cover the WR and the #1 which he can't cause he is the worst in the NFL in 2009 according to the stats previously posted. 2 in 2008 he was ranked as the #37 CB overall? You serious with the money he is being paid? No wonder he's been benched for Tarell Brown. What do you think he is going to be ranked in 2009? It's not going top 10 he's heading down in the 40's maybe 50's. He's heading down hill bro.

You still make no sense!



WTF are CBs supposed to do on a run play? Stand around?

The stats that you posted are absolute BS. Let me copy and paste them again so you don't miss them:

Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

DOVA is a great indicator, huh.

-9fA
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
You just show yourself in the foot on this one. 1st of all we don't play Clements to play against the run I believe we have Lineman and Linebackers for that, his job is to cover the WR and the #1 which he can't cause he is the worst in the NFL in 2009 according to the stats previously posted. 2 in 2008 he was ranked as the #37 CB overall? You serious with the money he is being paid? No wonder he's been benched for Tarell Brown. What do you think he is going to be ranked in 2009? It's not going top 10 he's heading down in the 40's maybe 50's. He's heading down hill bro.

You still make no sense!



WTF are CBs supposed to do on a run play? Stand around?

The stats that you posted are absolute BS. Let me copy and paste them again so you don't miss them:

Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

DOVA is a great indicator, huh.

-9fA

The way you describe Clements is a great Safety not Corner bro that's all I'm saying.

Well actually if you really and closely look at the Dova stats against #1 receivers which usually Bailey and Nnmandi cover you will see the difference between corners don't just look at the ranks.

Clements against #1 top receivers have gained 7.8 yards per play and 91.4 yards per game (that stat is the highest in the NFL). Almost 100 yrds a game that's a killer.

Champ Bailey against #1 top receiver have gained 6.3 per pay but only 56.9 yards a game.

Nnamdi Asomohoa against #1 top receivers have gained 6.2 per play but only 48.1 yards a game.

Darell Revis against #1 top receivers have gained 7.2 per play but only 45.6 per game.

The titans #1 CB I don't know who it is anymore since Fineran has been hurt but he against #1 receivers is 9.1 per play but only gives up 87.7 which would explain there record with that kind of CB play.

Gotta factor all those issues not just rank per play.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
You just show yourself in the foot on this one. 1st of all we don't play Clements to play against the run I believe we have Lineman and Linebackers for that, his job is to cover the WR and the #1 which he can't cause he is the worst in the NFL in 2009 according to the stats previously posted. 2 in 2008 he was ranked as the #37 CB overall? You serious with the money he is being paid? No wonder he's been benched for Tarell Brown. What do you think he is going to be ranked in 2009? It's not going top 10 he's heading down in the 40's maybe 50's. He's heading down hill bro.

You still make no sense!



WTF are CBs supposed to do on a run play? Stand around?

The stats that you posted are absolute BS. Let me copy and paste them again so you don't miss them:

Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

DOVA is a great indicator, huh.

-9fA

I actually have to AGREE with 9erfanAUS here. Talk to me about Clements once we get a consistent pass-rush.

ESPECIALLY given our questionable, inconsistent pass-rush has been here as long as Clements has been a 49ers. The conversation would be moot if the we would fix issues with the pass-rush and could bring heat with 4 players on 3rd down vs a blitz.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Oct 31, 2009 at 3:48 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
You just show yourself in the foot on this one. 1st of all we don't play Clements to play against the run I believe we have Lineman and Linebackers for that, his job is to cover the WR and the #1 which he can't cause he is the worst in the NFL in 2009 according to the stats previously posted. 2 in 2008 he was ranked as the #37 CB overall? You serious with the money he is being paid? No wonder he's been benched for Tarell Brown. What do you think he is going to be ranked in 2009? It's not going top 10 he's heading down in the 40's maybe 50's. He's heading down hill bro.

You still make no sense!



WTF are CBs supposed to do on a run play? Stand around?

The stats that you posted are absolute BS. Let me copy and paste them again so you don't miss them:

Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

DOVA is a great indicator, huh.

-9fA

I actually have to AGREE with 9erfanAUS here. Talk to me about Clements once we get a consistent pass-rush.

