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We should have paid Crabtree what he demanded in July

Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
We'll never know the answer to that question, but you're crazy if you believe that our receiving core would still be averaging 80 yards a game with Crabtree in the lineup.

Crabtree gave us the ability to do something that we haven't done all year. Converting 3rd downs in passing situations. Those 3rd down conversions led to 21 points. Whose to say that wouldn't happen in the Minnesota game?

Exactly.

I have a hard time believing that we'd have as many 3 and outs as we did in the first five games......with Michael Crabtree playing in those games.

Hill was ignoring the wideouts when he felt the rush, I am not bashing Hill, just stating a fact. Hill played as well as he could, but the bottom line is he couldn't get the ball to the playmakers with any consistency. Crabtree might have helped some, but I do not buy that the receivers weren't getting open for Hill, then magically started getting open for Smith Sunday.
yea give him what he wants so the next 1rst round pick can do the same thing
  • B650
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Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
We'll never know the answer to that question, but you're crazy if you believe that our receiving core would still be averaging 80 yards a game with Crabtree in the lineup.

Crabtree gave us the ability to do something that we haven't done all year. Converting 3rd downs in passing situations. Those 3rd down conversions led to 21 points. Whose to say that wouldn't happen in the Minnesota game?

Exactly.

I have a hard time believing that we'd have as many 3 and outs as we did in the first five games......with Michael Crabtree playing in those games.

Hill was ignoring the wideouts when he felt the rush, I am not bashing Hill, just stating a fact. Hill played as well as he could, but the bottom line is he couldn't get the ball to the playmakers with any consistency. Crabtree might have helped some, but I do not buy that the receivers weren't getting open for Hill, then magically started getting open for Smith Sunday.

Agreed. I think Smith's combination of height and quickness allow him to scan the field better than Shaun Hill when there's pressure. Hill simply lost all his vision when there was pressure. He misses open WRs several times a game.
Although encouraged by what I saw from Crabtree yesterday and from the team in the second half, I still don't think the 9ers are yet a genuine playoff contender. Next year with those two first round picks and some seasoning, then absolutely. Paying Crabtree exorbitantly back in July wouldn't have made much of a difference so far this season and it sure wouldn't help with those two first round picks next year.
Originally posted by fzrdave:
Although encouraged by what I saw from Crabtree yesterday and from the team in the second half, I still don't think the 9ers are yet a genuine playoff contender. Next year with those two first round picks and some seasoning, then absolutely. Paying Crabtree exorbitantly back in July wouldn't have made much of a difference so far this season and it sure wouldn't help with those two first round picks next year.

we need a RT and a RG so badly
Originally posted by backontop:
yea give him what he wants so the next 1rst round pick can do the same thing

People that think we should have paid Crabtree don't see the big picture.
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
We'll never know the answer to that question, but you're crazy if you believe that our receiving core would still be averaging 80 yards a game with Crabtree in the lineup.

Crabtree gave us the ability to do something that we haven't done all year. Converting 3rd downs in passing situations. Those 3rd down conversions led to 21 points. Whose to say that wouldn't happen in the Minnesota game?

Exactly.

I have a hard time believing that we'd have as many 3 and outs as we did in the first five games......with Michael Crabtree playing in those games.

Hill was ignoring the wideouts when he felt the rush, I am not bashing Hill, just stating a fact. Hill played as well as he could, but the bottom line is he couldn't get the ball to the playmakers with any consistency. Crabtree might have helped some, but I do not buy that the receivers weren't getting open for Hill, then magically started getting open for Smith Sunday.

Agreed. I think Smith's combination of height and quickness allow him to scan the field better than Shaun Hill when there's pressure. Hill simply lost all his vision when there was pressure. He misses open WRs several times a game.

Smith is only an inch taller...
  • B650
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
We'll never know the answer to that question, but you're crazy if you believe that our receiving core would still be averaging 80 yards a game with Crabtree in the lineup.

Crabtree gave us the ability to do something that we haven't done all year. Converting 3rd downs in passing situations. Those 3rd down conversions led to 21 points. Whose to say that wouldn't happen in the Minnesota game?

Exactly.

I have a hard time believing that we'd have as many 3 and outs as we did in the first five games......with Michael Crabtree playing in those games.

Hill was ignoring the wideouts when he felt the rush, I am not bashing Hill, just stating a fact. Hill played as well as he could, but the bottom line is he couldn't get the ball to the playmakers with any consistency. Crabtree might have helped some, but I do not buy that the receivers weren't getting open for Hill, then magically started getting open for Smith Sunday.

Agreed. I think Smith's combination of height and quickness allow him to scan the field better than Shaun Hill when there's pressure. Hill simply lost all his vision when there was pressure. He misses open WRs several times a game.

Smith is only an inch taller...

An inch means a lot.

  • 9ermj
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Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Sure lets pay every player top 3 money when they were drafted #10. Great idea.

That's not what I said. Obviously the NFL rookie system is screwed up.

But for Michael Crabtree, I think we should have made an exception and broken slot.


Why? he was good Sunday but who was going to throw to him
Originally posted by Mospeed:
That along with starting a healthy Alex Smith in week 1 would have been nice.

giving Smith time to develope was key, Sing hinted at it in his recent comments.
as for Crabtree I love that we stuck to our guns, saved cap $, didn't break the slot, got an impact player ready to go, got 6 years instead of 5 it was a win all around.
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by crzy:
If Crabtree can put up 5/50 with very little practice time, little rhythm with our quarterbacks, and only a basic understanding of our system.....you don't think he would have had a monumental impact this season with a full training camp and preseason under his belt?

