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run the ball control the clock...

People b***hing about Raye were just unable to accept that Raye's playcalling was limited by who we had at QB.
Pass the ball control the score board!
Isn't the "power running is outdated" thread the same as this thread?
Can't control the clock by running when you can't run the ball. Hopefully Smith will allow us to use the passing game to set up the run.
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers

See Myth #2 in Maiocco's blog post.

Try again.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers

See Myth #2 in Maiocco's blog post.

Try again.
i read his blog, he can say anything he wants, we had everyone spread out, it doesnt matter what position they were listed at.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers

See Myth #2 in Maiocco's blog post.

Try again.
i read his blog, he can say anything he wants, we had everyone spread out, it doesnt matter what position they were listed at.

Just because you spread peanut butter on toast doesn't mean you can call it the spread offense. You specifically mentioned the spread offense.

From the Wiki article on the Spread Offense:

Quote:
The spread offense begins with a no-huddle approach with the quarterback in the shotgun formation much of the time. The fundamental nature of the spread offense involves spreading the field horizontally using 3, 4, and even 5-receiver sets (some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen). The object of the spread offense is to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game to exploit, as the defense is forced to spread itself thin across the field (a "horizontal stretch") to cover everyone.

Yeah, try again.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by insanemike27:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by insanemike27:
Is a load of crap. That is a losing formula, now that we all know since we all had to witness it this year. It works well for a few weeks until the defense starts to grind down and lose it's breaks and that's when the whole team seems to start to fall apart.

Here is my philosophy. It's a pass to set up the run type of scheme so here me out.

When the offense gains possession of the ball, they start by spreading the defense out. The offense can either run the ball on first down or pass the ball on first down, mix it up. This will make the defense play more honest. They will be forced to play the run or pass even though we're in a passing formation. I'm talking four wide and a running back, run the ball. the defense has to account for the 4wr set. Use this formation periodically, mixing run with pass. Set up in a three wide one tight end and a running back formation. Have a full back or tightend spread out and show pass and than motion him in for a run the first time you use it and pass the second time you use it or vice versa. the qb has to make a few shots down field while in their own territory.

The second part of this formula is when you do get deep into the opponents territory switch everything up. Go to more of a running style offense. two tightends and a running back or two running backs and a tightend. Keep with the same strategy though, mix the runs with the passes. The idea is to keep the defense off balance. Cause even if you get in to scoring position fairly quickly you can still control the clock by running more in the redzone. If you get into scoring position with a couple of big plays on two or three of your drives during the game this will put emense pressure on the opposing defense. If they are worried about giving up a twenty or thirty yard passing strike, you should be able to run all over them. But if your showing them run packages in the redzone and they start to play the run than set up a long passing strike in the end zone, make them back off and keep them on their toes. This is how you out coach a team, this is a great formula to run with the type of playmakers we have. Not to mention a qb that can run this offense with no problem.

what do the rest of you think?

I disagree with your initial premise. If you CAN run the ball effectively and control the clock, it is ABSOLUTELY a winning formula. However, we (the 49ers) cannot do that and there are many supporting elements to an effective ball-control running game.

What you need is an effective deep and intermediate ball threat. This will serve as a deterrent to defenders crowding the line of scrimmage -- not just counting men in the box. If a SS or ILB is 1 - 2 yards further away from the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped -- because he doesn't want to get beat deep by a WR or TE -- that could mean 1 - 2 extra yards on a run play (or more).

I put intermediate ball as well because there are ways to counter a team with a deep threat and a good running game: Cover 2. Cover 2 takes away the deep ball and stops the run...and dares the other team to find receivers in traffic over the middle. An offense needs a good TE or physical WRs that aren't afraid to go over the middle.

I think we have the potential for an excellent intermediate game, with two solid TEs and a #1 WR (Crabtree) who will pull in the ball over the middle, take a hit, and hold on. Brandon Jones needs to step up for the deep game to develop.

One final point -- Bill Walsh demonstrated that you do not need to have an effective running game in order to control the clock and stretch a defense vertically. A quick-hit passing game will consume clock and draw defenders towards the line of scrimmage -- intermediate routes will put them back on their heels again. Walsh also believed that you can run the score up early w/ the passing game, then run the clock out in the second half.

running the ball control the clock is for a team with an all around fantastic defense, that can do some scoring on their own. otherwise run run pass punt or run run run punt.

If you CAN run the ball every down, you should.

