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MM-49ers didn't run spread offense more with Smith

Originally posted by WillistheWall:
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/10/player-review-with-a-little-bit-of-myth-busting.html

Interesting. It's amazing how much more the field is spread when you have a QB who can throw the ball, and that that doesn't mean we ran a different offense.

Well duh!
I really like the way the offense looked in the 2nd half & I don't care what formation we do as long as we move the ball!
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/10/player-review-with-a-little-bit-of-myth-busting.html

Interesting. It's amazing how much more the field is spread when you have a QB who can throw the ball, and that that doesn't mean we ran a different offense.

Fine, it wasn't a "spread" offense.

But we did THROW the football a higher percentage of the time.

Smith, and even Hill, always seem to march down the field and score points, when we throw the ball a lot.

It seems to get our quarterback and O-line into a rhythm.

Smith came from a passing offense in college. Shotgun, spread, whatever, it doesn't matter as much.

But constantly throwing the football gets the quarterback into a rhythm, gives big chunks of yards, and just as importantly, get the defense to back up from the line of scrimmage so we can finally have an effective running game again.

Despite all of this being said and known for years, I will not be surprised at all if we start off the Colts game by running running running.

Then, people will post about how Smith still sucks etc.

If we had coach Erickson, running our offense, we would have a far more effective offense.

People were really low on him, but the poor guy had ZERO talent to work with at the time.

Now, the only time we pass the ball a lot is when we are down and NEED to score points.

It is truly unbelievable.

Why do people post like this? Are they afraid of using a sentence format?

I think each sentence is it's own paragraph, with a dramatic pause in-between.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Fine, it wasn't a "spread" offense.

But we did THROW the football a higher percentage of the time.

We did? A higher percentage of the time compared to what games? In the Atlanta game we had more attempts, as a percentage of all plays and a whole, than we did in Houston.

Originally posted by BrianGO:
Smith, and even Hill, always seem to march down the field and score points, when we throw the ball a lot.

It may seem like that but it's not true. And when it is true we're throwing the ball more because we're behind and trying to catch up.
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
I will have to rewatch the game but i dont recall Hill having any 3 wr sets. Also Alex saw atleast one 5 WR set.

lol...there werent even 5 WR active for the game

Watch the tape, and when VD was lined up in the slot I suppose that wasnt a 3 wr set? When you put someone out wide its a WR regardless of their position.

the 49ers could line up 2 TEs, 2 RB's and a tackle out wide, but I wouldnt call it a 5wr set...
Niners need to start the game as if they're behind in points and throw the ball downfield. If they could score 2-3 TDs in the first half, then maybe they could play a more balanced to run-heavy offense in the second half...instead of the other way around. The Colts' offense is better than our defense, so we need to open this game up from the beginning and make it an air show for medium to long passes just to stay in the game.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by dj43:
Bill Walsh used to say that "the trouble with a run-first offense was that you could hold the ball for 15 plays over 10 minutes and wind up kicking a 27 yard field goal, if you didn't fumble it first. Then the other team would get the ball, throw if six times and score a touchdown in three minutes. You do that a couple of times and now you must throw the ball just to try to catch up."

Run-first didn't make sense to Walsh back then, and it doesn't make sense now either. Plus, the league has changed many rules to favor a strong passer because that is more exciting to fans.

"All hail, King Smith. Long live the king."


The 49ers will enter Sunday's game in Indianapolis with two new wrinkles on offense - Michael Crabtree and Alex Smith. Still, both Freeney and coach Jim Caldwell said their first priority would be stopping Frank Gore. In other words, neither expects the 49ers to suddenly become a pass-happy team. "I think the main thing is to stop the run, and that's important," Freeney said. "Once you do that, you get them into do doing some things they don't want to do every down."Link

This is what every defensive coordinator in the league thinks. Stop the run first.
Smith had success because he got into a throwing rhythm. The Colts are going to try and stop Frank, just like every other team in the league.

If Smith is the answer for this team, then we sure as heck better give him an opportunity to show it in his first start. If he is not the answer, then I guess it doesn't really matter either way; but we won't know unless we give him a chance within an up-tempo offense.
Your last paragraph is the key. The most important thing the 49ers have to do this year is to determine if Smith can be the guy. I don't expect them to win on Sunday but it will be important to see how Smith does, and how the 49ers game plan the offense to give him a chance to show what he can do.

