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O line will not give Smith time

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think smiths ability to stretch the feild and actually use the young speedy WR's we have will hide some of the lines inadequacies. the line looked like s**t in the first half against houston and in the second they looked a lot better because of smiths pocket presence, mobility and quick reads. we definitely need help on the line but they will look a lot better without 8 or 9 men in the box like teams did when Hill was back there. in the draft we must address the o-line for once and for all. not in the 1st rounds though with all the play-making talent coming out, good linemen will get pushed further back. i hope we get the best OLB available if Eric Berry isnt still on the board, then a guy like CJ Spiller or Jahvid Best with the second 1st rounder to give us a great return man, RB, WR, all purpose playmaker. round two go DT and 3rd and beyond go O-line and whatever other need they see fit to address

I would prefer to address the problem. Taking a kick returner in the first round is not addressing the problem. Taking an OT in the first round (2nd pick) and a guard in the second, with other later picks on the O line as well is addressing the problem.

this draft is full of legit O-lineman, in order to take advantage of a deep draft the harder to find positions first and get the quality guys later in the plentiful position. Heitman was a 7th rounder and he's played better than every lineman we've had that was drafted above him. many teams will be going for the firepower guys this year, i think you will see less tackles and gaurds chosen in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year than usual. i hope they sign a GOOD FA OT, a starting O-Line with 3 very young, very raw players is not a good idea. sign a Tackle, no marvel smith, jonas jennings, barry sims garbage, a legit lineman to start. look at guys like harvin, hester, chris johnson, sproles... these guys break games open in one play. just last week, battles muffed fair catch was the mistake that killed us, we gave them the ball on the 10 i believe and they scored shortly after. and Frank Gore is great but he is hurt every year and needs a change of pace back who can probably replace him if he wears out. Coffee is good, and he will get better but a guy like Spiller or Best can be put anywhere on the field and make defenses have to account for them as RB's, WR's, PR, KR. if they solidify the RT position in FA and we get a guy like this, teams will be s**tting bricks trying to cover Crabtree, VD, Morgan, Gore and Spiller/Best (or anyone like them) at any given time. thats a lot of speed.

Only problem with that is top flight OT's rarely become free agents these days. they just get franchised. Not to mention if there isn't a new CBa a lot of guys are gonna be off the free agency list. hopefully it plays out like you layed it out.

there are good OL available every year. we shouldnt even be in this mess, they let smiley go for no reason, he was a guard but he was one of the best. orlando pace became a free agent and he still looks good, there are always guys out there. i just think with our set of playmakers being as young as they are, we can round out the skill positions so our nucleus is young and a few simple tweaks to the oline should have us running like a top 10 offense or higher. ofcourse this is speculation but i think it can very easily happen

Exactly. So as soon as the draft was done and we knew we weren't going to grab OL depth, we stand pat for an entire off-season thinking a guy coming off 2 back surgeries would not only compete but start. We need to stop looking for the next home run player and just get some competent players. We do that at LB, WR and CB but continually fail to do that at OL.
  • rum53
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 762
I posted this in another thread:

Quote:
A good QB can help overcome an Olines deficiencies.

First, it is a QB's responsibility to identify the blitz and either audible out of the play, hit the hot read, or get the ball out quickly. Also, a mobile QB can take off and run if there is pressure and nobody is open.

Second, an effective passing game will help the running game because defenses will have to scheme against the pass. Teams can't bring up a 8th man in the box or they open themselves up to a big play. The offense can also spread the defense out wide which opens up running lanes in the middle of the field.

Third, offense is all about rhythm and timing. As the offense gets into a rhythm, players gain confidence. Long drives also wear opposing defenses out making the it easier on offense. Ultimately, an offense can't get into a rhythm if they keep having 3-and-outs.

Fourth, balanced offenses keep defenses guessing. When players don't know if the play is a run or pass, they tend to play with a little hesitation. This in turn gives the offense a slight advantage.