If you averaged 5 yards a carry with a low standard deviation from the mean carry (i.e. most runs are clustered around 5 yards -- not a lot of 10 yarders and 0 yarders), you should run until the defense makes you do otherwise.

Cleary, we cannot do that with our lack of talent at the guard positions. so, we need to start passing the ball in order to open things up for Gore. If we can get 7 men in the box w/ a 3WR/1TE single-back set (which could be our new base package), Gore will have a one-on-one situation with a linebacker. That's either a nice carry (4 - 6 yards) or a big run.

Speaking of the 3 WR, single-back set -- Crabtree (from what I've read) is a fantastic downfield blocker. If you put him in the slot on the strong side vs. an 8-man front, Gore will get one-on-one.

Only the Cowboys of the mid 90's were dominant enough to be able to do that.

You can't just run on NFL defenses. Coordinators are hell bent on stopping the run as their first priority going into any football game, except perhaps against the Colts or Saints, "stop the run" is the mantra of the league.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Oct 28, 2009 at 1:56 PM ]
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers

See Myth #2 in Maiocco's blog post.

Try again.
i read his blog, he can say anything he wants, we had everyone spread out, it doesnt matter what position they were listed at.

Just because you spread peanut butter on toast doesn't mean you can call it the spread offense. You specifically mentioned the spread offense.

From the Wiki article on the Spread Offense:

Quote:
The spread offense begins with a no-huddle approach with the quarterback in the shotgun formation much of the time. The fundamental nature of the spread offense involves spreading the field horizontally using 3, 4, and even 5-receiver sets (some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen). The object of the spread offense is to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game to exploit, as the defense is forced to spread itself thin across the field (a "horizontal stretch") to cover everyone.

Yeah, try again.

so basically just because they huddled instead of using a no huddle it wasnt a spread offense? he was in shot gun, he had multiple receivers lined up wide. just because u found it on wikipedea it must be true right? some people just like to be arrogant on this forum just to act like internet tough guys, ok, u win, have fun. i hope you feel good, bravo. yay, red rathman!!! most awesomest poster ever award goes to this guy!!!
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
The formula sounds good except that Peyton Manning, with Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne, don't need much clock to put six more on the board.

Play tough defense. Attack Peyton the way the Cardinals attacked his brother Sunday night. Sure, he may burn you on occasion but he is no better than any other QB when he is laying on his back. You have nothing to lose. If you sit back and try to cover everyone, he will pick you apart.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers

See Myth #2 in Maiocco's blog post.

Try again.
i read his blog, he can say anything he wants, we had everyone spread out, it doesnt matter what position they were listed at.

Just because you spread peanut butter on toast doesn't mean you can call it the spread offense. You specifically mentioned the spread offense.

From the Wiki article on the Spread Offense:

Quote:
The spread offense begins with a no-huddle approach with the quarterback in the shotgun formation much of the time. The fundamental nature of the spread offense involves spreading the field horizontally using 3, 4, and even 5-receiver sets (some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen). The object of the spread offense is to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game to exploit, as the defense is forced to spread itself thin across the field (a "horizontal stretch") to cover everyone.

Yeah, try again.

so basically just because they huddled instead of using a no huddle it wasnt a spread offense? he was in shot gun, he had multiple receivers lined up wide. just because u found it on wikipedea it must be true right? some people just like to be arrogant on this forum just to act like internet tough guys, ok, u win, have fun. i hope you feel good, bravo. yay, red rathman!!! most awesomest poster ever award goes to this guy!!!

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here. Honestly, I tire of fans overstepping their knowledge bubble to speak on issues they know nothing about. In this instance, the misappropriation of the term Spread Offense was thrown around on Monday after Smith's performance. To someone who has played the game of football or closely follows it for a living, it's incredibly frustrating to read.

The Spread Offense isn't just something a team does one series in a game. It's a constant throughout the game, from the first snap to the last. Lining up Running Backs and Tight Ends in the slot isn't the Spread Offense. Heck, even formations with four wide receivers isn't the the Spread Offense. The Spread Offense is an offensive theory, not a formation.

All I ask is that you educate yourself just a bit before spouting off, even on a silly fanboy internet forum.
My problem with our playcalling has been it looks like we're in goal line packages on 1st and 10 at our own 20. Motioning Morgan to block, 1 WR packages. We play jumbo football even when it's apparent that we can't run anyone over.

