Alex Smith Bandwagon

Originally posted by mrgneissguy:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by mrgneissguy:

Here’s a question to the Alex Smith supporters who think anyone that doubts him is a hater secretly hoping the team fails to prove a point. What about the other players on the team? With your arguments in favor of Smith, you basically say that the WRs are not good enough (too many dropped balls), the offensive line is not good enough (don’t give him enough time), the coaches are not good enough (the play calling was too predictable and forced him into too many 3rd and long situations), and the front office isn’t good enough (haven’t given him any consistency to work with).

Your arguments are fair and valid when you disrespect the entire organization

- Any a$$ clown can see and know that the organization has failed on many fronts to develop this QB. That isn't being disloyal or disrespectful of the organization. That's just calling it like it is, and everybody knows it. They didn't mean for it to happen, but it went down that way all the same.

- We can regard our receivers as good and talented while at the same time acknowledging that they need to do a better job of catching the ball... especially at crucial game moments.

- It has taken the coaching and personnel upgrades quite some time to improve to an acceptable level... which is the same time period that the QB is improving to a level that can help generate a non-losing record. Coincidence? Me thinks not. A developing QB can not succeed without good players and coaching... consistent coaching... around him. That's just the way it is. It would be one thing if we were speaking about the lazy, unmotivated JaMarcus Russell.... but we are not. We are talking about a QB that does 100% to do his part. Finally, the offense around him seems to be able and willing to do theirs.

- There could very well be a double standard when a fan states absolutes about Nate Davis, yet then bitc*es because someone else says the same about Alex. That to me would be a double standard and therefore a no-no. I can only speak for myself to say I don't do that.

I'm not arguing the validity of the organization's failures. I'm not saying that those things didn't happen. I'm asking how those statements you just made are any different in regards to your loyalty to the team than statements by others who think that Alex Smith may not be a good enough QB to get the Niners to where we want them to be? I might say Alex Smith hasn't lived up to expectations and you say I want the team to fail. You say that the organization hasn't lived up to expectations...wouldn't it be reasonable for me to say you also want the team to fail? Personally I don't think you do want the team to fail, no more than I want the team to fail. I fail to see the difference between those two situations.

You do recognize that I make no such claim that every or even most fans that feel Smith is not good enough want him to fail.... right?

I do believe that there are a handful on each 49er site that DO hope he fails though. Nothing on Earth would convince me otherwise, after all I have read through the years. You are trying to correlate two very different things here.

Originally posted by HomerJ:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:
Wow this is what it's come to homerism and hate. I'm loving the whines of "this is a pro-Smith thread gtfo if you don't agree!", homophobic bating, and childish profanity. I don't know about you but the f word is blase, sadly I'm not even shocked any more when it comes out the mouth of a 8 year old.

As a nonsupporter of Alex Smith, even I'll allow for the possibility that he'll make it to the playoffs and get accolades in the form of a Pro Bowl invite. You don't have to be a Hall of Famer to accomplish that.

But in confirming why I've taken up residency on this thread, the pro-Smith fans continue to freak out when confronted with a dissenting view point. All the while they still can't make a credible argument as to why he's our "franchise" QB.

The bolded is the problem with your line of thinking. You don't have to like him or think he is anything close to resembling a good quarterback, but the very definition of being a fan entails that you should support him.

I can grasp the notion that you don't believe in Alex Smith and accordingly you wish we had a different guy taking the snaps:

But we don't. Alex Smith is the quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers, you can hate it, love it, or be indifferent, the fact remains the same. Not supporting Alex when the team's success so clearly hinges on his play, really calls into question what exactly do you support?

Because if you support the 49ers then you have to want (and some may even need) Alex Smith to do well. You can't root for the Niners and not root for #11 the teams success is too dependent on his success, and the sooner you can make your peace with that the better you will be.

So, while you may not believe, you had better hope like the rest of us; lest of course you had rather be proven right than see the team win. And if that's the case I would strongly suggest that you review the definition for the word "fan".

A lot of great posts throughout, but this one made me particularly proud.

Something I typed out this morning... might be garbage, but whatever... it's what I do while drinking my 1st cup o java.... v

All of the haters have their collective arse covered.

Why? Because they can win either way.

- If Alex does well and we win football games, they were proven wrong... but their favorite team is winning, so WIN for them!

- If Alex does poorly and we lose football games, though the team losses suck, at least joy can be found in puffing out their e-chests and saying "told ya so"... so WIN for them!