Our OLine is in a funk right now. The players are better than they are currently playing. In my opinion the fundamental issue is a lack of chemistry. I think our Oline still can build chemistry this season. Hopefully, a change at QB will help them get it together.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think smiths ability to stretch the feild and actually use the young speedy WR's we have will hide some of the lines inadequacies. the line looked like s**t in the first half against houston and in the second they looked a lot better because of smiths pocket presence, mobility and quick reads. we definitely need help on the line but they will look a lot better without 8 or 9 men in the box like teams did when Hill was back there. in the draft we must address the o-line for once and for all. not in the 1st rounds though with all the play-making talent coming out, good linemen will get pushed further back. i hope we get the best OLB available if Eric Berry isnt still on the board, then a guy like CJ Spiller or Jahvid Best with the second 1st rounder to give us a great return man, RB, WR, all purpose playmaker. round two go DT and 3rd and beyond go O-line and whatever other need they see fit to address

I would prefer to address the problem. Taking a kick returner in the first round is not addressing the problem. Taking an OT in the first round (2nd pick) and a guard in the second, with other later picks on the O line as well is addressing the problem.

this draft is full of legit O-lineman, in order to take advantage of a deep draft the harder to find positions first and get the quality guys later in the plentiful position. Heitman was a 7th rounder and he's played better than every lineman we've had that was drafted above him. many teams will be going for the firepower guys this year, i think you will see less tackles and gaurds chosen in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year than usual. i hope they sign a GOOD FA OT, a starting O-Line with 3 very young, very raw players is not a good idea. sign a Tackle, no marvel smith, jonas jennings, barry sims garbage, a legit lineman to start. look at guys like harvin, hester, chris johnson, sproles... these guys break games open in one play. just last week, battles muffed fair catch was the mistake that killed us, we gave them the ball on the 10 i believe and they scored shortly after. and Frank Gore is great but he is hurt every year and needs a change of pace back who can probably replace him if he wears out. Coffee is good, and he will get better but a guy like Spiller or Best can be put anywhere on the field and make defenses have to account for them as RB's, WR's, PR, KR. if they solidify the RT position in FA and we get a guy like this, teams will be s**tting bricks trying to cover Crabtree, VD, Morgan, Gore and Spiller/Best (or anyone like them) at any given time. thats a lot of speed.

No draft is full of legit O linemen. And whilst I acknowledge Heitmann as a legitimate late round star, how many O linemen are taken late who DONT make it?

I have had enough compromise and make-do on the O line. You may think starters will be common in the next draft, I just don't see it. The only position which remotely relates in need terms is pass rush.

Lets get the line sorted
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think smiths ability to stretch the feild and actually use the young speedy WR's we have will hide some of the lines inadequacies. the line looked like s**t in the first half against houston and in the second they looked a lot better because of smiths pocket presence, mobility and quick reads. we definitely need help on the line but they will look a lot better without 8 or 9 men in the box like teams did when Hill was back there. in the draft we must address the o-line for once and for all. not in the 1st rounds though with all the play-making talent coming out, good linemen will get pushed further back. i hope we get the best OLB available if Eric Berry isnt still on the board, then a guy like CJ Spiller or Jahvid Best with the second 1st rounder to give us a great return man, RB, WR, all purpose playmaker. round two go DT and 3rd and beyond go O-line and whatever other need they see fit to address

I would prefer to address the problem. Taking a kick returner in the first round is not addressing the problem. Taking an OT in the first round (2nd pick) and a guard in the second, with other later picks on the O line as well is addressing the problem.

this draft is full of legit O-lineman, in order to take advantage of a deep draft the harder to find positions first and get the quality guys later in the plentiful position. Heitman was a 7th rounder and he's played better than every lineman we've had that was drafted above him. many teams will be going for the firepower guys this year, i think you will see less tackles and gaurds chosen in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year than usual. i hope they sign a GOOD FA OT, a starting O-Line with 3 very young, very raw players is not a good idea. sign a Tackle, no marvel smith, jonas jennings, barry sims garbage, a legit lineman to start. look at guys like harvin, hester, chris johnson, sproles... these guys break games open in one play. just last week, battles muffed fair catch was the mistake that killed us, we gave them the ball on the 10 i believe and they scored shortly after. and Frank Gore is great but he is hurt every year and needs a change of pace back who can probably replace him if he wears out. Coffee is good, and he will get better but a guy like Spiller or Best can be put anywhere on the field and make defenses have to account for them as RB's, WR's, PR, KR. if they solidify the RT position in FA and we get a guy like this, teams will be s**tting bricks trying to cover Crabtree, VD, Morgan, Gore and Spiller/Best (or anyone like them) at any given time. thats a lot of speed.