That's all I'm saying.

Look you guys can rag on Shaun Hill all you want. But our wide receivers for much of this season have not been getting separation from defensive backs. And Michael Crabtree gets open.


It's good that you put up that image. There's literally three guys wide open on this play, and Hill stared down Crabtree the entire f**king time. I think that's Morgan over the middle, who's right past the first down marker after his cut, if Hill makes that throw he could have gotten some YAC. Sorry, but please don't say things like, "Look you guys can rag on Shaun Hill..." There's a reason we're ragging on him. He's been playing like he doesn't know wtf is going on, it's incredibly terrible.

There's other guys easily open on that very same play. In fact even more open.

This.

Actually this was a 3rd down play so there are really only 2 options I see where the ball could go and if you hit the WR coming on the crossing pattern you have a safety right there who could

A- jump the route

or

B- lay a good lick on the WR possibly even jarring the ball loose

The right read was made on this play.


As far as the same old tired argument that I read in here about future 1st round picks pulling the same stunt just stop. It has been addressed a thousand times. Did the Cards or Jets have those problems after they busted slot for Fitz or Revis ? Honestly a good agent would attempt to talk his client out of this unless his client is in a similar situation that of Crabtree. There is no way an agent wants to hang himself out there like that unless he has what he believes is a strong case.

As far as the counter argument that Crabs should have accepted the deal in July....it was not the same deal that he got when he did sign and all indications were the 49ers were not willing to negotiate on that offer.

Crzy has a valid point. Scot was on record about MC being a homerun and something we did not have PRE-DRAFT. Had we paid him his money in July there is a chance that we are better than 3-3 right now or that our offense looks less anemic than it did through that 6 game stretch. Obviously though crzy no one is willing to admit that or eat crow on their prior stance because MC is a greedy scum sucking DIVA and Eugene Parker is the world's biggest asshat....remember ? Just like Crabtree would have no impact or see the field if he signed during the season because he was too out of shape and too far behind in the offense.

At the end of the day whether you are willing to admit it or not you can't touch crzy's point.

Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
It would have been Crazy to give Crabtree that money that he wanted.

1) It would have shown the Niners to be weak in the front office and sent a message to the league that the Niners were desperate.
2) It would have screwed up our draft for next year.
3) We all know the Darrius Heyward Bey shouldnt have been drafted at 7 but that doesn't mean the Crabtree should be paid like him.

It's unfortunate that Crabtree took bad advice from his agent and yes we could have used him earlier in the season, but at least he came to his senses and we signed him and most importantly the Niners held their ground and showed him no disrespect so he can stay a Niner hopefully for a long time. He looked good on Sunday with limited practice time.....he should be lighting it up by year end.

By the way Vernon Davis is awesome the Niners better lock him up!

1- Did the Cards FO look weak when they paid Fitz a better deal than Eli Manning ?

2- Did it screw up the Cards draft the following year ?

3- The Chargers made the right pick at #1....a QB because Brees had not shown he was the guy to lead that team...

Manning the #1 pick traded to the team at #4 got 6 years 54 million 20 million guaranteed.

Rivers drafted #4 traded to the team who sat at #1 got 6 years 40.5 million 14.5 million guaranteed.

Fitz drafted #3 overall got 6 years 60 million 20 million guaranteed.

Fitz never should have gotten a better deal than Manning yet Eugene Parker made it happen and the Cards never suffered any repercussions with the result. They believed in the player they took (and they already had Q in the fold so they did not have to give in to the demands) gave him a fat wad of cash and it paid off nicely for them.

Good job your argument failed.
  • BobS
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Everything worked out fine. Who knows, if Crabtree would have been there from day one he might have helped Hill save his job and that would have been bad.
I don't usually mock other threads because my posts are not exactly top calibre all the time, but this was a brutal thread.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Oldschool9erfan:
It would have been Crazy to give Crabtree that money that he wanted.

1) It would have shown the Niners to be weak in the front office and sent a message to the league that the Niners were desperate.
2) It would have screwed up our draft for next year.
3) We all know the Darrius Heyward Bey shouldnt have been drafted at 7 but that doesn't mean the Crabtree should be paid like him.

It's unfortunate that Crabtree took bad advice from his agent and yes we could have used him earlier in the season, but at least he came to his senses and we signed him and most importantly the Niners held their ground and showed him no disrespect so he can stay a Niner hopefully for a long time. He looked good on Sunday with limited practice time.....he should be lighting it up by year end.

By the way Vernon Davis is awesome the Niners better lock him up!

1- Did the Cards FO look weak when they paid Fitz a better deal than Eli Manning ?

2- Did it screw up the Cards draft the following year ?

3- The Chargers made the right pick at #1....a QB because Brees had not shown he was the guy to lead that team...

Manning the #1 pick traded to the team at #4 got 6 years 54 million 20 million guaranteed.

Rivers drafted #4 traded to the team who sat at #1 got 6 years 40.5 million 14.5 million guaranteed.

Fitz drafted #3 overall got 6 years 60 million 20 million guaranteed.

Fitz never should have gotten a better deal than Manning yet Eugene Parker made it happen and the Cards never suffered any repercussions with the result. They believed in the player they took (and they already had Q in the fold so they did not have to give in to the demands) gave him a fat wad of cash and it paid off nicely for them.

Good job your argument failed.

Looking at it, there's arguments to be made both ways so no one is right here. No, giving into a rookie's exorbitant demands doesn't necessarily mean your team will suffer in the long run, but it doesn't mean that it will help either. Again, at BEST it's pure speculation to say that if Crabs started from day one we'd have a better record.

You simply don't know that as a fact.