So the typical Alex-hater belongs in 1 of these groups:

1) Attention-seeker: Someone who doesn't much care one way or the other about #11, but enjoys being negative because it sends responses his way. He or she is a lonely soul, and is the type to spawn-camp or use other cheats in video games just to ruin your experience and have people yelling at you. They want attention and they don't care which form it comes in.

2) Cowardly Nancy: Someone who had been hoping for a while that #11 could be our savior, but has since lost all hope. This person refuses to put his emotions and trust back out there, for fear that any possible future letdowns will be too painful too endure.

3) Bitter Soul: This person either immediately hated the #11 selection, or quickly came to resent #11 thereafter. This person is very impatient, spoiled, and myopic to the development process of a player. They are only interested in the bottom line results. They are angry and irrational, and a % of them will secretly (whether knowingly or not) hope that the Niners fail if for no other reason to see #11's downfall.

4) Pseudo expert: This person is somehow convinced that he or she is all-knowing. They are certain that they have mad-skillz as a talent evaluator, pro-draft scout, GM, etc. and that they can see what everyone else can not. So, while they may admit enough to see the slightest glimmers in #11, they are now convinced that he can never raise his game higher than the average/below average level. No matter how hard #11 tries.... no matter what talent or consistency is added around him... nope, never gonna be good enough. This person has probably deluded himself into thinking he doesn't mix in with some of the above ^ types of haters... but there's been mixing.

Come on, a pop psuedo psychology character studying doesn't provide any real insight into a persons motives. I stated plainly that I'm on this thread to challenge the holy trinity of Alex Smith excuses that 1) He never had talent around him 2) He had bad coaching 3) Injury all contributed to his lack of professional success.

I sought to and have managed to bring down the tone of this thread that the "sky is the limit" for Alex Smith, to one that's more realistic. Yeah, it's obnoxious, irritating and sometimes extreme, but so is the pompom waving, rose colored glasses, and blind faith support for Alex Smith.

Ya know I take a big picture view on Alex Smith. He isn't a Hall of Fame QB, great, but if he was then the team wouldn't have been able to collect it's present talent.
Case in point, if he had managed to eek out 1 or 2 more wins in 2006 the team wouldn't have been able to draft Patrick Willis. So in the long run maybe his initial underperformance is a blessing.

As is, I think he's a mid level QB, there's nothing wrong with that. I think he can make it to the playoffs, but the real issue is can he come through in the big moments?

As pretentious as this sounds, this isn't about attention getting behavior, but being a gadfly attacking irrational group think. Alex Smith supporters become unhinged when confronted with dissenting views and and get personal very quickly whether through crude vulgarities or with inane psychobabble. All the while you still haven't made a credible case as to why he'll have a successful season or reach a higher level of play.

What more is there to debate? You argue the future using absolutes. Others give you stats showing that he has improved each time he has been given a chance. Odds are that he will improve once again this upcoming season given the countless reasons re-hashed over and over in this thread. I think you are beyond any convincing. He is the starting QB for the 49ers 2010.

Step away from the soapbox

Okay let's talk about those stats.

60% completion 2,000 plus yards 18 tds 12 ints 5-5 records. 2 of the wins came against the Lions and Rams. 6 of the tds came in the second half loss of blow outs 1 , 300 yds game came in a road loss against Seattle, in 2 wins against Chicago & Az he had ratings in the 40's & 50's.

The stats look good, but they weren't accumulated in a way that lead to team success. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by HomerJ:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:
Wow this is what it's come to homerism and hate. I'm loving the whines of "this is a pro-Smith thread gtfo if you don't agree!", homophobic bating, and childish profanity. I don't know about you but the f word is blase, sadly I'm not even shocked any more when it comes out the mouth of a 8 year old.

As a nonsupporter of Alex Smith, even I'll allow for the possibility that he'll make it to the playoffs and get accolades in the form of a Pro Bowl invite. You don't have to be a Hall of Famer to accomplish that.

But in confirming why I've taken up residency on this thread, the pro-Smith fans continue to freak out when confronted with a dissenting view point. All the while they still can't make a credible argument as to why he's our "franchise" QB.

The bolded is the problem with your line of thinking. You don't have to like him or think he is anything close to resembling a good quarterback, but the very definition of being a fan entails that you should support him.

I can grasp the notion that you don't believe in Alex Smith and accordingly you wish we had a different guy taking the snaps:

But we don't. Alex Smith is the quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers, you can hate it, love it, or be indifferent, the fact remains the same. Not supporting Alex when the team's success so clearly hinges on his play, really calls into question what exactly do you support?

Because if you support the 49ers then you have to want (and some may even need) Alex Smith to do well. You can't root for the Niners and not root for #11 the teams success is too dependent on his success, and the sooner you can make your peace with that the better you will be.

