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Power Running Offense is out dated and doesn't work.

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:
You do of course realize that the Niners are and have been all year more of a passing team than a running team,don't you? Look up the stats,we have passed more this year than run.
I don't get the confusion by so many fans about this,since we started out the season against the Cards by passing 58% of the plays and have continued every game to pass more than run.
Sing and Raye have said from day one that they wanted to be a well balanced attack (about 50-50) . Nothing has changed in their minds on this issue. Raye did pull the chain of the media by jokingly stating that he wanted to run 60 % of the time (he said it only once,but said many times he wanted to be 50-50,and besides,no team has run 60% of the time inthe modern era,and all observant fans knew this and laughed when Raye said his 60% joke). Raye was probably just laughing at the media because they always write that Raye and sing want to be a run,run,run,team,when they have only said from the start that they want to be well balanced and want to run when they need to run and pass when they need to pass.
Like sing said once again in his press conference yesterday,he has never wanted to be 3 yards and a cloud of dust.That has been an invention of some ignorant media types,that far too many fans have been sucked in by.

Trues. It kills me how so many fans get there panites in a wad bc Sing said he wants to run the ball. God forgive Sing for wanting to run the ball. It obviously hasn't worked bc our o-line sucks but we wtill pass more then we run so why does everyone keep bringing it up?
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by rum53:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
haven't the Steelers been considered a power running team the past few years???

The Steelers operate out of a spread offense in passing situations.

at this point yeah true, but they've been successful w/ the power run game.


a power running offense is old school style.... but it's definitely not outdated.

I use to think the same thing, but in today's modern NFL you have to be able to throw the ball better than you can run it. So it is a little outdated. Steelers and Cardinals. last years SB, both teams had prolific passing attacks. Not great running games. Things changed. Giants and Patriots, passing teams in the bowl before that. Slowly changing

I'm not saying the running game is not important. It's just over rated. Teams need it only at the end of games now days. A great offense will beat a great defense any day.
[ Edited by BETTERDAYZ9ERS on Oct 27, 2009 at 4:04 PM ]
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
haven't the Steelers been considered a power running team the past few years???

Not anymore. They won the SB with no running game last year. It was all Roethlisberger.


but they did with their 5th mainly with a power run attack.


Ravens also won it in 2000 same style.
Titans have been successful with it.

They had a better Offensive Line and Jerome Bettis in 04. Not the same team anymore. They are now a spread offense with Mendenhall coming on.

2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs are teams we will never see again. They didn't run the ball as good as you think. Those defenses will never be duplicated again. Ray Lewis would tell the offense to just score 13 points and they would never lose. He was right.


i'm thinking that what we think of when we hear "power running style" we're different things.

i'm saying a featured power running game + good passing offense to balance it out + solid defense types of teams are not outdated. run only yeah.... but like you posted earlier, that's not what we're shooting for.
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by rum53:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
haven't the Steelers been considered a power running team the past few years???

The Steelers operate out of a spread offense in passing situations.

at this point yeah true, but they've been successful w/ the power run game.


a power running offense is old school style.... but it's definitely not outdated.

I use to think the same thing, but in today's modern NFL you have to be able to throw the ball better than you can run it. So it is a little outdated. Steelers and Cardinals. last years SB, both teams had prolific passing attacks. Not great running games. Things changed. Giants and Patriots, passing teams in the bowl before that. Slowly changing

I'm not saying the rung game is not important. It's just over rated. Teams need only at the end of games now days. A great offense will beat a great defense any day.

nah.... i respect your opinion but i don't agree. my thinking is if you have the right personnel, you can run whatever offense you want as long as they execute, and the coaches call a good game.

as far as the run/pass ratio. i believe you need to be dominant at one, and you'll set up the other part of it. pass to set up the run, or run to set up the pass. as long as you're not one dimensional.
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 570
Originally posted by irief:
Offenses that concentrate on a Power Running attack just don't work. This is an out dated idea that may have worked a few decades ago, but doesn't work in today's NFL.

Just look at the best teams this season. Colts, Saints, Broncos, Steelers, Patriots, Vikings...etc. They all have good to great passing attacks. You can't just run against today's defenses at will. Today's LB's and DL's are way to fast and strong for an offense to just impose a running attack on them. Offenses need to be able to spread the defenses out to have an effective running attack. No team can run consistently against 8 and 9 in the box.

Sing needs to realize this real fast, and hopefully adjust his philosophy with Alex at the helm, other wise he will be another coaching casualty at the end of this season.

LOL...First, the Giants won the SB all of 2 years ago with a power running attack. Second, Second, the Vikings are a power running team but they also have a good passing attack. The Steelers have gotten better this year with Mendenhal giving them a power running attack. The Saints are better this year because they can run the ball. Denver has rushed 185 times and passed 194 times so they're basically balanced. The Colts and Patriots are pass first teams but they also have Manning and Brady, which the 49ers don't. Third, the 49ers have thrown it 178 times and rushed 145 times so they have not exactly been a "power rushing" team. Fourth, the 49ers ran against 8 in the box in 2006 to the tune of Gore getting almost 1700 yards.

The philosophy is fine. The execution from the OL, RB, QB and WR (probably in that order) needs to be better. Singletary's not getting fired after this year so just calm down about that.