It's amazing that we run a bunch of 2 WR, 2 TE sets and it still looks like we're playing the spread. Maybe because it was our first glance at a real passing attack all year. If we're going to win this game we have to follow the San Diego blueprint. We're going to need a balanced attack. 25 carries 100+ yards out of Gore, 35 passes 240 yards out of the passing attack. Win the TOP battle.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers

See Myth #2 in Maiocco's blog post.

Try again.
i read his blog, he can say anything he wants, we had everyone spread out, it doesnt matter what position they were listed at.

Just because you spread peanut butter on toast doesn't mean you can call it the spread offense. You specifically mentioned the spread offense.

From the Wiki article on the Spread Offense:

Quote:
The spread offense begins with a no-huddle approach with the quarterback in the shotgun formation much of the time. The fundamental nature of the spread offense involves spreading the field horizontally using 3, 4, and even 5-receiver sets (some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen). The object of the spread offense is to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game to exploit, as the defense is forced to spread itself thin across the field (a "horizontal stretch") to cover everyone.

Yeah, try again.

so basically just because they huddled instead of using a no huddle it wasnt a spread offense? he was in shot gun, he had multiple receivers lined up wide. just because u found it on wikipedea it must be true right? some people just like to be arrogant on this forum just to act like internet tough guys, ok, u win, have fun. i hope you feel good, bravo. yay, red rathman!!! most awesomest poster ever award goes to this guy!!!

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here. Honestly, I tire of fans overstepping their knowledge bubble to speak on issues they know nothing about. In this instance, the misappropriation of the term Spread Offense was thrown around on Monday after Smith's performance. To someone who has played the game of football or closely follows it for a living, it's incredibly frustrating to read.

The Spread Offense isn't just something a team does one series in a game. It's a constant throughout the game, from the first snap to the last. Lining up Running Backs and Tight Ends in the slot isn't the Spread Offense. Heck, even formations with four wide receivers isn't the the Spread Offense. The Spread Offense is an offensive theory, not a formation.

All I ask is that you educate yourself just a bit before spouting off, even on a silly fanboy internet forum.

im no expert but the offense looked a lot like a spread to me and a lot of other people on here.
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by redrathman:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
they will spread it out, they would be retarded to ignore the spread offense after how effective it was in the last game. and if they ran in that game, they wouldve been successful because alex made them think that we can actually throw too. this colts game should be pretty exciting if they can somehow keep alex upright long enough to hit his receivers

See Myth #2 in Maiocco's blog post.

Try again.
i read his blog, he can say anything he wants, we had everyone spread out, it doesnt matter what position they were listed at.

Just because you spread peanut butter on toast doesn't mean you can call it the spread offense. You specifically mentioned the spread offense.

From the Wiki article on the Spread Offense:

Quote:
The spread offense begins with a no-huddle approach with the quarterback in the shotgun formation much of the time. The fundamental nature of the spread offense involves spreading the field horizontally using 3, 4, and even 5-receiver sets (some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen). The object of the spread offense is to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game to exploit, as the defense is forced to spread itself thin across the field (a "horizontal stretch") to cover everyone.

Yeah, try again.

so basically just because they huddled instead of using a no huddle it wasnt a spread offense? he was in shot gun, he had multiple receivers lined up wide. just because u found it on wikipedea it must be true right? some people just like to be arrogant on this forum just to act like internet tough guys, ok, u win, have fun. i hope you feel good, bravo. yay, red rathman!!! most awesomest poster ever award goes to this guy!!!

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here. Honestly, I tire of fans overstepping their knowledge bubble to speak on issues they know nothing about. In this instance, the misappropriation of the term Spread Offense was thrown around on Monday after Smith's performance. To someone who has played the game of football or closely follows it for a living, it's incredibly frustrating to read.

The Spread Offense isn't just something a team does one series in a game. It's a constant throughout the game, from the first snap to the last. Lining up Running Backs and Tight Ends in the slot isn't the Spread Offense. Heck, even formations with four wide receivers isn't the the Spread Offense. The Spread Offense is an offensive theory, not a formation.

All I ask is that you educate yourself just a bit before spouting off, even on a silly fanboy internet forum.

Brian Billick called it a "spread offense" when he was calling the game. He was an NFL coach.

Even if you did know more than him, how else would you like to refer to the offense we used in the fourth quarter?

We had receivers/TE's "spread" out over the field.

Should we call it the "wide" offense?