So, while you may not believe, you had better hope like the rest of us; lest of course you had rather be proven right than see the team win. And if that's the case I would strongly suggest that you review the definition for the word "fan".

A lot of great posts throughout, but this one made me particularly proud.

Something I typed out this morning... might be garbage, but whatever... it's what I do while drinking my 1st cup o java.... v

All of the haters have their collective arse covered.

Why? Because they can win either way.

- If Alex does well and we win football games, they were proven wrong... but their favorite team is winning, so WIN for them!

- If Alex does poorly and we lose football games, though the team losses suck, at least joy can be found in puffing out their e-chests and saying "told ya so"... so WIN for them!

So the typical Alex-hater belongs in 1 of these groups:

1) Attention-seeker: Someone who doesn't much care one way or the other about #11, but enjoys being negative because it sends responses his way. He or she is a lonely soul, and is the type to spawn-camp or use other cheats in video games just to ruin your experience and have people yelling at you. They want attention and they don't care which form it comes in.

2) Cowardly Nancy: Someone who had been hoping for a while that #11 could be our savior, but has since lost all hope. This person refuses to put his emotions and trust back out there, for fear that any possible future letdowns will be too painful too endure.

3) Bitter Soul: This person either immediately hated the #11 selection, or quickly came to resent #11 thereafter. This person is very impatient, spoiled, and myopic to the development process of a player. They are only interested in the bottom line results. They are angry and irrational, and a % of them will secretly (whether knowingly or not) hope that the Niners fail if for no other reason to see #11's downfall.

4) Pseudo expert: This person is somehow convinced that he or she is all-knowing. They are certain that they have mad-skillz as a talent evaluator, pro-draft scout, GM, etc. and that they can see what everyone else can not. So, while they may admit enough to see the slightest glimmers in #11, they are now convinced that he can never raise his game higher than the average/below average level. No matter how hard #11 tries.... no matter what talent or consistency is added around him... nope, never gonna be good enough. This person has probably deluded himself into thinking he doesn't mix in with some of the above ^ types of haters... but there's been mixing.

Come on, a pop psuedo psychology character studying doesn't provide any real insight into a persons motives. I stated plainly that I'm on this thread to challenge the holy trinity of Alex Smith excuses that 1) He never had talent around him 2) He had bad coaching 3) Injury all contributed to his lack of professional success.

I sought to and have managed to bring down the tone of this thread that the "sky is the limit" for Alex Smith, to one that's more realistic. Yeah, it's obnoxious, irritating and sometimes extreme, but so is the pompom waving, rose colored glasses, and blind faith support for Alex Smith.

Ya know I take a big picture view on Alex Smith. He isn't a Hall of Fame QB, great, but if he was then the team wouldn't have been able to collect it's present talent.
Case in point, if he had managed to eek out 1 or 2 more wins in 2006 the team wouldn't have been able to draft Patrick Willis. So in the long run maybe his initial underperformance is a blessing.

As is, I think he's a mid level QB, there's nothing wrong with that. I think he can make it to the playoffs, but the real issue is can he come through in the big moments?

As pretentious as this sounds, this isn't about attention getting behavior, but being a gadfly attacking irrational group think. Alex Smith supporters become unhinged when confronted with dissenting views and and get personal very quickly whether through crude vulgarities or with inane psychobabble. All the while you still haven't made a credible case as to why he'll have a successful season or reach a higher level of play.

What more is there to debate? You argue the future using absolutes. Others give you stats showing that he has improved each time he has been given a chance. Odds are that he will improve once again this upcoming season given the countless reasons re-hashed over and over in this thread. I think you are beyond any convincing. He is the starting QB for the 49ers 2010.

Step away from the soapbox

Okay let's talk about those stats.

60% completion 2,000 plus yards 18 tds 12 ints 5-5 records. 2 of the wins came against the Lions and Rams. 6 of the tds came in the second half loss of blow outs 1 , 300 yds game came in a road loss against Seattle, in 2 wins against Chicago & Az he had ratings in the 40's & 50's.

The stats look good, but they weren't accumulated in a way that lead to team success. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

Peyton manning played the Jags twice this year - the same Jags Smith picked apart. He also played St louis once, the same team Smith picked apart. Maybe Mannings stats are also skewed? Oh, and Aaron Rodgers?? Detroit twice a year. Not to mention St Louis and Cleveland. Drew Brees you ask? just got to pad his stats beating up on Detroit, St Louis and also TB twice a year.

