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Totally Dysfunctional Team

  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by kingairta:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by kingairta:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
The Niners are a train wreak, totally dysfunctional, their actions do not match there words. Internal fortitude, strength of character, and success comes when inner thought, action and words are all in alignment.

Let me give a few examples,

"We will be a running team and impose our will" = Words

We draft Crabtree, while passing on Oher, or Beannie Wells.= Action

We DON"T bring in any free agent O-linemen in free agency, not even for work outs.
Then we sign Jones at Wr. = Action

We let Sheets get away, Keeping only two running backs (Mrob is a not an NFL caliber RB, he is a converted QB) = Action

We keep 6-7? WR on the roaster= Action

We let Billy Bajema a blocking TE go = Action

Either we are being lied to, or Singletary is lying to himself, or mabye just maybe, ScottyM is not on the same page as Sing, either way it does not look good for our Niners going forward.

Our roster is a shambles, we need to decide who we really are, are we a tough hard nosed running team, then we need to cut Hill, Spurlock, and Ziggy becuase they will never be the blockers we need.

Are we a deep ball passing team, then we need to say good by to Battle, Bruce and Mrob.

Are we a "west coast" short passing team relying on the R.A.C., well then....

I think you get my point we need to decide who we are and taylor our roster to fit. We seem to be hedging our bets and hoping an identity will some how evolve, that way lies disaster.

Sing and Scotty need to be on the same page, come out and say what the direction is and stick with it!

One thing is certain we are not a running team.


Just my thoughts take it for what it is worth.

I think people take the running game comment a little too literally What people say is important if Sing says somthing and fails to do it his integrity is on the line, Scotty has to have his back.

Draft Crabtree (had there not been an extended holdout this would be a mute point Crabs looks like the real deal, that is not the point, it is about Action following words

What "quality" FA O-linemen were there? Hey nobody thought Smily was a quality O-linemen, except Parcells, and the point is depth and competition, not big names and fantasy football, Madden crap any way.

Let Sheets get away. Big deal a flash in the pan in preseason when thirds/fourths and experimental personell packages are being utilized. Back field pressence was horrible. Good legs do not make for a complete back. Sheets himself is not the issue going light on running backs is... when you say you are a running team, again Action backing up words.

I'll give you the over abundance of WRs Thanks I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while.

Bajema with Davis and Walker performing like they are no complaints here Sure I love the receiving threat from out TEs and Davis is a beast as a blocker, but a running team would carry 3 TEs

You want to taylor the roster. Fine but you have to work with what you got. You can't blow up the roster and assume every free agent will want to come here. You have to taylor your roster or else you will wander lost in mediocrity, that is the difference between good bad and great teams

You want a defined direction? I'll give you one. What ever it takes to win. Sure tell that to Al Davis Appearantly you missed that yesterday. did we win? I must have missed that part Would Nolan of had the guts to switch up the O to the spread offence? Of course not Nolan was a twit

Look what Bill Parcels did with focus and determination in just one season, look what we have done since the firing of Mooch with no clear mission.

Parcells succeeded were we have failed by simply not caring if he let a good player get away, if the player did not suit his vision he was gone! Great GMs have a plan and vision and fearlessly execute the plan, never worrying if they are making the right moves.

Um what success?

Taylor your personell? One off season and you want miracles? Like I said you can't blow up the roster. We blew up the roster when we fired Mooch, let Owens go, lost Garcia, and Peterson, we had to in order to get control of our cap, Nolan benefitted from this and was left with loads of picks and the largest amount of cap room in NFL history, to bad he F'ed it up!

Your worried about credibility with Mike? He's always been a straight shooter. You can continue to ignore the fact that Mike is a stand up guy and will admit when he's wrong and isn't afraid to make changes.

Mike will lose credibility if his words don't match the teams actions, here's a few reasons why,

If he and Scotty aren't on the same page players will be divided

Players can smell power, if Sing says one thing and something else happens, who has the power.

Words= Action= Credibility, Action not equal to words= weakness.

