Fire GM Scott McClueless a.s.a.p.

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Norwalks.. You aren't getting much traction on the premise of this thread. I, like most of the respondents feel that Scott is doing a good job and would not want to see Holmgren replace Scott.

My only complaint would be his apprent inability to draft O-Linemen. Outside of Staley, who I think is really solid, the rest of his OL draft choices have not panned out. Not sure if this is because he can't spot OL talent or if he is drafting OL talent and they are not being coached up to the NFL level.

I just don't see any results in the field which are wins we are still a mediocre team. The players he has drafted have been mediocre with the exception of Gore, Willis, VD, Crabs that is it and we still have QB issues at least holmgren knows what it would take to build a team especially QB since he's been in multiple super bowls and why wouldn't we take a chance since we have been mediocre since he's been here?

The problem is QB. All the above average teams have franchise QB's. So I guess you are blaming Scot for not getting a franchise QB or you are blaming him for Alex's injury. I am not saying Alex is a for sure franchise QB, but who knows what we would've been like if he never got hurt.

Since you question Scott's drafting by posting this thread. Why don't you list GM's that have a better draft record the past 4 years. I am not saying Scott is the best since I have named 2 GM's that I believe has drafted better.

But since you started this thread to advocate replacing Scott with Holmgren, please list Holmgren's most recent drafts. Let's see if all his picks have been as great as you think they are.

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Norwalks.. You aren't getting much traction on the premise of this thread. I, like most of the respondents feel that Scott is doing a good job and would not want to see Holmgren replace Scott.

My only complaint would be his apprent inability to draft O-Linemen. Outside of Staley, who I think is really solid, the rest of his OL draft choices have not panned out. Not sure if this is because he can't spot OL talent or if he is drafting OL talent and they are not being coached up to the NFL level.

I just don't see any results in the field which are wins we are still a mediocre team. The players he has drafted have been mediocre with the exception of Gore, Willis, VD, Crabs that is it and we still have QB issues at least holmgren knows what it would take to build a team especially QB since he's been in multiple super bowls and why wouldn't we take a chance since we have been mediocre since he's been here?

Lets look at the first rounders for the 10 years prior to McG....

Rashaun Woods
Kwame Harris
Mike Rumph
Andre Carter
Julian Peterson
Ahmed Plummer
Reggie McGrew
R.W.McQuarters
Jim Druckenmiller
Israel Ifyanyi (2nd round, but first pick)
J.J. Stokes

Outside of Peterson MAYBE...

...would you trade Willis, V. Davis, Lawson, Staley or Crabtree for ANY of those guys?

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Norwalks.. You aren't getting much traction on the premise of this thread. I, like most of the respondents feel that Scott is doing a good job and would not want to see Holmgren replace Scott.

My only complaint would be his apprent inability to draft O-Linemen. Outside of Staley, who I think is really solid, the rest of his OL draft choices have not panned out. Not sure if this is because he can't spot OL talent or if he is drafting OL talent and they are not being coached up to the NFL level.

I just don't see any results in the field which are wins we are still a mediocre team. The players he has drafted have been mediocre with the exception of Gore, Willis, VD, Crabs that is it and we still have QB issues at least holmgren knows what it would take to build a team especially QB since he's been in multiple super bowls and why wouldn't we take a chance since we have been mediocre since he's been here?

The problem is QB. All the above average teams have franchise QB's. So I guess you are blaming Scot for not getting a franchise QB or you are blaming him for Alex's injury. I am not saying Alex is a for sure franchise QB, but who knows what we would've been like if he never got hurt.

All I got to say is that if we were winning I would not posted this thread but were not we are still mediocre at best. QB is still a problem and our team and maybe we need to shake the front office because obviously were a mediocre team? Am I wrong to think that way?

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Norwalks.. You aren't getting much traction on the premise of this thread. I, like most of the respondents feel that Scott is doing a good job and would not want to see Holmgren replace Scott.