ESPECIALLY given our questionable, inconsistent pass-rush has been here as long as Clements has been a 49ers. The conversation would be moot if the we would fix issues with the pass-rush and could bring heat with 4 players on 3rd down vs a blitz.

Yup, agreed
Damn...I wish the team was run by some of the guys here in Niner Talk...Just imagine: we'd still have Sheets, Clements would be at Safety, Nate Davis would be throwing like 450 yards a game with Martz calling all the plays, and we'd like be going for our 7th title this year! ...shucks...
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
You just show yourself in the foot on this one. 1st of all we don't play Clements to play against the run I believe we have Lineman and Linebackers for that, his job is to cover the WR and the #1 which he can't cause he is the worst in the NFL in 2009 according to the stats previously posted. 2 in 2008 he was ranked as the #37 CB overall? You serious with the money he is being paid? No wonder he's been benched for Tarell Brown. What do you think he is going to be ranked in 2009? It's not going top 10 he's heading down in the 40's maybe 50's. He's heading down hill bro.

You still make no sense!



WTF are CBs supposed to do on a run play? Stand around?

The stats that you posted are absolute BS. Let me copy and paste them again so you don't miss them:

Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

DOVA is a great indicator, huh.

-9fA

The way you describe Clements is a great Safety not Corner bro that's all I'm saying.

Well actually if you really and closely look at the Dova stats against #1 receivers which usually Bailey and Nnmandi cover you will see the difference between corners don't just look at the ranks.

Clements against #1 top receivers have gained 7.8 yards per play and 91.4 yards per game (that stat is the highest in the NFL). Almost 100 yrds a game that's a killer.

Champ Bailey against #1 top receiver have gained 6.3 per pay but only 56.9 yards a game.

Nnamdi Asomohoa against #1 top receivers have gained 6.2 per play but only 48.1 yards a game.

Darell Revis against #1 top receivers have gained 7.2 per play but only 45.6 per game.

The titans #1 CB I don't know who it is anymore since Fineran has been hurt but he against #1 receivers is 9.1 per play but only gives up 87.7 which would explain there record with that kind of CB play.

Gotta factor all those issues not just rank per play.


I think i should clarify me position on Clements, yes i do think that Clements isn't the lockdown corner that we all thought he'd be. He's not going to see the whole $80M, he's not even going to see anything close.

But do you see where i was going with the DOVA stats? I have a strong feeling that those stats are just portrayed wrong.

I have a hard time believing that Clements personally gives up 92 yards/game to #1 WRs. I really do.

-9fA
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
You just show yourself in the foot on this one. 1st of all we don't play Clements to play against the run I believe we have Lineman and Linebackers for that, his job is to cover the WR and the #1 which he can't cause he is the worst in the NFL in 2009 according to the stats previously posted. 2 in 2008 he was ranked as the #37 CB overall? You serious with the money he is being paid? No wonder he's been benched for Tarell Brown. What do you think he is going to be ranked in 2009? It's not going top 10 he's heading down in the 40's maybe 50's. He's heading down hill bro.

You still make no sense!



WTF are CBs supposed to do on a run play? Stand around?

The stats that you posted are absolute BS. Let me copy and paste them again so you don't miss them:

Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

DOVA is a great indicator, huh.

-9fA

The way you describe Clements is a great Safety not Corner bro that's all I'm saying.

Well actually if you really and closely look at the Dova stats against #1 receivers which usually Bailey and Nnmandi cover you will see the difference between corners don't just look at the ranks.

Clements against #1 top receivers have gained 7.8 yards per play and 91.4 yards per game (that stat is the highest in the NFL). Almost 100 yrds a game that's a killer.

Champ Bailey against #1 top receiver have gained 6.3 per pay but only 56.9 yards a game.

Nnamdi Asomohoa against #1 top receivers have gained 6.2 per play but only 48.1 yards a game.

Darell Revis against #1 top receivers have gained 7.2 per play but only 45.6 per game.

The titans #1 CB I don't know who it is anymore since Fineran has been hurt but he against #1 receivers is 9.1 per play but only gives up 87.7 which would explain there record with that kind of CB play.