Really? I think he'd lose more credibility by being stubborn and throwing Hill out there, hoping that the run game will finally pick up. It isn't. We aren't a power running team right now. He would love for us to be, but we aren't. What Singletary wants to do more than anything though is win. So for that, he has credibility and the players' respect. He made a change last year when he put Hill in for O'Sullivan. Now this year it's Hill's turn to sit on the bench. Coaches make changes. Coaches say they want to do this or do that, but on Sundays, it's a war. Things happen and you have to adjust. We still believe in running the ball, but until we can, we won't. It's that simple. It's not as dysfunctional as you think it is.

By the way, what's wrong with drafting Crabtree? Are you saying because we're supposed to be a power running team that we shouldn't have any decent WRs? Running and passing go hand-in-hand. If we can run, we can set up the pass. If we can pass, we can set up the run.
Originally posted by BobS:
I can't believe you posted this today. I thought most had a warm fuzzy feeling after watching the Smith and Crabtree coming out party, I guess not.

I haven't been so excited watching our offensive function in forever!

To the OP -- we honestly just need a f**king offensive line. We have what seems to be a legit #1 receiver (Crabtree looked GREAT after missing 70 days), the #2 receiver (when Morgan begins to realize Crabtree is the model of a hard-working WR, he'll follow suit and stop making stupid penalties), a deep threat #3 (brandon jones just needs to get ONTO the field). We have a good RB, a GREAT TE, a strong-minded coach that sees if we aren't winning we have to change. Our defense is pretty set besides the pass rush (which is much better than I had thought it was going to be). The O-Line Shuffle should 100% be the main focus in the offseason, whether it be through the draft, trades, or free agency.

oh and we need Eric Berry
[ Edited by chico49erfan on Oct 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM ]
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by kingairta:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
The Niners are a train wreak, totally dysfunctional, their actions do not match there words. Internal fortitude, strength of character, and success comes when inner thought, action and words are all in alignment.

Let me give a few examples,

"We will be a running team and impose our will" = Words

We draft Crabtree, while passing on Oher, or Beannie Wells.= Action

We DON"T bring in any free agent O-linemen in free agency, not even for work outs.
Then we sign Jones at Wr. = Action

We let Sheets get away, Keeping only two running backs (Mrob is a not an NFL caliber RB, he is a converted QB) = Action

We keep 6-7? WR on the roaster= Action

We let Billy Bajema a blocking TE go = Action

Either we are being lied to, or Singletary is lying to himself, or mabye just maybe, ScottyM is not on the same page as Sing, either way it does not look good for our Niners going forward.

Our roster is a shambles, we need to decide who we really are, are we a tough hard nosed running team, then we need to cut Hill, Spurlock, and Ziggy becuase they will never be the blockers we need.

Are we a deep ball passing team, then we need to say good by to Battle, Bruce and Mrob.

Are we a "west coast" short passing team relying on the R.A.C., well then....

I think you get my point we need to decide who we are and taylor our roster to fit. We seem to be hedging our bets and hoping an identity will some how evolve, that way lies disaster.

Sing and Scotty need to be on the same page, come out and say what the direction is and stick with it!

One thing is certain we are not a running team.


Just my thoughts take it for what it is worth.

I think people take the running game comment a little too literally What people say is important if Sing says somthing and fails to do it his integrity is on the line, Scotty has to have his back.

Draft Crabtree (had there not been an extended holdout this would be a mute point Crabs looks like the real deal, that is not the point, it is about Action following words

What "quality" FA O-linemen were there? Hey nobody thought Smily was a quality O-linemen, except Parcells, and the point is depth and competition, not big names and fantasy football, Madden crap any way.

Let Sheets get away. Big deal a flash in the pan in preseason when thirds/fourths and experimental personell packages are being utilized. Back field pressence was horrible. Good legs do not make for a complete back. Sheets himself is not the issue going light on running backs is... when you say you are a running team, again Action backing up words.

I'll give you the over abundance of WRs Thanks I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while.

Bajema with Davis and Walker performing like they are no complaints here Sure I love the receiving threat from out TEs and Davis is a beast as a blocker, but a running team would carry 3 TEs

You want to taylor the roster. Fine but you have to work with what you got. You can't blow up the roster and assume every free agent will want to come here. You have to taylor your roster or else you will wander lost in mediocrity, that is the difference between good bad and great teams

You want a defined direction? I'll give you one. What ever it takes to win. Sure tell that to Al Davis Appearantly you missed that yesterday. did we win? I must have missed that part Would Nolan of had the guts to switch up the O to the spread offence? Of course not Nolan was a twit

Look what Bill Parcels did with focus and determination in just one season, look what we have done since the firing of Mooch with no clear mission.