No draft is full of legit O linemen. And whilst I acknowledge Heitmann as a legitimate late round star, how many O linemen are taken late who DONT make it?

I have had enough compromise and make-do on the O line. You may think starters will be common in the next draft, I just don't see it. The only position which remotely relates in need terms is pass rush.

Lets get the line sorted

how many early draft pick o-linemen have failed? kwame, gallery, baas has been a disapointment, chilo is still young and i think he will improve. good players are everywhere, the hard part is picking them. i do know this, someone posted up before the draft all the starting safeties in the league, the majority were 1st and 2nd round picks and a few 3rd rounders, after that nothing, no one of note anyway. i hope they go FA for the RT, we cant afford to waste our talent waiting for someone who may never develop. our offense has been hindered for a few years because of the weak o-line
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think smiths ability to stretch the feild and actually use the young speedy WR's we have will hide some of the lines inadequacies. the line looked like s**t in the first half against houston and in the second they looked a lot better because of smiths pocket presence, mobility and quick reads. we definitely need help on the line but they will look a lot better without 8 or 9 men in the box like teams did when Hill was back there. in the draft we must address the o-line for once and for all. not in the 1st rounds though with all the play-making talent coming out, good linemen will get pushed further back. i hope we get the best OLB available if Eric Berry isnt still on the board, then a guy like CJ Spiller or Jahvid Best with the second 1st rounder to give us a great return man, RB, WR, all purpose playmaker. round two go DT and 3rd and beyond go O-line and whatever other need they see fit to address

I would prefer to address the problem. Taking a kick returner in the first round is not addressing the problem. Taking an OT in the first round (2nd pick) and a guard in the second, with other later picks on the O line as well is addressing the problem.

this draft is full of legit O-lineman, in order to take advantage of a deep draft the harder to find positions first and get the quality guys later in the plentiful position. Heitman was a 7th rounder and he's played better than every lineman we've had that was drafted above him. many teams will be going for the firepower guys this year, i think you will see less tackles and gaurds chosen in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year than usual. i hope they sign a GOOD FA OT, a starting O-Line with 3 very young, very raw players is not a good idea. sign a Tackle, no marvel smith, jonas jennings, barry sims garbage, a legit lineman to start. look at guys like harvin, hester, chris johnson, sproles... these guys break games open in one play. just last week, battles muffed fair catch was the mistake that killed us, we gave them the ball on the 10 i believe and they scored shortly after. and Frank Gore is great but he is hurt every year and needs a change of pace back who can probably replace him if he wears out. Coffee is good, and he will get better but a guy like Spiller or Best can be put anywhere on the field and make defenses have to account for them as RB's, WR's, PR, KR. if they solidify the RT position in FA and we get a guy like this, teams will be s**tting bricks trying to cover Crabtree, VD, Morgan, Gore and Spiller/Best (or anyone like them) at any given time. thats a lot of speed.

No draft is full of legit O linemen. And whilst I acknowledge Heitmann as a legitimate late round star, how many O linemen are taken late who DONT make it?

I have had enough compromise and make-do on the O line. You may think starters will be common in the next draft, I just don't see it. The only position which remotely relates in need terms is pass rush.

Lets get the line sorted

how many early draft pick o-linemen have failed? kwame, gallery, baas has been a disapointment, chilo is still young and i think he will improve. good players are everywhere, the hard part is picking them. i do know this, someone posted up before the draft all the starting safeties in the league, the majority were 1st and 2nd round picks and a few 3rd rounders, after that nothing, no one of note anyway. i hope they go FA for the RT, we cant afford to waste our talent waiting for someone who may never develop. our offense has been hindered for a few years because of the weak o-line

We would be lucky to get the RT sorted in free agency. The guard problem, maybe. Tackle? No, don't see it.