Gotta factor all those issues not just rank per play.


I think i should clarify me position on Clements, yes i do think that Clements isn't the lockdown corner that we all thought he'd be. He's not going to see the whole $80M, he's not even going to see anything close.

But do you see where i was going with the DOVA stats? I have a strong feeling that those stats are just portrayed wrong.

I have a hard time believing that Clements personally gives up 92 yards/game to #1 WRs. I really do.

-9fA

Someone stated he is still owed $47 million? Do you believe he should be payed that? I sure don't bro I hope we restructure his contract or cut him. Especially if Brown is going to start now for him. He's vulnerable.

200 yards for Roddy White bro that's a whole chunk because that's his responsibility wouldn't you agree?

Look at the overall Dova stats not just rank per play.
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
You just show yourself in the foot on this one. 1st of all we don't play Clements to play against the run I believe we have Lineman and Linebackers for that, his job is to cover the WR and the #1 which he can't cause he is the worst in the NFL in 2009 according to the stats previously posted. 2 in 2008 he was ranked as the #37 CB overall? You serious with the money he is being paid? No wonder he's been benched for Tarell Brown. What do you think he is going to be ranked in 2009? It's not going top 10 he's heading down in the 40's maybe 50's. He's heading down hill bro.

You still make no sense!



WTF are CBs supposed to do on a run play? Stand around?

The stats that you posted are absolute BS. Let me copy and paste them again so you don't miss them:

Oakland is ranked #20 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know the kind that Asmougha covers. Guess he's not any good as a CB.

Denver is ranked #25 in pass defense DOVA against #1 WRs. You know, the kind that Bailey usually covers. Guess he's a crappy CB as well.

DOVA is a great indicator, huh.

-9fA

The way you describe Clements is a great Safety not Corner bro that's all I'm saying.

Well actually if you really and closely look at the Dova stats against #1 receivers which usually Bailey and Nnmandi cover you will see the difference between corners don't just look at the ranks.

Clements against #1 top receivers have gained 7.8 yards per play and 91.4 yards per game (that stat is the highest in the NFL). Almost 100 yrds a game that's a killer.

Champ Bailey against #1 top receiver have gained 6.3 per pay but only 56.9 yards a game.

Nnamdi Asomohoa against #1 top receivers have gained 6.2 per play but only 48.1 yards a game.

Darell Revis against #1 top receivers have gained 7.2 per play but only 45.6 per game.

The titans #1 CB I don't know who it is anymore since Fineran has been hurt but he against #1 receivers is 9.1 per play but only gives up 87.7 which would explain there record with that kind of CB play.

Gotta factor all those issues not just rank per play.


I think i should clarify me position on Clements, yes i do think that Clements isn't the lockdown corner that we all thought he'd be. He's not going to see the whole $80M, he's not even going to see anything close.

But do you see where i was going with the DOVA stats? I have a strong feeling that those stats are just portrayed wrong.

I have a hard time believing that Clements personally gives up 92 yards/game to #1 WRs. I really do.

-9fA

Someone stated he is still owed $47 million? Do you believe he should be payed that? I sure don't bro I hope we restructure his contract or cut him. Especially if Brown is going to start now for him. He's vulnerable.

200 yards for Roddy White bro that's a whole chunk because that's his responsibility wouldn't you agree?

Look at the overall Dova stats not just rank per play.

4 years 33 mil left
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2009/49ers-bench-clements
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Someone stated he is still owed $47 million? Do you believe he should be payed that? I sure don't bro I hope we restructure his contract or cut him. Especially if Brown is going to start now for him. He's vulnerable.

200 yards for Roddy White bro that's a whole chunk because that's his responsibility wouldn't you agree?

Look at the overall Dova stats not just rank per play.

AB83, the WZ cap guru claims that he will only see $47M of the $80M contract. I have a lot of respect for AB, so i'll take his word for it.

If Brown does outplay Clements this second half of the season, then i have no problems with Clements re-structuring his contract or what have you.

I addressed Roddy White before as well. Clements went for the ball knowing he had safety help. Roman was too slow to come over and the flack falls on Clements. IMO, we wouldn't be talking about this if Clements did the same thing in the red zone and Roddy only got 10 yards from the play....