Parcells succeeded were we have failed by simply not caring if he let a good player get away, if the player did not suit his vision he was gone! Great GMs have a plan and vision and fearlessly execute the plan, never worrying if they are making the right moves.

What has Parcells succeeded in? They aren't exactly a great team that is guaranteed to make the playoffs. last I saw, they have a losing record. They have just as many problems if not more than us. Parcells is so overrated.

Hey I'm not on the Tunas jock, I really don't care for the guy, but he does have vision, and if Chad was healthy it might help. My point is about integrity, and action matching words, I just feel that Scotty and Sing are not on the same page, and that will mean problems for us until they get it right.

I see your point, but I'm glad Sing is not stubborn and is willing to change the vision (benching of Hill). With Alex as the QB now, the vision is more in line with Scotty's vision. I think it's a positive direction for our future.

Sorry Golita (or Mr. Camper if you prefer), but I don't get your point. You don't think there's a vision because of a few glitches along the way? You question people's integrity? WTF?

Remember, this is Singletary's first year at HC. He's a football coach, not a miracle worker.

There have been problems with this team in the recent past. Perhaps you recall.

But compare the way A. Smith was handled when he first arrived--thrown to the wolves--to the way he was handled this time around. He was given a chance to assimilate the offense as a backup for the first 6 weeks, he was given a chance to show what he can do in a game where there was little pressure and no expectations on him. He was eased back into things, not thrown into the starter's job right off the bat.

Consider the improvements in Vernon Davis' game, and attitude, after a year under Singletary's coaching and supervision.

The roster is in shambles? What are you talking about? Seems like we may have found a QB, a No. 1 WR, and a productive TE on offense.

The OL needs to be addressed--but the HC acknowledges that and is addressing it, rather than ignoring it as used to be the case.

The D is, at a minimum, very capable and on the verge of being much more.

You're recommending what? Blowing it all up and starting over now? Its not even midseason? Seems, to me, that things are improving.

Maybe it would help if you looked at the bigger picture. This is a year for changes and improvements. Look for some success this year, but look for even bigger things next year. Patience is needed. Just my humble opinion.
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by kingairta:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by kingairta:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
The Niners are a train wreak, totally dysfunctional, their actions do not match there words. Internal fortitude, strength of character, and success comes when inner thought, action and words are all in alignment.

Let me give a few examples,

"We will be a running team and impose our will" = Words

We draft Crabtree, while passing on Oher, or Beannie Wells.= Action

We DON"T bring in any free agent O-linemen in free agency, not even for work outs.
Then we sign Jones at Wr. = Action

We let Sheets get away, Keeping only two running backs (Mrob is a not an NFL caliber RB, he is a converted QB) = Action

We keep 6-7? WR on the roaster= Action

We let Billy Bajema a blocking TE go = Action

Either we are being lied to, or Singletary is lying to himself, or mabye just maybe, ScottyM is not on the same page as Sing, either way it does not look good for our Niners going forward.

Our roster is a shambles, we need to decide who we really are, are we a tough hard nosed running team, then we need to cut Hill, Spurlock, and Ziggy becuase they will never be the blockers we need.

Are we a deep ball passing team, then we need to say good by to Battle, Bruce and Mrob.

Are we a "west coast" short passing team relying on the R.A.C., well then....

I think you get my point we need to decide who we are and taylor our roster to fit. We seem to be hedging our bets and hoping an identity will some how evolve, that way lies disaster.

Sing and Scotty need to be on the same page, come out and say what the direction is and stick with it!

One thing is certain we are not a running team.


Just my thoughts take it for what it is worth.

I think people take the running game comment a little too literally What people say is important if Sing says somthing and fails to do it his integrity is on the line, Scotty has to have his back.

Draft Crabtree (had there not been an extended holdout this would be a mute point Crabs looks like the real deal, that is not the point, it is about Action following words

What "quality" FA O-linemen were there? Hey nobody thought Smily was a quality O-linemen, except Parcells, and the point is depth and competition, not big names and fantasy football, Madden crap any way.