The almighty Jay Cutler threw 5 picks against SF. While Manning was held to 0 TDS agains SF.

See, it's easy to put a spin on stats.

Originally posted by HomerJ:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by HomerJ:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:
Wow this is what it's come to homerism and hate. I'm loving the whines of "this is a pro-Smith thread gtfo if you don't agree!", homophobic bating, and childish profanity. I don't know about you but the f word is blase, sadly I'm not even shocked any more when it comes out the mouth of a 8 year old.

As a nonsupporter of Alex Smith, even I'll allow for the possibility that he'll make it to the playoffs and get accolades in the form of a Pro Bowl invite. You don't have to be a Hall of Famer to accomplish that.

But in confirming why I've taken up residency on this thread, the pro-Smith fans continue to freak out when confronted with a dissenting view point. All the while they still can't make a credible argument as to why he's our "franchise" QB.

The bolded is the problem with your line of thinking. You don't have to like him or think he is anything close to resembling a good quarterback, but the very definition of being a fan entails that you should support him.

I can grasp the notion that you don't believe in Alex Smith and accordingly you wish we had a different guy taking the snaps:

But we don't. Alex Smith is the quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers, you can hate it, love it, or be indifferent, the fact remains the same. Not supporting Alex when the team's success so clearly hinges on his play, really calls into question what exactly do you support?

Because if you support the 49ers then you have to want (and some may even need) Alex Smith to do well. You can't root for the Niners and not root for #11 the teams success is too dependent on his success, and the sooner you can make your peace with that the better you will be.

So, while you may not believe, you had better hope like the rest of us; lest of course you had rather be proven right than see the team win. And if that's the case I would strongly suggest that you review the definition for the word "fan".

A lot of great posts throughout, but this one made me particularly proud.

Something I typed out this morning... might be garbage, but whatever... it's what I do while drinking my 1st cup o java.... v

All of the haters have their collective arse covered.

Why? Because they can win either way.

- If Alex does well and we win football games, they were proven wrong... but their favorite team is winning, so WIN for them!

- If Alex does poorly and we lose football games, though the team losses suck, at least joy can be found in puffing out their e-chests and saying "told ya so"... so WIN for them!

So the typical Alex-hater belongs in 1 of these groups:

1) Attention-seeker: Someone who doesn't much care one way or the other about #11, but enjoys being negative because it sends responses his way. He or she is a lonely soul, and is the type to spawn-camp or use other cheats in video games just to ruin your experience and have people yelling at you. They want attention and they don't care which form it comes in.

2) Cowardly Nancy: Someone who had been hoping for a while that #11 could be our savior, but has since lost all hope. This person refuses to put his emotions and trust back out there, for fear that any possible future letdowns will be too painful too endure.

3) Bitter Soul: This person either immediately hated the #11 selection, or quickly came to resent #11 thereafter. This person is very impatient, spoiled, and myopic to the development process of a player. They are only interested in the bottom line results. They are angry and irrational, and a % of them will secretly (whether knowingly or not) hope that the Niners fail if for no other reason to see #11's downfall.

4) Pseudo expert: This person is somehow convinced that he or she is all-knowing. They are certain that they have mad-skillz as a talent evaluator, pro-draft scout, GM, etc. and that they can see what everyone else can not. So, while they may admit enough to see the slightest glimmers in #11, they are now convinced that he can never raise his game higher than the average/below average level. No matter how hard #11 tries.... no matter what talent or consistency is added around him... nope, never gonna be good enough. This person has probably deluded himself into thinking he doesn't mix in with some of the above ^ types of haters... but there's been mixing.

Come on, a pop psuedo psychology character studying doesn't provide any real insight into a persons motives. I stated plainly that I'm on this thread to challenge the holy trinity of Alex Smith excuses that 1) He never had talent around him 2) He had bad coaching 3) Injury all contributed to his lack of professional success.

I sought to and have managed to bring down the tone of this thread that the "sky is the limit" for Alex Smith, to one that's more realistic. Yeah, it's obnoxious, irritating and sometimes extreme, but so is the pompom waving, rose colored glasses, and blind faith support for Alex Smith.

Ya know I take a big picture view on Alex Smith. He isn't a Hall of Fame QB, great, but if he was then the team wouldn't have been able to collect it's present talent.
Case in point, if he had managed to eek out 1 or 2 more wins in 2006 the team wouldn't have been able to draft Patrick Willis. So in the long run maybe his initial underperformance is a blessing.

As is, I think he's a mid level QB, there's nothing wrong with that. I think he can make it to the playoffs, but the real issue is can he come through in the big moments?