As we have all discussed, nothing could be better for Frank Gore than for the Colts to be forced to defend the middle and deep zones against the legit threat of a pass. Therefore, if I were Jimmy Raye, I would start off with a play action pass to Vernon Davis down the middle of the defense and behind the LBs. Force Indy to respect the pass and THEN Gore can run.
MM is wrong.
His argument is that we often used two backs and a TE and not necessarily three or four WRs each time.

However the spread can still be run with backs and TE, for example Texas Tech and OU (a couple extreme examples of the pass first spread) often run 2-backs and a TE with their WRs, however they send them out on pass routes .. that is STILL THE SPREAD.

Personnel doesn't decide whether you are running the spread, it's the routes and how they line up in the formation.
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
I will have to rewatch the game but i dont recall Hill having any 3 wr sets. Also Alex saw atleast one 5 WR set.

lol...there werent even 5 WR active for the game

Watch the tape, and when VD was lined up in the slot I suppose that wasnt a 3 wr set? When you put someone out wide its a WR regardless of their position.

the 49ers could line up 2 TEs, 2 RB's and a tackle out wide, but I wouldnt call it a 5wr set...

Well when you line them up wide (at WR) thats exactly what it is.
  • JC49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 169
It would have been nice to think that the coaching staff made a successful adjustment to the offense. Singletary did at least make the big switch of going to Alex. Not very hard to do down 21-0. A little tougher to make it permanent but how do you not when the offense came to life. This is good news in that if the only change was putting Smith in than that alone made us better and gives us reason to expect to be this Sunday. We'll need to be a lot better on both sides. If Goldson taking over play calling duties eliminates the defensive mistakes I really think more first downs for us on offense could make a huge difference in all aspects of our game.
Originally posted by cestmoi:
MM is wrong.
His argument is that we often used two backs and a TE and not necessarily three or four WRs each time.

However the spread can still be run with backs and TE, for example Texas Tech and OU (a couple extreme examples of the pass first spread) often run 2-backs and a TE with their WRs, however they send them out on pass routes .. that is STILL THE SPREAD.

Personnel doesn't decide whether you are running the spread, it's the routes and how they line up in the formation.

Agreed.

-9fA
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
I will have to rewatch the game but i dont recall Hill having any 3 wr sets. Also Alex saw atleast one 5 WR set.

lol...there werent even 5 WR active for the game

Watch the tape, and when VD was lined up in the slot I suppose that wasnt a 3 wr set? When you put someone out wide its a WR regardless of their position.

the 49ers could line up 2 TEs, 2 RB's and a tackle out wide, but I wouldnt call it a 5wr set...

Well when you line them up wide (at WR) thats exactly what it is.

So if a TE motions out he is no longer a TE, hmm interesting. Wasn't aware that would make them a WR
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
I will have to rewatch the game but i dont recall Hill having any 3 wr sets. Also Alex saw atleast one 5 WR set.

lol...there werent even 5 WR active for the game

Watch the tape, and when VD was lined up in the slot I suppose that wasnt a 3 wr set? When you put someone out wide its a WR regardless of their position.

the 49ers could line up 2 TEs, 2 RB's and a tackle out wide, but I wouldnt call it a 5wr set...

Well when you line them up wide (at WR) thats exactly what it is.

So if a TE motions out he is no longer a TE, hmm interesting. Wasn't aware that would make them a WR

We have athletic pass catching TE's. We spread them out LIKE WR's.

We did everything a 5 WR set does, except the official position Walker and Davis play is "TE."

How would you prefer we call it? The "three WR, put your WR-like TE's out in the slot formation"?
My definition of a spread offense, when you leave Gore all alone in the back field. At the snap, he hangs for a second to see if there's a blitzer, then he goes out for a pass if there's none. V. Davis can stayin to block or go run a route.

You can still run the ball with Gore at the snap but the run options are limited. So you basically give an indication to the D that you want to throw the ball -- but not definitive like an empty backfield with 4 wrs spread. Cause that would be foolish to do it all the time -- Mike Martz foolish, get your qb killed foolish.
The "spread" in the NFL is 4 or 5 wide with the QB in the shotgun. We only saw that once or twice on Sunday.