On the other White touchdown, Goldson was too late to pick him up as White was running a post. The defense was in a zone.

That's about 140 yards that i've accounted for there.

-9fA
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Someone stated he is still owed $47 million? Do you believe he should be payed that? I sure don't bro I hope we restructure his contract or cut him. Especially if Brown is going to start now for him. He's vulnerable.

200 yards for Roddy White bro that's a whole chunk because that's his responsibility wouldn't you agree?

Look at the overall Dova stats not just rank per play.

AB83, the WZ cap guru claims that he will only see $47M of the $80M contract. I have a lot of respect for AB, so i'll take his word for it.

If Brown does outplay Clements this second half of the season, then i have no problems with Clements re-structuring his contract or what have you.

I addressed Roddy White before as well. Clements went for the ball knowing he had safety help. Roman was too slow to come over and the flack falls on Clements. IMO, we wouldn't be talking about this if Clements did the same thing in the red zone and Roddy only got 10 yards from the play....

On the other White touchdown, Goldson was too late to pick him up as White was running a post. The defense was in a zone.

That's about 140 yards that i've accounted for there.

-9fA

Yes that is all I'm saying why would coach singletary favor Brown over Clements? Don't tell me is a strategy move because that is BS and you know it. He should be able to cover whoever. I wouldn't be surprised if he does not get his spot back would you? I've been saying since last year he should be moved to FS.

140 yards is still a lot bro about 100 yards a game I think it's pretty accurate.
this is a demotion point blank & not strategy. true number 1 cb's aren't moved to play da nickel this is very disappointing imo he's not a bad player at all just nowhere near to what he was hyped up to be but the front office didn't do due diligence if you pay dat much he has to be a complete stud & not just a good player
they should move clements to strong safety.
Originally posted by Super5:
Ready for playing time:Tarell Brown

confirmed that he will start at left cornerback in "all alignments" Sunday in Indianapolis at the expense of Clements,the incumbent.Clements will probably shift inside to a slot position when the 49ers are in their nickel defense,which figures to be most of the time against Peyton Manning and the leaugue's No.1-ranked passing offense.



-Sf Chronicle
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by mississippi_sam:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by susweel:
Clements is on the way out. I called this as soon Brown was given the extension.

I called the Rossum release and now this. You people really need to start listening to what I say because it usually comes true. Im like the Nostradamus of the webzone. haha


http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=132413&highlight=susweel

Lol, Clements is not on the way out, he's had some very good games, only bad game he had was against ATL, and a bad play or two against the Vikings.

This is more of a strategic move than anything else.

When you have to demoted your 80 million dollar CB as "defensive strategy" then that means there is serious problem.

Wow! All I can say is wow!



Yes, a serious problem indeed. When you make a guy the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game, you expect him to play every down, every game. If he doesn't match up as well as Brown, then Clements hasn't lived up to expectations as a stud CB.

I love Clements's physical style of play. I think he's had a couple of underachieving performances this year, mainly the Falcons game.

I am shocked by this turn of events. I would have been far less surprised if he started opposite Clements in place of Spencer, but this has me floored. Wow.

Oh well. I'd like to see Clements try some punt and kick returns if he's not gonna start.


In place of Spencer would've been a bigger surprise IMO. Spencer has been our best cover CB this season, easily out playing Clements week in and out. Spencer has played really well this year and I doubt anyone was expecting it.

Except for Singletary,
it turned out to be an excellent move.Spencer has played great this season,
I love Nate, but even the greatest DBs knew when it was time to move to safety

Ronnie
Rod Woodson

Nate would make a nasty safety. Assuming that this demotion is a harbinger. Hey, we need some help at safety don't we since Lewis is done (I don't care what the docs say, he's done. In fact, he'll prolly get another concussion this week -- don't get me wrong I've appreciated Lewis and his play but those chronic, serial concussions are nasty). If the 9ers have decided its Brown's time, I want to see Nate become the next ball - hawking, jaw rocking 49er safety.

Fuller was CB coming into the league. So was Hanks. Not the same, I know. But still. Some CBs don't have a safety mentality, Nate does.