As pretentious as this sounds, this isn't about attention getting behavior, but being a gadfly attacking irrational group think. Alex Smith supporters become unhinged when confronted with dissenting views and and get personal very quickly whether through crude vulgarities or with inane psychobabble. All the while you still haven't made a credible case as to why he'll have a successful season or reach a higher level of play.

What more is there to debate? You argue the future using absolutes. Others give you stats showing that he has improved each time he has been given a chance. Odds are that he will improve once again this upcoming season given the countless reasons re-hashed over and over in this thread. I think you are beyond any convincing. He is the starting QB for the 49ers 2010.

Step away from the soapbox

Okay let's talk about those stats.

60% completion 2,000 plus yards 18 tds 12 ints 5-5 records. 2 of the wins came against the Lions and Rams. 6 of the tds came in the second half loss of blow outs 1 , 300 yds game came in a road loss against Seattle, in 2 wins against Chicago & Az he had ratings in the 40's & 50's.

The stats look good, but they weren't accumulated in a way that lead to team success. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

Peyton manning played the Jags twice this year - the same Jags Smith picked apart. He also played St louis once, the same team Smith picked apart. Maybe Mannings stats are also skewed? Oh, and Aaron Rodgers?? Detroit twice a year. Not to mention St Louis and Cleveland. Drew Brees you ask? just got to pad his stats beating up on Detroit, St Louis and also TB twice a year.

The almighty Jay Cutler threw 5 picks against SF. While Manning was held to 0 TDS agains SF.

See, it's easy to put a spin on stats.

How about putting up a break down of a season of their stats against Alex Smith. With the exception of Jay Cutler, it'll show that the QBs you mentioned performed more consistenly against better competition.

For example look at Brees dismantling of the Pats. How did POeyton fair against the Titans? Under simple scrutiny his stats from last year don't hold up. So the argument that he'll do better this year because of last years numbers falls flat on it's face as well.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by mrgneissguy:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by mrgneissguy:

Here’s a question to the Alex Smith supporters who think anyone that doubts him is a hater secretly hoping the team fails to prove a point. What about the other players on the team? With your arguments in favor of Smith, you basically say that the WRs are not good enough (too many dropped balls), the offensive line is not good enough (don’t give him enough time), the coaches are not good enough (the play calling was too predictable and forced him into too many 3rd and long situations), and the front office isn’t good enough (haven’t given him any consistency to work with).

Your arguments are fair and valid when you disrespect the entire organization

- Any a$$ clown can see and know that the organization has failed on many fronts to develop this QB. That isn't being disloyal or disrespectful of the organization. That's just calling it like it is, and everybody knows it. They didn't mean for it to happen, but it went down that way all the same.

- We can regard our receivers as good and talented while at the same time acknowledging that they need to do a better job of catching the ball... especially at crucial game moments.

- It has taken the coaching and personnel upgrades quite some time to improve to an acceptable level... which is the same time period that the QB is improving to a level that can help generate a non-losing record. Coincidence? Me thinks not. A developing QB can not succeed without good players and coaching... consistent coaching... around him. That's just the way it is. It would be one thing if we were speaking about the lazy, unmotivated JaMarcus Russell.... but we are not. We are talking about a QB that does 100% to do his part. Finally, the offense around him seems to be able and willing to do theirs.

- There could very well be a double standard when a fan states absolutes about Nate Davis, yet then bitc*es because someone else says the same about Alex. That to me would be a double standard and therefore a no-no. I can only speak for myself to say I don't do that.

I'm not arguing the validity of the organization's failures. I'm not saying that those things didn't happen. I'm asking how those statements you just made are any different in regards to your loyalty to the team than statements by others who think that Alex Smith may not be a good enough QB to get the Niners to where we want them to be? I might say Alex Smith hasn't lived up to expectations and you say I want the team to fail. You say that the organization hasn't lived up to expectations...wouldn't it be reasonable for me to say you also want the team to fail? Personally I don't think you do want the team to fail, no more than I want the team to fail. I fail to see the difference between those two situations.

You do recognize that I make no such claim that every or even most fans that feel Smith is not good enough want him to fail.... right?

I do believe that there are a handful on each 49er site that DO hope he fails though. Nothing on Earth would convince me otherwise, after all I have read through the years. You are trying to correlate two very different things here.

One group thinks the reason Smith hasn’t lived up to expectations is his own failing, the other group thinks the reason Smith hasn’t lived up to expectations is the team’s failing. Yep, two completely different things. But the underlying idea or question is the same…why has Alex Smith not lived up to expectations? Yet anyone that questions Smith is a hater that falls into one of your derogatory categories.