My only complaint would be his apprent inability to draft O-Linemen. Outside of Staley, who I think is really solid, the rest of his OL draft choices have not panned out. Not sure if this is because he can't spot OL talent or if he is drafting OL talent and they are not being coached up to the NFL level.

I just don't see any results in the field which are wins we are still a mediocre team. The players he has drafted have been mediocre with the exception of Gore, Willis, VD, Crabs that is it and we still have QB issues at least holmgren knows what it would take to build a team especially QB since he's been in multiple super bowls and why wouldn't we take a chance since we have been mediocre since he's been here?

Lets look at the first rounders for the 10 years prior to McG....

Rashaun Woods
Kwame Harris
Mike Rumph
Andre Carter
Julian Peterson
Ahmed Plummer
Reggie McGrew
R.W.McQuarters
Jim Druckenmiller
Israel Ifyanyi (2nd round, but first pick)
J.J. Stokes

Outside of Peterson MAYBE...

...would you trade Willis, V. Davis, Lawson, Staley or Crabtree for ANY of those guys?

We are still not winning still a mediocre team that is all I'm saying. Maybe we need front office movement Am I wrong for saying that? Wins is what matter or else I wouldn't be having this conversation right?

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Norwalks.. You aren't getting much traction on the premise of this thread. I, like most of the respondents feel that Scott is doing a good job and would not want to see Holmgren replace Scott.

My only complaint would be his apprent inability to draft O-Linemen. Outside of Staley, who I think is really solid, the rest of his OL draft choices have not panned out. Not sure if this is because he can't spot OL talent or if he is drafting OL talent and they are not being coached up to the NFL level.

I just don't see any results in the field which are wins we are still a mediocre team. The players he has drafted have been mediocre with the exception of Gore, Willis, VD, Crabs that is it and we still have QB issues at least holmgren knows what it would take to build a team especially QB since he's been in multiple super bowls and why wouldn't we take a chance since we have been mediocre since he's been here?

The problem is QB. All the above average teams have franchise QB's. So I guess you are blaming Scot for not getting a franchise QB or you are blaming him for Alex's injury. I am not saying Alex is a for sure franchise QB, but who knows what we would've been like if he never got hurt.

All I got to say is that if we were winning I would not posted this thread but were not we are still mediocre at best. QB is still a problem and our team and maybe we need to shake the front office because obviously were a mediocre team? Am I wrong to think that way?

Yes you are wrong, because if you want to fix a problem, you have to find the reason first. You can't just randomly select someone and blame him for it. Show me what moves he has done wrong. What happens if you fire the wrong person who has been doing a good job? Answer: You set your team back even worst.

If you want my opinion on why we are a mediocre team today, I blame our QB situation. Because Shaun Hill performed "OK" last year while our franchise QB has been hurt the past 2 years, Hill earned the starting QB position. The QB position is THE MOST IMPORTANT position in football (and probably of all sports period). Since Hill (while a gamer) has obvious physical limitations, the opposing defenses only have to defend a very short field. This is a huge advantage for opposing teams. We have all seen teams load the box with 8 to 9 defenders because Hill can't attack the entire field and make opposing teams play us honestly.

Bottomline: I am actually surprised we are a mediocre team given we probably had the most physically limited QB in the entire league (again the most important position by far). That says alot about the rest of our team.

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Norwalks.. You aren't getting much traction on the premise of this thread. I, like most of the respondents feel that Scott is doing a good job and would not want to see Holmgren replace Scott.

My only complaint would be his apprent inability to draft O-Linemen. Outside of Staley, who I think is really solid, the rest of his OL draft choices have not panned out. Not sure if this is because he can't spot OL talent or if he is drafting OL talent and they are not being coached up to the NFL level.

I just don't see any results in the field which are wins we are still a mediocre team. The players he has drafted have been mediocre with the exception of Gore, Willis, VD, Crabs that is it and we still have QB issues at least holmgren knows what it would take to build a team especially QB since he's been in multiple super bowls and why wouldn't we take a chance since we have been mediocre since he's been here?

Lets look at the first rounders for the 10 years prior to McG....