At least we are agreed, the line is the major problem. It is just, how it is to be sorted!
Rachel starting at RG on Sunday vs the Colts

I would rather give Wragge a chance there.....or have Barry Simms play tackle and move Snyder back to RG.

I don't like this.

edit - here is the link
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/2009/10/green-dot-goes.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A

Quote:
With right tackle Tony Pashos (shoulder) out for the season, Adam Snyder will play right tackle while Chilo Rachal will play right guard. Barry Sims filled in well at right tackle against Houston, but Singletary said Sims would continue to be the primary backup at left tackle.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Oct 28, 2009 at 2:27 PM ]
  • NMNiner
  • Info N/A
I don't know if you have checked lately but next years draft does not have many top ofensive linemen, last year was the year that we should have filled that postion. There are only three projected ofensive tackles in the first round which means they will be at a premium so they will be picked up really quick. So I'm guessing our best bet is possbly free agency.
Originally posted by NMNiner:
I don't know if you have checked lately but next years draft does not have many top ofensive linemen, last year was the year that we should have filled that postion. There are only three projected ofensive tackles in the first round which means they will be at a premium so they will be picked up really quick. So I'm guessing our best bet is possbly free agency.

part of that is because of the top playmaking talent coming out i think
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Rachel starting at RG on Sunday vs the Colts

I would rather give Wragge a chance there.....or have Barry Simms play tackle and move Snyder back to RG.

I don't like this.

edit - here is the link
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/2009/10/green-dot-goes.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A

Quote:
With right tackle Tony Pashos (shoulder) out for the season, Adam Snyder will play right tackle while Chilo Rachal will play right guard. Barry Sims filled in well at right tackle against Houston, but Singletary said Sims would continue to be the primary backup at left tackle.

INSANITY

Doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
  • lvniner
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Rachel starting at RG on Sunday vs the Colts

I would rather give Wragge a chance there.....or have Barry Simms play tackle and move Snyder back to RG.

I don't like this.

edit - here is the link
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/2009/10/green-dot-goes.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A

Quote:
With right tackle Tony Pashos (shoulder) out for the season, Adam Snyder will play right tackle while Chilo Rachal will play right guard. Barry Sims filled in well at right tackle against Houston, but Singletary said Sims would continue to be the primary backup at left tackle.

Alex Smith will be running for his life after the colts blow thru Rachal and Synder.
Originally posted by NMNiner:
I don't know if you have checked lately but next years draft does not have many top ofensive linemen, last year was the year that we should have filled that postion. There are only three projected ofensive tackles in the first round which means they will be at a premium so they will be picked up really quick. So I'm guessing our best bet is possbly free agency.

Mel Kiper and Todd McShay both say this years draft will be deep in quality linemen on both sides of the ball. I guess their guess is as good as anyone elses.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
i think smiths ability to stretch the feild and actually use the young speedy WR's we have will hide some of the lines inadequacies. the line looked like s**t in the first half against houston and in the second they looked a lot better because of smiths pocket presence, mobility and quick reads. we definitely need help on the line but they will look a lot better without 8 or 9 men in the box like teams did when Hill was back there. in the draft we must address the o-line for once and for all. not in the 1st rounds though with all the play-making talent coming out, good linemen will get pushed further back. i hope we get the best OLB available if Eric Berry isnt still on the board, then a guy like CJ Spiller or Jahvid Best with the second 1st rounder to give us a great return man, RB, WR, all purpose playmaker. round two go DT and 3rd and beyond go O-line and whatever other need they see fit to address

I would prefer to address the problem. Taking a kick returner in the first round is not addressing the problem. Taking an OT in the first round (2nd pick) and a guard in the second, with other later picks on the O line as well is addressing the problem.