Let Sheets get away. Big deal a flash in the pan in preseason when thirds/fourths and experimental personell packages are being utilized. Back field pressence was horrible. Good legs do not make for a complete back. Sheets himself is not the issue going light on running backs is... when you say you are a running team, again Action backing up words.

I'll give you the over abundance of WRs Thanks I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while.

Bajema with Davis and Walker performing like they are no complaints here Sure I love the receiving threat from out TEs and Davis is a beast as a blocker, but a running team would carry 3 TEs

You want to taylor the roster. Fine but you have to work with what you got. You can't blow up the roster and assume every free agent will want to come here. You have to taylor your roster or else you will wander lost in mediocrity, that is the difference between good bad and great teams

You want a defined direction? I'll give you one. What ever it takes to win. Sure tell that to Al Davis Appearantly you missed that yesterday. did we win? I must have missed that part Would Nolan of had the guts to switch up the O to the spread offence? Of course not Nolan was a twit

Look what Bill Parcels did with focus and determination in just one season, look what we have done since the firing of Mooch with no clear mission.

Parcells succeeded were we have failed by simply not caring if he let a good player get away, if the player did not suit his vision he was gone! Great GMs have a plan and vision and fearlessly execute the plan, never worrying if they are making the right moves.

Um what success?

Taylor your personell? One off season and you want miracles? Like I said you can't blow up the roster. We blew up the roster when we fired Mooch, let Owens go, lost Garcia, and Peterson, we had to in order to get control of our cap, Nolan benefitted from this and was left with loads of picks and the largest amount of cap room in NFL history, to bad he F'ed it up!

Your worried about credibility with Mike? He's always been a straight shooter. You can continue to ignore the fact that Mike is a stand up guy and will admit when he's wrong and isn't afraid to make changes.

Mike will lose credibility if his words don't match the teams actions, here's a few reasons why,

If he and Scotty aren't on the same page players will be divided

Players can smell power, if Sing says one thing and something else happens, who has the power.

Words= Action= Credibility, Action not equal to words= weakness.

After reading some of your frustrating comments I understand what you ultimately want and that is ACCOUTABILITY!! SM and Sing do have to be on the same page and I can appreciate Sing's approach to today. He basically is changing the original philosophy of our "Smash Mouth" team and will put 3, 4, 5 WR's in there if that is what it takes and he is basically saying "We are changing our game plan after reviewing game film".

Now it didn't take a expert to see what decisions had to be made but like most said yesterday, Sing probably wanted to have Hill and Smith in his office telling them of his intention before releasing it to the media.

Our personnel fits the model of the 2nd half approach yesterday and because Crabtree finalizes this kind of mold it is silly to think we should stay with Hill and the run, run, run approach.

To me what he did today exemplified ACCOUNTABILITY......

Definition of a "Dysfunctional" Team
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by BobS:
I can't believe you posted this today. I thought most had a warm fuzzy feeling after watching the Smith and Crabtree coming out party, I guess not.

I think we're still looking for an identity and some consistency. We're not the run-through-everybody team that most fans envisioned.

That being said, i wouldn't call our team "dysfunctional"

-9fA

At least the team and the head coach aren't insane. You know the definition of insanity? Doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result.

One big difference between Sing and Nolan. If something isn't working, Sing isn't afraid to make the change right then and there.

I agree with Aussie. Maybe the Niners aren't the smash mouth running and defensive team that they started out to be. This team looked alot better and more explosive with multiple receiver sets and with Smith playing QB. If that is the NEW identity of the 49ers, so be it.

agreed
The offensive line is in flux, quarterback play has been spotty, special teams haven't been so special and we still lack a legitimate pass rusher. Of course we're dysfunctional. Singletary hasn't had much to work with but the core is there. I'd like to see a play-off run but it would require the team to over achieve above their abilities. Anything better than 7 and 9 is gravy, but if anybody can help us get there it's Singletary. Just might not be this year is all.
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
The Niners are a train wreak, totally dysfunctional, their actions do not match there words. Internal fortitude, strength of character, and success comes when inner thought, action and words are all in alignment.