Rashaun Woods
Kwame Harris
Mike Rumph
Andre Carter
Julian Peterson
Ahmed Plummer
Reggie McGrew
R.W.McQuarters
Jim Druckenmiller
Israel Ifyanyi (2nd round, but first pick)
J.J. Stokes

Outside of Peterson MAYBE...

...would you trade Willis, V. Davis, Lawson, Staley or Crabtree for ANY of those guys?

We are still not winning still a mediocre team that is all I'm saying. Maybe we need front office movement Am I wrong for saying that? Wins is what matter or else I wouldn't be having this conversation right?

It doesn't happen overnight.

When McG started here we were worse than an expansion team. No talent AND HUGE Salary cap problems.

This team is ALOT more talented than when Scot got here...and THATS his job. The wins will come.

As for Holmgren...he was STRIPPED of his GM duties in Seattle because he wasn't any good at it. Thats not the guy I want running the team.

Originally posted by kronik:
Why don't you list McCloughan's draft record (4 years) and then you list Holmgren's last 4 years where he was in charge of the draft. Then let's compare and discuss.

The only GM's I would replace Scott with are Ozzie Newsome and Bill Polian. I have seen the recent drafts of Bellichek and Parcells and I think they are so overrated.

I've noted Pro Bowl selections in bold. It's challenging to really compare the two, as Scot McCloughan hasn't had just two drafts to his name (2009 has been omitted). Without going into the future to see how his classes develop, it's difficult to judge him.


Mike Holgren, General Manager / 1999 - 2002

1999 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 22 - Lamar King, DE
Round 3, Pick 77 - Brock Huard, QB
Round 3, Pick 82 - Karsten Bailey, WR
Round 4, Pick 115 - Antonio Cochran, DE
Round 5, Pick 140 - Floyd Wedderburn, G
Round 5, Pick 152 - Charlie Rogers, RB
Round 6, Pick 170 - Steve Johnson, CB

2000 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 19 - Shaun Alexander, RB
Round 1, Pick 22 - Chris McIntosh, OT
Round 2, Pick 52 - Ike Charlton, CB
Round 3, Pick 80 - Darrell Jackson, WR
Round 4, Pick 116 - Marcus Bell, LB
Round 4, Pick 119 - Isaiah Kacyvenski, LB
Round 6, Pick 175 - James Williams, WR
Round 6, Pick 185 - Tim Watson, DT
Round 6, Pick 190 - John Hilliard, DT

2001 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 9 - Koren Robinson, WR
Round 1, Pick 17 - Steve Hutchinson, G
Round 2, Pick 40 - Ken Lucas, CB
Round 3, Pick 82 - Heath Evans, FB
Round 4, Pick 104 - Orlando Huff, LB
Round 4, Pick 127 - Curtis Fuller, S
Round 4, Pick 128 - Floyd Womack, T
Round 5, Pick 140 - Alex Bannister, WR
Round 6, Pick 172 - Josh Booty, QB
Round 7, Pick 210 - Harold Blackmon, S
Round 7, Pick 222 - Dennis Norman, C
Round 7, Pick 237 - Kris Kocurek, DT

2002 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 28 - Jerramy Stevens, TE
Round 2, Pick 54 - Maurice Morris, RB
Round 2, Pick 60 - Anton Palepoi, DE
Round 3, Pick 85 - Kris Richard, CB
Round 4, Pick 120 - Terreal Bierria, S
Round 5, Pick 146 - Rocky Bernard, DT
Round 5, Pick 169 - Ryan Hannam, TE
Round 5, Pick 171 - Matt Hill, T
Round 6, Pick 194 - Craig Jarrett, P
Round 7, Pick 232 - Jeff Kelly, QB


Scot McCloughan, Vice President of Player Personnel 2005 - 2007, General Manager 2008 - Present)