I could argue that a Smith Hater is more loyal and more reasonable than the Smith Lover. The Smith Lover is hating on 5+ players on the offensive line, several wide receivers (if not the entire WR corps), the coaches, and the front office; and probably the defense for not getting enough 3 and outs and the special teams for giving Alex poor field position. How dare you!!! You must support all of those people no matter what. Otherwise you aren’t a true fan. Any a** clown can see that.

I apologize though, as this really is off topic from the thread. I am not trying to start any kind of argument. I am simply trying to point out that too many folks that strongly support Smith generalize anyone that doesn’t think he’s “the guy” as uneducated idiots with no football knowledge and no common sense. Honestly, I’ve seen a lot of “You must be hanging from Smith’s nuts” comments from the other side too, which I also find annoying. Both sides of the argument have their individuals of less than stellar IQ, I’m sure. But I also see a lot of well thought out and intelligent posts being castigated for no apparent reason other than they differ from what somebody else “knows”. Regardless of your intentions, your categories do just that.

To attempt to be on topic…I think Alex Smith is a fine quarterback. I think he can be a very good quarterback, but he isn’t there yet, I think he should be there by now, and I am worried about how long it will take him to get there. I think his lack of meeting expectations is a combination of his own shortcomings, and the team’s shortcomings over his career. I think a great quarterback can overcome a lot of the team’s shortcomings, though (but not all), and I think the QB you want is one that makes the players around him play better, and not one that needs the team to help him play better. I think that while Smith has shown improvements, I worry about the rate of improvement and wonder how long does an organization wait until they move on? I do not wish for Alex or the team to fail, and I do not think he will fail. I think Alex will improve again this year. I worry that the improvement will not be significant though, still leaving a lot of questions and doubt. I hope that he flips the switch and gets it this year, and goes out and plays very well, removing all doubt about whether or not the Niners should extend his contract. I think that based on his past performance, there is enough doubt that I would like to see the coaches and organization working on a contingency plan, whether that be keeping an eye on free agency (not what I’d prefer) or spending more time with Davis and Carr so the coaches have a better idea of their capabilities and readiness. And while I'm not calling for competition for the #1 QB spot, I strongly believe that the player that performs the best should be the player on the field come game day, even if that player is an undrafted free agent over a number one pick. Right now, I think the best player at QB is Alex Smith. I am not convinced yet, that he'll be the best QB on the roster this time next year, but that's a discussion for then and not now.

I think that what I have been reading in the snippets about the OTAs has me cautiously optimistic with our QB situation all the way around. Smith is taking charge, being a leader (which hopefully turns into making players around him better), and looks sharp. I’ve not seen a lot of info about Carr’s performance so far in OTAs, but it appears that Nate Davis is also looking sharp. So not only is there the possibility that Smith is finally making that leap, but we might have at least one other QB on the roster looking good in case something happens to Smith. This could be a very good year, which leads to a bright future.

I am confused. Are you trying to prove your opinion that stats, specifically Smith's, are flawed and misleading by using..... more stats?


Let's just agree to disagree on this. I don't plan on getting off the wagon, and I don't see you getting on the wagon. The pieces are in place, this is Smith's year to prove he is the QB of the future or not. But based on his improvement in just about every category since '05, the odds are in his corner, IMO.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:
Wow this is what it's come to homerism and hate. I'm loving the whines of "this is a pro-Smith thread gtfo if you don't agree!", homophobic bating, and childish profanity. I don't know about you but the f word is blase, sadly I'm not even shocked any more when it comes out the mouth of a 8 year old.

As a nonsupporter of Alex Smith, even I'll allow for the possibility that he'll make it to the playoffs and get accolades in the form of a Pro Bowl invite. You don't have to be a Hall of Famer to accomplish that.

But in confirming why I've taken up residency on this thread, the pro-Smith fans continue to freak out when confronted with a dissenting view point. All the while they still can't make a credible argument as to why he's our "franchise" QB.

The bolded is the problem with your line of thinking. You don't have to like him or think he is anything close to resembling a good quarterback, but the very definition of being a fan entails that you should support him.

I can grasp the notion that you don't believe in Alex Smith and accordingly you wish we had a different guy taking the snaps:

But we don't. Alex Smith is the quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers, you can hate it, love it, or be indifferent, the fact remains the same. Not supporting Alex when the team's success so clearly hinges on his play, really calls into question what exactly do you support?

Because if you support the 49ers then you have to want (and some may even need) Alex Smith to do well. You can't root for the Niners and not root for #11 the teams success is too dependent on his success, and the sooner you can make your peace with that the better you will be.