this draft is full of legit O-lineman, in order to take advantage of a deep draft the harder to find positions first and get the quality guys later in the plentiful position. Heitman was a 7th rounder and he's played better than every lineman we've had that was drafted above him. many teams will be going for the firepower guys this year, i think you will see less tackles and gaurds chosen in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year than usual. i hope they sign a GOOD FA OT, a starting O-Line with 3 very young, very raw players is not a good idea. sign a Tackle, no marvel smith, jonas jennings, barry sims garbage, a legit lineman to start. look at guys like harvin, hester, chris johnson, sproles... these guys break games open in one play. just last week, battles muffed fair catch was the mistake that killed us, we gave them the ball on the 10 i believe and they scored shortly after. and Frank Gore is great but he is hurt every year and needs a change of pace back who can probably replace him if he wears out. Coffee is good, and he will get better but a guy like Spiller or Best can be put anywhere on the field and make defenses have to account for them as RB's, WR's, PR, KR. if they solidify the RT position in FA and we get a guy like this, teams will be s**tting bricks trying to cover Crabtree, VD, Morgan, Gore and Spiller/Best (or anyone like them) at any given time. thats a lot of speed.

Only problem with that is top flight OT's rarely become free agents these days. they just get franchised. Not to mention if there isn't a new CBa a lot of guys are gonna be off the free agency list. hopefully it plays out like you layed it out.

there are good OL available every year. we shouldnt even be in this mess, they let smiley go for no reason, he was a guard but he was one of the best. orlando pace became a free agent and he still looks good, there are always guys out there. i just think with our set of playmakers being as young as they are, we can round out the skill positions so our nucleus is young and a few simple tweaks to the oline should have us running like a top 10 offense or higher. ofcourse this is speculation but i think it can very easily happen

Exactly. So as soon as the draft was done and we knew we weren't going to grab OL depth, we stand pat for an entire off-season thinking a guy coming off 2 back surgeries would not only compete but start. We need to stop looking for the next home run player and just get some competent players. We do that at LB, WR and CB but continually fail to do that at OL.

What is it going to take for Scot to see the importance of top shelf linemen? I'm afraid that if Alex has indeed become a better player, that he gets hurt again because Scot thought a backup RB was more important than a starting lineman. We need a proactive GM to keep our QB's from getting killed.
Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by drama:
obvisouly our o line is not that good i honestly think staley is overrated alex can be a good qb in this leage but he will need time and thats something our line hasnt done since young was with us. What we need to do is open up our check books and get some solid players so that alex can get the ball downfield. 2 first rounders next year, with our first pick in 2010 darft we will get a legit o lineman

I love Crabs, but we should have gotten Michael Oher

Disagreed. I would have been SO f**king pissed if we passed on crabtree.

agreed u gotta pick best player available and crabtree some say was the best in the entire draft.

Great, so we get to be terrible for one more year because of losing in the trenches...
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by drama:
obvisouly our o line is not that good i honestly think staley is overrated alex can be a good qb in this leage but he will need time and thats something our line hasnt done since young was with us. What we need to do is open up our check books and get some solid players so that alex can get the ball downfield. 2 first rounders next year, with our first pick in 2010 darft we will get a legit o lineman

I love Crabs, but we should have gotten Michael Oher

Disagreed. I would have been SO f**king pissed if we passed on crabtree.

agreed u gotta pick best player available and crabtree some say was the best in the entire draft.

Great, so we get to be terrible for one more year because of losing in the trenches...

yea giving up on the season is the right thing to do
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Bobbi9698:
Originally posted by drama:
obvisouly our o line is not that good i honestly think staley is overrated alex can be a good qb in this leage but he will need time and thats something our line hasnt done since young was with us. What we need to do is open up our check books and get some solid players so that alex can get the ball downfield. 2 first rounders next year, with our first pick in 2010 darft we will get a legit o lineman

I love Crabs, but we should have gotten Michael Oher

Disagreed. I would have been SO f**king pissed if we passed on crabtree.

agreed u gotta pick best player available and crabtree some say was the best in the entire draft.

Great, so we get to be terrible for one more year because of losing in the trenches...

yea giving up on the season is the right thing to do

Nobody can win if they do not control the line of scrimmage...we have a bad O-line and minimal pass rush...do you happen to think this is a winning formula?
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