2005 NFL Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 1 - Alex Smith, QB
Round 2, Pick 33 - David Baas, G
Round 3, Pick 65 - Frank Gore, RB
Round 3, Pick 94 - Adam Snyder, G
Round 5, Pick 137 - Ronald Fields, DT
Round 5, Pick 174 - Rasheed Marshall, WR
Round 6, Pick 205 - Derrick Johnson, CB
Round 7, Pick 215 - Daven Holly, CB
Round 7, Pick 223 - Marcus Maxwell, WR
Round 7, Pick 248 - Patrick Estes, T
Round 7, Pick 249 - Billy Bajema, TE

2006 NFL Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 6 - Vernon Davis, TE
Round 1, Pick 22 - Manny Lawson, LB
Round 3, Pick 84 - Brandon Williams, WR
Round 4, Pick 100 - Michael Robinson, RB
Round 5, Pick 140 - Parys Haralson, LB
Round 6, Pick 175 - Delaine Walker, TE
Round 6, Pick 192 - Marcus Hudson, S
Round 6, Pick 197 - Melvin Oliver, DT
Round 7, Pick 237 - Demetrice Webb, CB
Round 7, Pick 254 - Vickiel Vaughn, S

2007 Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 11 - Patrick Willis, LB
Round 1, Pick 28 - Joe Staley, T
Round 3, Pick 78 - Jason Hill, WR
Round 3, Pick 97 - Ray McDonald, DE
Round 4, Pick 104 - Jay Moore, LB
Round 4, Pick 126 - Dashon Goldson, S
Round 4, Pick 135 - Joe Cohen, DT
Round 5, Pick 147 - Tarell Brown, CB
Round 6, Pick 186 - Thomas Clayton, RB

2008 Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 29 - Kentwan Balmer, DT
Round 2, Pick 39 - Chilo Rachal, G
Round 3, Pick 75 - Reggie Smith, S
Round 4, Pick 107 - Cody Wallace, C
Round 6, Pick 174 - Josh Morgan, WR
Round 7, Pick 214 - Larry Grant, LB

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by kronik:
Why don't you list McCloughan's draft record (4 years) and then you list Holmgren's last 4 years where he was in charge of the draft. Then let's compare and discuss.

The only GM's I would replace Scott with are Ozzie Newsome and Bill Polian. I have seen the recent drafts of Bellichek and Parcells and I think they are so overrated.

I've noted Pro Bowl selections in bold. It's challenging to really compare the two, as Scot McCloughan hasn't had just two drafts to his name (2009 has been omitted). Without going into the future to see how his classes develop, it's difficult to judge him.


Mike Holgren, General Manager / 1999 - 2002

1999 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 22 - Lamar King, DE
Round 3, Pick 77 - Brock Huard, QB
Round 3, Pick 82 - Karsten Bailey, WR
Round 4, Pick 115 - Antonio Cochran, DE
Round 5, Pick 140 - Floyd Wedderburn, G
Round 5, Pick 152 - Charlie Rogers, RB
Round 6, Pick 170 - Steve Johnson, CB

2000 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 19 - Shaun Alexander, RB
Round 1, Pick 22 - Chris McIntosh, OT
Round 2, Pick 52 - Ike Charlton, CB
Round 3, Pick 80 - Darrell Jackson, WR
Round 4, Pick 116 - Marcus Bell, LB
Round 4, Pick 119 - Isaiah Kacyvenski, LB
Round 6, Pick 175 - James Williams, WR
Round 6, Pick 185 - Tim Watson, DT
Round 6, Pick 190 - John Hilliard, DT

2001 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 9 - Koren Robinson, WR
Round 1, Pick 17 - Steve Hutchinson, G
Round 2, Pick 40 - Ken Lucas, CB
Round 3, Pick 82 - Heath Evans, FB
Round 4, Pick 104 - Orlando Huff, LB
Round 4, Pick 127 - Curtis Fuller, S
Round 4, Pick 128 - Floyd Womack, T
Round 5, Pick 140 - Alex Bannister, WR
Round 6, Pick 172 - Josh Booty, QB
Round 7, Pick 210 - Harold Blackmon, S
Round 7, Pick 222 - Dennis Norman, C
Round 7, Pick 237 - Kris Kocurek, DT