Let me give a few examples,

"We will be a running team and impose our will" = Words

We draft Crabtree, while passing on Oher, or Beannie Wells.= Action

We DON"T bring in any free agent O-linemen in free agency, not even for work outs.
Then we sign Jones at Wr. = Action

We let Sheets get away, Keeping only two running backs (Mrob is a not an NFL caliber RB, he is a converted QB) = Action

We keep 6-7? WR on the roaster= Action

We let Billy Bajema a blocking TE go = Action

Either we are being lied to, or Singletary is lying to himself, or mabye just maybe, ScottyM is not on the same page as Sing, either way it does not look good for our Niners going forward.

Our roster is a shambles, we need to decide who we really are, are we a tough hard nosed running team, then we need to cut Hill, Spurlock, and Ziggy becuase they will never be the blockers we need.

Are we a deep ball passing team, then we need to say good by to Battle, Bruce and Mrob.

Are we a "west coast" short passing team relying on the R.A.C., well then....

I think you get my point we need to decide who we are and taylor our roster to fit. We seem to be hedging our bets and hoping an identity will some how evolve, that way lies disaster.

Sing and Scotty need to be on the same page, come out and say what the direction is and stick with it!

One thing is certain we are not a running team.


Just my thoughts take it for what it is worth.
I would like to see what a train wreak looks like!!!!
No this team is not totally dysfunctional. Talk about over-reacting. No, the team is just starting to find an identity. Nolan was so terrible at using and motivating players that the team doesn't even know what we have talent-wise (is Hill a solid 3-4 year solution? Is Smith a bust or legit starter?)

We are going through growing pains as we evaluate our outside backers, QB and line. This is a PROCESS. At least we're generally competitive throughout this process. We are nowhere near a championship caliber team YET. Be patient.

However, we are 3-3 with three wins over our division opponents. Though a game back in our division, 5 days before Halloween we still control our destiny (i.e., we still determine whether or not we win our division). That's the best position we've been in in years. So, we are far from dysfunctional (for truly dysfunctional teams see KC and Tampa) and even further from totally dysfunctional (see Raiders and St. Louis).
the problem is fans who need the team to have an identity, any identity before we actually earn stripes This is why I cringed in the off-season when fans were already calling the Niners a smash mouth team.

The way I see it, you better play consistently for a whole season, s**t preferably 2...before you know what you are.

This team is not dysfunctional, they are looking for an identity
  • BobS
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Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by BobS:
I can't believe you posted this today. I thought most had a warm fuzzy feeling after watching the Smith and Crabtree coming out party, I guess not.

That's funny. I feel like we just lost a second straight game.

I still have a warm fuzzy feeling, after the first half I thought this team was well on it's way to 5-11 and needed to burn one or both of those 2010 first round picks on a QB.
After the game was over I see a shot at 9-7 or 10-6, a good chance Alex maybe the answer and using the 2 picks to fix the OL and be 12-4 next year and a legitimate contender for going all the way.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by BobS:
I can't believe you posted this today. I thought most had a warm fuzzy feeling after watching the Smith and Crabtree coming out party, I guess not.

That's funny. I feel like we just lost a second straight game.

I still have a warm fuzzy feeling, after the first half I thought this team was well on it's way to 5-11 and needed to burn one or both of those 2010 first round picks on a QB.
After the game was over I see a shot at 9-7 or 10-6, a good chance Alex maybe the answer and using the 2 picks to fix the OL and be 12-4 next year and a legitimate contender for going all the way.

It's a little more complicated than that. First of all, we haven't seen Alex play a full game against a good defense yet. Second, I don't think drafting 2 OL is going to solve all of our problems. We still probably need a deep threat at WR, a safety, a good back-up RB, and someone to rush the passer. One could even argue that we might need to sign an eventual replacement for Clements, since he isn't as reliable as we once thought.

We are, however, on the right track. I hope we can compete against Indianapolis and Alex has a good game. That would solve our biggest need of all.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
"Dysfunctional" is the wrong word.

A better word would be "schizophrenic." It seems on offense we are moving in 10 different directions.

thats a perfect word.

Problem with the team is that the line can't get done what you want to do, in this case, power running.

Well, now VD has shown some prowess, Crabtree has some sticky mitts, and a QB with a stronger arm and more mobility. The identity might have to change to pass-to-set-up-run now.
I just want to know what a wreak is?
Originally posted by Ang:
I just want to know what a wreak is?

a ship wreak? man you wreak and need a shower? I don't know either