So, while you may not believe, you had better hope like the rest of us; lest of course you had rather be proven right than see the team win. And if that's the case I would strongly suggest that you review the definition for the word "fan".

A lot of great posts throughout, but this one made me particularly proud.

Something I typed out this morning... might be garbage, but whatever... it's what I do while drinking my 1st cup o java.... v

All of the haters have their collective arse covered.

Why? Because they can win either way.

- If Alex does well and we win football games, they were proven wrong... but their favorite team is winning, so WIN for them!

- If Alex does poorly and we lose football games, though the team losses suck, at least joy can be found in puffing out their e-chests and saying "told ya so"... so WIN for them!

So the typical Alex-hater belongs in 1 of these groups:

1) Attention-seeker: Someone who doesn't much care one way or the other about #11, but enjoys being negative because it sends responses his way. He or she is a lonely soul, and is the type to spawn-camp or use other cheats in video games just to ruin your experience and have people yelling at you. They want attention and they don't care which form it comes in.

2) Cowardly Nancy: Someone who had been hoping for a while that #11 could be our savior, but has since lost all hope. This person refuses to put his emotions and trust back out there, for fear that any possible future letdowns will be too painful too endure.

3) Bitter Soul: This person either immediately hated the #11 selection, or quickly came to resent #11 thereafter. This person is very impatient, spoiled, and myopic to the development process of a player. They are only interested in the bottom line results. They are angry and irrational, and a % of them will secretly (whether knowingly or not) hope that the Niners fail if for no other reason to see #11's downfall.

4) Pseudo expert: This person is somehow convinced that he or she is all-knowing. They are certain that they have mad-skillz as a talent evaluator, pro-draft scout, GM, etc. and that they can see what everyone else can not. So, while they may admit enough to see the slightest glimmers in #11, they are now convinced that he can never raise his game higher than the average/below average level. No matter how hard #11 tries.... no matter what talent or consistency is added around him... nope, never gonna be good enough. This person has probably deluded himself into thinking he doesn't mix in with some of the above ^ types of haters... but there's been mixing.

I am a hater. I somewhat agree with your post, of course there is always different ways to look at things.

If I had to choose I would say I fall into the Pseudo Expert category. One problem with that description though. You say us Pseudo Experts claim to see something negative about Alex Smith that nobody else sees!!! Well allow me to put a label on supporters like yourself than. DELUSIONAL. Not about thinking Alex Smith is going to turn out to be good, but for the apparent fact you actually believe the Critics are the minority. LOL. Outside of 49er land the majority of educated fans, so called experts and media have for the most part given Alex Smith bad grades and not very high expectations.

So what exactly am I claiming to be so much smarter than EVERYBODY else about?

I think I have merely not convinced myself to abandon the popular speculation just because I am a Niner fan.

And mind you, the popular opinion has ALWAYS been against Alex Smith. Even the majority of the draft experts described the 2005 class as not having a QB worthy of a 1.1 pick.

So if not being lost in a sea of denial and taking the blatantly obvious for what it is makes me a wanna be pseudo expert.....so be it

250!!!!! Dammit...next time

Originally posted by Nes49:
250!!!!!

Quote:
Skinny_Post (Phil Barber): Alex Smith looked crisp for most part, spotting pressure and getting ball out when he needed to.

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by HomerJ:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:
Wow this is what it's come to homerism and hate. I'm loving the whines of "this is a pro-Smith thread gtfo if you don't agree!", homophobic bating, and childish profanity. I don't know about you but the f word is blase, sadly I'm not even shocked any more when it comes out the mouth of a 8 year old.

As a nonsupporter of Alex Smith, even I'll allow for the possibility that he'll make it to the playoffs and get accolades in the form of a Pro Bowl invite. You don't have to be a Hall of Famer to accomplish that.

But in confirming why I've taken up residency on this thread, the pro-Smith fans continue to freak out when confronted with a dissenting view point. All the while they still can't make a credible argument as to why he's our "franchise" QB.

The bolded is the problem with your line of thinking. You don't have to like him or think he is anything close to resembling a good quarterback, but the very definition of being a fan entails that you should support him.

I can grasp the notion that you don't believe in Alex Smith and accordingly you wish we had a different guy taking the snaps:

But we don't. Alex Smith is the quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers, you can hate it, love it, or be indifferent, the fact remains the same. Not supporting Alex when the team's success so clearly hinges on his play, really calls into question what exactly do you support?

Because if you support the 49ers then you have to want (and some may even need) Alex Smith to do well. You can't root for the Niners and not root for #11 the teams success is too dependent on his success, and the sooner you can make your peace with that the better you will be.