2002 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 28 - Jerramy Stevens, TE
Round 2, Pick 54 - Maurice Morris, RB
Round 2, Pick 60 - Anton Palepoi, DE
Round 3, Pick 85 - Kris Richard, CB
Round 4, Pick 120 - Terreal Bierria, S
Round 5, Pick 146 - Rocky Bernard, DT
Round 5, Pick 169 - Ryan Hannam, TE
Round 5, Pick 171 - Matt Hill, T
Round 6, Pick 194 - Craig Jarrett, P
Round 7, Pick 232 - Jeff Kelly, QB


Scot McCloughan, Vice President of Player Personnel 2005 - 2007, General Manager 2008 - Present)

2005 NFL Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 1 - Alex Smith, QB
Round 2, Pick 33 - David Baas, G
Round 3, Pick 65 - Frank Gore, RB
Round 3, Pick 94 - Adam Snyder, G
Round 5, Pick 137 - Ronald Fields, DT
Round 5, Pick 174 - Rasheed Marshall, WR
Round 6, Pick 205 - Derrick Johnson, CB
Round 7, Pick 215 - Daven Holly, CB
Round 7, Pick 223 - Marcus Maxwell, WR
Round 7, Pick 248 - Patrick Estes, T
Round 7, Pick 249 - Billy Bajema, TE

2006 NFL Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 6 - Vernon Davis, TE
Round 1, Pick 22 - Manny Lawson, LB
Round 3, Pick 84 - Brandon Williams, WR
Round 4, Pick 100 - Michael Robinson, RB
Round 5, Pick 140 - Parys Haralson, LB
Round 6, Pick 175 - Delaine Walker, TE
Round 6, Pick 192 - Marcus Hudson, S
Round 6, Pick 197 - Melvin Oliver, DT
Round 7, Pick 237 - Demetrice Webb, CB
Round 7, Pick 254 - Vickiel Vaughn, S

2007 Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 11 - Patrick Willis, LB
Round 1, Pick 28 - Joe Staley, T
Round 3, Pick 78 - Jason Hill, WR
Round 3, Pick 97 - Ray McDonald, DE
Round 4, Pick 104 - Jay Moore, LB
Round 4, Pick 126 - Dashon Goldson, S
Round 4, Pick 135 - Joe Cohen, DT
Round 5, Pick 147 - Tarell Brown, CB
Round 6, Pick 186 - Thomas Clayton, RB

2008 Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 29 - Kentwan Balmer, DT
Round 2, Pick 39 - Chilo Rachal, G
Round 3, Pick 75 - Reggie Smith, S
Round 4, Pick 107 - Cody Wallace, C
Round 6, Pick 174 - Josh Morgan, WR
Round 7, Pick 214 - Larry Grant, LB

Thanks for the info, now let's see how many of Holmgren's draft picks actually contributed for them and long they stayed in the NFL.

Bottomline: Aside from Alexander and Hutchinson, Holmgren's list looks pretty bad.

PS: Who is Bannister? Did he make the pro bowl due to special teams? Does that count as a good draft pick?

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by kronik:
Why don't you list McCloughan's draft record (4 years) and then you list Holmgren's last 4 years where he was in charge of the draft. Then let's compare and discuss.

The only GM's I would replace Scott with are Ozzie Newsome and Bill Polian. I have seen the recent drafts of Bellichek and Parcells and I think they are so overrated.

I've noted Pro Bowl selections in bold. It's challenging to really compare the two, as Scot McCloughan hasn't had just two drafts to his name (2009 has been omitted). Without going into the future to see how his classes develop, it's difficult to judge him.