Notwithstanding the desire to get back to the playoffs, the biggest point to this season was for the 49ers to figure out if their QB of the present and future was on the roster. It is clear that Hill is probably not that guy. He's just too limited in what he can do. Now they have to figure out if Smith can be that guy (again). They probably won't know what they have in Davis for at least a couple of years. With the 2 No. 1's in next year's draft, they have to leave this season knowing what they have at QB and whether they need to draft another 1st round QB to go forward.
Pass to get the lead, run to seal the game!
Not sure I agree But it is not working for the niners with the personel they have Im looking forward to the draft
HMMMMMMM Steelers anybody? They have always had a solid power running game, and done good. because they have always had good o-lineman.
  • dman
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,453
Outdated might be a little severe but this league is becoming more and more about speed.
  • irief
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 193
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
this thread is idiotic. you obviously dont understand the strategy.

YES power O or D is out dated. Teams have gone to more shifty fast offensive and defensive players. Meaning, players are smaller, and weaker. To expose this trend, we have build a power team. We have bigger and stronger players which will be able to MAN HANDLE other smaller teams.

A team has small, light, fast defensive linemen. We have HUGE powerful O linemen. We run it down the gut. How can you stop that?? You can't. And that's the philosophy. We aren't the only ones doing this, by the way. The chargers and ravens are the same exact way. It works. We just may not have made the most of it yet, but it will happen. I think it's a very smart idea. And I'm not making this up, I read it a while back- The philosophy Nolan had when building the team. It's a good idea.

Your post is obviously idiotic.

If you think DL players are smaller and lighter now than they used to be then you are smoking something funny. NFL players have gotten bigger and stronger at just about every position, especially in the trenches.

Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by rum53:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
haven't the Steelers been considered a power running team the past few years???

The Steelers operate out of a spread offense in passing situations.

at this point yeah true, but they've been successful w/ the power run game.


a power running offense is old school style.... but it's definitely not outdated.

I use to think the same thing, but in today's modern NFL you have to be able to throw the ball better than you can run it. So it is a little outdated. Steelers and Cardinals. last years SB, both teams had prolific passing attacks. Not great running games. Things changed. Giants and Patriots, passing teams in the bowl before that. Slowly changing

I'm not saying the rung game is not important. It's just over rated. Teams need only at the end of games now days. A great offense will beat a great defense any day.

nah.... i respect your opinion but i don't agree. my thinking is if you have the right personnel, you can run whatever offense you want as long as they execute, and the coaches call a good game.

as far as the run/pass ratio. i believe you need to be dominant at one, and you'll set up the other part of it. pass to set up the run, or run to set up the pass. as long as you're not one dimensional.

I'm telling you look at most of the top teams in the league now. They have good passing games. There is no more run the ball and play great defense teams that will win the Super Bowl. This is a passing league.

Top Rushing Teams

1 New York Jets
2 Miami Dolphins
3 New Orleans Saints
4 Dallas Cowboys
5 New York Giants
6 Tennessee Titans
7 Denver Broncos
8 Carolina Panthers
9 Cincinnati Bengals
10 Baltimore Ravens

Top Passing Teams

1 Indianapolis Colts
2 New England Patriots
3 Houston Texans
4 San Diego Chargers
5 Pittsburgh Steelers
6 New Orleans Saints
7 Arizona Cardinals
8 Baltimore Ravens
9 Dallas Cowboys
10 Green Bay Packers
11 New York Giants
12 Denver Broncos
13 Minnesota Vikings

Compare the overall record of the 2 lists. Even though I added 11-13. Running game is over rated. It's important but over rated. If Alex can be consistent we have the receivers and tight ends to have a nice passing attack. Of course a decent O-Line would help.
It works if you have....

~ An incredible offensive line (WE DON'T).

~ Can pass the ball on a consistent basis (WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO).
Originally posted by irief:
Offenses that concentrate on a Power Running attack just don't work. This is an out dated idea that may have worked a few decades ago, but doesn't work in today's NFL.

Just look at the best teams this season. Colts, Saints, Broncos, Steelers, Patriots, Vikings...etc. They all have good to great passing attacks. You can't just run against today's defenses at will. Today's LB's and DL's are way to fast and strong for an offense to just impose a running attack on them. Offenses need to be able to spread the defenses out to have an effective running attack. No team can run consistently against 8 and 9 in the box.

Sing needs to realize this real fast, and hopefully adjust his philosophy with Alex at the helm, other wise he will be another coaching casualty at the end of this season.


Basic football philosophy dictates that you continue to run until you are stopped/slowed down by the opponent. So if you cannot run the ball effectively, you have to pass to set up the run. Bill Walsh used to pass to set up the run, and it worked very well.
All this debate about power running vs passing is like the old commercial about Diet Coke. One voice says, "More taste." The other says, "Less filling." They argue back and forth. It was a successful ad campaign because if you could have both, who wouldn't take both.

A balanced attack exploiting mismatches in the D as set before the snap. That is how you gain yards and score points. This Sunday, you will watch Peyton Manning audible at the line to exploit weaknesses in our secondary coverages, and blitz packages. He is very good at it.

If your play attacks the strength of the defensive scheme, you make it harder to succeed. If your play attacks the weakness of the defensive scheme, it gets easier to succeed. Only the truly gifted and the arrogant believe that they can defeat the strength of the defense on each play.

Lastly, the score dictates what a team will do. If we are behind at half time, with 3 first downs because we run for 2 yds 54% of the time on first down, than the opposing D knows we will throw more in the second half. It makes it easier to anticipate what we will do and scheme against us.

So I say, lets go into the locker room at half time with the lead and make the other team's offense more predictable in the second half. To do that, we may have to let Alex throw out of the spread to all these talented receivers on our roster. So many talented receivers, that they all don't even get in the game!
  • TX9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,149
Any scheme works if you have a great Oline. When you don't then being able to outscheme and "trick" a DC is the only hope, which can be done with lesser players. The other thing is to have a great QB, you can overcome deficiencies in the 2 previous areas. I'm not sure we fit either of those catagories right now.