So, while you may not believe, you had better hope like the rest of us; lest of course you had rather be proven right than see the team win. And if that's the case I would strongly suggest that you review the definition for the word "fan".

A lot of great posts throughout, but this one made me particularly proud.

Something I typed out this morning... might be garbage, but whatever... it's what I do while drinking my 1st cup o java.... v

All of the haters have their collective arse covered.

Why? Because they can win either way.

- If Alex does well and we win football games, they were proven wrong... but their favorite team is winning, so WIN for them!

- If Alex does poorly and we lose football games, though the team losses suck, at least joy can be found in puffing out their e-chests and saying "told ya so"... so WIN for them!

So the typical Alex-hater belongs in 1 of these groups:

1) Attention-seeker: Someone who doesn't much care one way or the other about #11, but enjoys being negative because it sends responses his way. He or she is a lonely soul, and is the type to spawn-camp or use other cheats in video games just to ruin your experience and have people yelling at you. They want attention and they don't care which form it comes in.

2) Cowardly Nancy: Someone who had been hoping for a while that #11 could be our savior, but has since lost all hope. This person refuses to put his emotions and trust back out there, for fear that any possible future letdowns will be too painful too endure.

3) Bitter Soul: This person either immediately hated the #11 selection, or quickly came to resent #11 thereafter. This person is very impatient, spoiled, and myopic to the development process of a player. They are only interested in the bottom line results. They are angry and irrational, and a % of them will secretly (whether knowingly or not) hope that the Niners fail if for no other reason to see #11's downfall.

4) Pseudo expert: This person is somehow convinced that he or she is all-knowing. They are certain that they have mad-skillz as a talent evaluator, pro-draft scout, GM, etc. and that they can see what everyone else can not. So, while they may admit enough to see the slightest glimmers in #11, they are now convinced that he can never raise his game higher than the average/below average level. No matter how hard #11 tries.... no matter what talent or consistency is added around him... nope, never gonna be good enough. This person has probably deluded himself into thinking he doesn't mix in with some of the above ^ types of haters... but there's been mixing.

Come on, a pop psuedo psychology character studying doesn't provide any real insight into a persons motives. I stated plainly that I'm on this thread to challenge the holy trinity of Alex Smith excuses that 1) He never had talent around him 2) He had bad coaching 3) Injury all contributed to his lack of professional success.

I sought to and have managed to bring down the tone of this thread that the "sky is the limit" for Alex Smith, to one that's more realistic. Yeah, it's obnoxious, irritating and sometimes extreme, but so is the pompom waving, rose colored glasses, and blind faith support for Alex Smith.

Ya know I take a big picture view on Alex Smith. He isn't a Hall of Fame QB, great, but if he was then the team wouldn't have been able to collect it's present talent.
Case in point, if he had managed to eek out 1 or 2 more wins in 2006 the team wouldn't have been able to draft Patrick Willis. So in the long run maybe his initial underperformance is a blessing.

As is, I think he's a mid level QB, there's nothing wrong with that. I think he can make it to the playoffs, but the real issue is can he come through in the big moments?

As pretentious as this sounds, this isn't about attention getting behavior, but being a gadfly attacking irrational group think. Alex Smith supporters become unhinged when confronted with dissenting views and and get personal very quickly whether through crude vulgarities or with inane psychobabble. All the while you still haven't made a credible case as to why he'll have a successful season or reach a higher level of play.

What more is there to debate? You argue the future using absolutes. Others give you stats showing that he has improved each time he has been given a chance. Odds are that he will improve once again this upcoming season given the countless reasons re-hashed over and over in this thread. I think you are beyond any convincing. He is the starting QB for the 49ers 2010.

Step away from the soapbox

Okay let's talk about those stats.

60% completion 2,000 plus yards 18 tds 12 ints 5-5 records. 2 of the wins came against the Lions and Rams. 6 of the tds came in the second half loss of blow outs 1 , 300 yds game came in a road loss against Seattle, in 2 wins against Chicago & Az he had ratings in the 40's & 50's.

The stats look good, but they weren't accumulated in a way that lead to team success. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

he got us back into those games in the second half w2e have most dropped passes in the nfl we wouldve beat seattle if VD and Crabs didnt drop passes and the gore fumble we wouldve beat houston if we didnt fumble any of those punts. We were a trick play away from winning against the colts also the fact that peyton converted so many 3rd down plays the D could never get off the field

250!!!!!! Right here

Originally posted by Nes49:
250!!!!!! Right here

FAIL.

bump

250?