Mike Holgren, General Manager / 1999 - 2002

1999 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 22 - Lamar King, DE
Round 3, Pick 77 - Brock Huard, QB
Round 3, Pick 82 - Karsten Bailey, WR
Round 4, Pick 115 - Antonio Cochran, DE
Round 5, Pick 140 - Floyd Wedderburn, G
Round 5, Pick 152 - Charlie Rogers, RB
Round 6, Pick 170 - Steve Johnson, CB

2000 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 19 - Shaun Alexander, RB
Round 1, Pick 22 - Chris McIntosh, OT
Round 2, Pick 52 - Ike Charlton, CB
Round 3, Pick 80 - Darrell Jackson, WR
Round 4, Pick 116 - Marcus Bell, LB
Round 4, Pick 119 - Isaiah Kacyvenski, LB
Round 6, Pick 175 - James Williams, WR
Round 6, Pick 185 - Tim Watson, DT
Round 6, Pick 190 - John Hilliard, DT

2001 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 9 - Koren Robinson, WR
Round 1, Pick 17 - Steve Hutchinson, G
Round 2, Pick 40 - Ken Lucas, CB
Round 3, Pick 82 - Heath Evans, FB
Round 4, Pick 104 - Orlando Huff, LB
Round 4, Pick 127 - Curtis Fuller, S
Round 4, Pick 128 - Floyd Womack, T
Round 5, Pick 140 - Alex Bannister, WR
Round 6, Pick 172 - Josh Booty, QB
Round 7, Pick 210 - Harold Blackmon, S
Round 7, Pick 222 - Dennis Norman, C
Round 7, Pick 237 - Kris Kocurek, DT

2002 NFL Draft, Seattle Seahawks
Round 1, Pick 28 - Jerramy Stevens, TE
Round 2, Pick 54 - Maurice Morris, RB
Round 2, Pick 60 - Anton Palepoi, DE
Round 3, Pick 85 - Kris Richard, CB
Round 4, Pick 120 - Terreal Bierria, S
Round 5, Pick 146 - Rocky Bernard, DT
Round 5, Pick 169 - Ryan Hannam, TE
Round 5, Pick 171 - Matt Hill, T
Round 6, Pick 194 - Craig Jarrett, P
Round 7, Pick 232 - Jeff Kelly, QB


Scot McCloughan, Vice President of Player Personnel 2005 - 2007, General Manager 2008 - Present)

2005 NFL Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 1 - Alex Smith, QB
Round 2, Pick 33 - David Baas, G
Round 3, Pick 65 - Frank Gore, RB
Round 3, Pick 94 - Adam Snyder, G
Round 5, Pick 137 - Ronald Fields, DT
Round 5, Pick 174 - Rasheed Marshall, WR
Round 6, Pick 205 - Derrick Johnson, CB
Round 7, Pick 215 - Daven Holly, CB
Round 7, Pick 223 - Marcus Maxwell, WR
Round 7, Pick 248 - Patrick Estes, T
Round 7, Pick 249 - Billy Bajema, TE

2006 NFL Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 6 - Vernon Davis, TE
Round 1, Pick 22 - Manny Lawson, LB
Round 3, Pick 84 - Brandon Williams, WR
Round 4, Pick 100 - Michael Robinson, RB
Round 5, Pick 140 - Parys Haralson, LB
Round 6, Pick 175 - Delaine Walker, TE
Round 6, Pick 192 - Marcus Hudson, S
Round 6, Pick 197 - Melvin Oliver, DT
Round 7, Pick 237 - Demetrice Webb, CB
Round 7, Pick 254 - Vickiel Vaughn, S

2007 Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 11 - Patrick Willis, LB
Round 1, Pick 28 - Joe Staley, T
Round 3, Pick 78 - Jason Hill, WR
Round 3, Pick 97 - Ray McDonald, DE
Round 4, Pick 104 - Jay Moore, LB
Round 4, Pick 126 - Dashon Goldson, S
Round 4, Pick 135 - Joe Cohen, DT
Round 5, Pick 147 - Tarell Brown, CB
Round 6, Pick 186 - Thomas Clayton, RB

2008 Draft, San Francisco 49ers
Round 1, Pick 29 - Kentwan Balmer, DT
Round 2, Pick 39 - Chilo Rachal, G
Round 3, Pick 75 - Reggie Smith, S
Round 4, Pick 107 - Cody Wallace, C
Round 6, Pick 174 - Josh Morgan, WR
Round 7, Pick 214 - Larry Grant, LB

Thanks for the info, now let's see how many of Holmgren's draft picks actually contributed for them and long they stayed in the NFL.

Bottomline: Aside from Alexander and Hutchinson, Holmgren's list looks pretty bad.

PS: Who is Bannister? Did he make the pro bowl due to special teams? Does that count as a good draft pick?

....and Robinson made it as a returner for another team.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Yeah man he sucked as a GM.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Norwalks.. You aren't getting much traction on the premise of this thread. I, like most of the respondents feel that Scott is doing a good job and would not want to see Holmgren replace Scott.

My only complaint would be his apprent inability to draft O-Linemen. Outside of Staley, who I think is really solid, the rest of his OL draft choices have not panned out. Not sure if this is because he can't spot OL talent or if he is drafting OL talent and they are not being coached up to the NFL level.

I just don't see any results in the field which are wins we are still a mediocre team. The players he has drafted have been mediocre with the exception of Gore, Willis, VD, Crabs that is it and we still have QB issues at least holmgren knows what it would take to build a team especially QB since he's been in multiple super bowls and why wouldn't we take a chance since we have been mediocre since he's been here?

Lets look at the first rounders for the 10 years prior to McG....

Rashaun Woods
Kwame Harris
Mike Rumph
Andre Carter
Julian Peterson
Ahmed Plummer
Reggie McGrew
R.W.McQuarters
Jim Druckenmiller
Israel Ifyanyi (2nd round, but first pick)
J.J. Stokes

Outside of Peterson MAYBE...

...would you trade Willis, V. Davis, Lawson, Staley or Crabtree for ANY of those guys?

Nice post and Good point.

Scotty Mac has done his job well enough. Are there better GM's? Sure. Are there worse? You betcha...

I'd look at firing the O-Line coach well before the GM. Were getting better and some of the talent Scott has brought in is starting to show their worth.

Originally posted by kronik:
Thanks for the info, now let's see how many of Holmgren's draft picks actually contributed for them and long they stayed in the NFL.

Bottomline: Aside from Alexander and Hutchinson, Holmgren's list looks pretty bad.

PS: Who is Bannister? Did he make the pro bowl due to special teams? Does that count?

It's irrelevant to compare each player's career length and contribution, as the sample sizes are from different periods of time. It would be like determining Koren Robinson's worth after two seasons and before he found heavy drinking and drugs favorable to football. As unlikely as it sounds, any football player is one charge away from (temporary) banishment. Also, long term injuries should be considered.

Alex Bannister legitimately won the Special Teams Pro Bowl spot for the NFC in 2003. His career contributions however were minimal, and he's currently unemployed.

As I stated before, we can't take much into account based on his comparison.

What does everyone want these 60-year old guys to come (back) to San Francisco? You hear about Holmgren (61) and Shanahan (57) all the time on the WZ.

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by kronik:
Thanks for the info, now let's see how many of Holmgren's draft picks actually contributed for them and long they stayed in the NFL.

Bottomline: Aside from Alexander and Hutchinson, Holmgren's list looks pretty bad.

PS: Who is Bannister? Did he make the pro bowl due to special teams? Does that count?

It's irrelevant to compare each player's career length and contribution, as the sample sizes are from different periods of time. It would be like determining Koren Robinson's worth after two seasons and before he found heavy drink and drug favorable to football. As unlikely as it sounds, any football player is one charge away from (temporary) banishment. Also, long term injuries should be considered.

Alex Bannister legitimately won the Special Teams Pro Bowl spot for the NFC in 2003. His career contributions however were minimal, and he's currently unemployed.

As I stated before, we can't take much into account based on his comparison.

Agreed. Still, I am not impressed at all of Holmgren's eye for talent. As for his coaching, he is definately above average.

Originally posted by Gavintech:
What does everyone want these 60-year old guys to come (back) to San Francisco? You hear about Holmgren (61) and Shanahan (57) all the time on the WZ.

Not everyone wants these guys. Some people see or hear a "name" that is famous, and that makes them a god in some posters' eyes.