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Whatis McCloughan doing?

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He's an idiot. Just overrated on this board. People make lots of excuses for him because they want to feel like we are moving in the right direction. But he has been rebuilding for years and years and we aren't better from a talent standpoint.

It scares me to death this guy will be responsible for 2 1st round picks next year. My guess is he will pick 2 Guards who can't block and yet again we will be no better off.

You know what to do, since you obviously know so much more about football than McCloughan, polish up your surely impressive resume and send it on in.

I'm sure Jed would fire Scot and hire you in a hot second...

no kidding. What a joke, all these armchair GMs.

And anyone who doesn't think we're more talented now than in 2004 is a f**king moron.

Are we more talented?

~ No pass rush.
~ No franchise QB. A bust wasted #1 pick.
~ No offensive line still after years and years of picking O linemen.
~ No WR's.
~ Big Safety problems.
~ No KR / PR.
~ No depth at RB.

Yeah we are so much more talented after years and years of wasted picks.
When Martz was our OC last year did we have 5 WR's ??

Now that we have an OC that wants to run the ball more , now we have 7 ......WTF ??

I'm still bummed we lost Kory Sheets.
Originally posted by ninerempire25:
When Martz was our OC last year did we have 5 WR's ??

Now that we have an OC that wants to run the ball more , now we have 7 ......WTF ??

I'm still bummed we lost Kory Sheets.

He doesn't know what he is doing. Neither does Singletary. Neither does SILVER SPOON JED YORKIE.
Originally posted by elguapo:
The main reason why was b/c Gore is a lock at starter and Coffee was a lock as backup. Same with Davis and Walker.

Also, since we do not have a #1 WR we needed all of them hoping 1 of them would emerge as a number 1 or close to it. I know i was hoping that Hill or Jones could be a #1 and to keep them. I know what you mean though. Battle and Spurlock should of been an obvious cut, but then again for WHAT??? A third TE or 4th RB that has little chance of anything but a third permanently.

I was in agreement with this approach only because we are set at rb and TE without anyone else and Not at all set at WR...that's how you should try to look at it

Exactly WR is a position in transition Crabtree/Jones are new. Bruce and Battle are on their way out Hill/Morgan are stuck in the middle. Next year the WR position will be settled w/MC/JM/BJ/JH i don't know WTF we're doing w/Spurlock please tell me were not keeping him for the taser.
Coffee tore it up in the PS and played way better than Sheets the coaches have come right out and said the guy can't block or play ST and you need to do that to be in the NFL and I have no problem with letting him go.
Rossum was taking up a spot as an old man KR that does nothing else and wasn't playing well. We have lots of KR/PR options with Walker/Battle/Morgan/Clements/Bly/Robinson/Crabtree that have all returned kicks before and I do not blame Sott Mac for cutting him at all. The decision to go with Walker/Battle is Sing's decision and it's not on SM.
[ Edited by matt49er on Oct 24, 2009 at 10:56 PM ]
Since when is our depth at TE a problem?
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by ninerempire25:
When Martz was our OC last year did we have 5 WR's ??

Now that we have an OC that wants to run the ball more , now we have 7 ......WTF ??

I'm still bummed we lost Kory Sheets.

He doesn't know what he is doing. Neither does Singletary. Neither does SILVER SPOON JED YORKIE.

He's practically always on the phone to Uncle Eddie.

This is a fhysical team. 7 wide receivers are needed to ensure that 110% fhysicality is applied to the opposing teams by the wide receiver position.

Kore Sheet doesn't know how to apply the fhysicalilty necessary to the running back position.
[ Edited by IDontGetNaked on Oct 24, 2009 at 11:25 PM ]
Originally posted by IDontGetNaked:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by ninerempire25:
When Martz was our OC last year did we have 5 WR's ??

Now that we have an OC that wants to run the ball more , now we have 7 ......WTF ??

I'm still bummed we lost Kory Sheets.

He doesn't know what he is doing. Neither does Singletary. Neither does SILVER SPOON JED YORKIE.

He's practically always on the phone to Uncle Eddie.

This is a fhysical team. 7 wide receivers are needed to ensure that 110% fhysicality is applied to the opposing teams by the wide receiver position.

Kore Sheet doesn't know how to apply the fhysicalilty necessary to the running back position.

Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by E-49er:
Originally posted by mississippi_sam:
What upsets me most is that we are so thin at RB and TE. Also, I think Rossum was our best return man, and that we should have kept him and let Jason Hill or Michael Spurlock go instead, especially after signing Crabtree.

I feel like McCloughan has not made the right personnel choices at times, and quite frankly has left many of us scratching our heads.

Look at our team's offensive philosophy:

Hard nosed running between the tackles, ball control, safe passes.
Mostly 2RB, 2WR sets. Some 2TE sets. Very few 3WR sets.

Now look at our personnel.

3RBs (Including MROB who really is exclusively a special teams player)
1FB
2TEs
7WRs (What?)

What's going on here? Kory Sheets was let go (and not that he ever proved anything, but he did show a little promise). Didn't we have 4 TEs back in July? Pascoe and another guy who was playing better than Pascoe? We cut 2 of our 4 TEs in favor of keeping all these WRs?

And on the defensive side of things, we have 7 D-Linemen for our 3-4 defense (not sure if that's the norm). We also have 10DBs, including 5 safeties and 5 corners (not including Walt Harris)(not sure if that's the norm either).

But I am certain of this:

2 RBs (I exclude MROB) and 2TEs is just plain WRONG for this type of offensive philosophy.

I thought a GM is supposed to build a depth chart based on the team's philosophy. Maybe he isn't sold on the philosophy. Heck I don't know what's going on.

Trust me I'm not a huge McCloughan fan but everything you are referring to sounds like coaching decisions which is not Scotts responisbility.

Cutting 2 TE is not scotts call
Keeping 7 WR is not scotts call

Basically all the personnell decisions that you are referring to ultimately is Singletary's call. It looks like he kept who he feels the best 53 are regardless of position.

PErsonally I agree we should have 3 TE and kept only 5 WR six MAx. I also feel we should have not released Rossum and that Spurlock should have been released if anyone(that appeared to be Sings call too). If we keep 5 WR we would have been able to carry an extra OL and still carry 3 TE.

My problem with Scott is that he has not done anything to improve the QB or OL positions in the past 4 years. I want results tommorrow.Hill needs to step it up orgive way to Alex or Davis or soemone that is going to be productive at the position. Right now the way Hill looks, Arnaz Battle and Michael robinson would be a better fit.

I'm thinking a long the lines of 5 receivers and an extra OL and RB. Keeping with the Running game theme...

YEah I could see that working. I said TE because we only have 2 TE and Delanie isnt the best blocker at that position.

Hey "E", did you put anything down in Vagas on the odds of the Niners making the playoffs? What are the odds?

No I didn't place any bets. I used to bet alot on football when I first moved here and lost alot of money and have not bet in large amounts since. the only time I bet now is for the superbowl and its maybe 1 or 2 parlays and thats it. Wish I could tell you the odds but Idk. Sorry bro.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by mississippi_sam:
What upsets me most is that we are so thin at RB and TE. Also, I think Rossum was our best return man, and that we should have kept him and let Jason Hill or Michael Spurlock go instead, especially after signing Crabtree.

I feel like McCloughan has not made the right personnel choices at times, and quite frankly has left many of us scratching our heads.

Look at our team's offensive philosophy:

Hard nosed running between the tackles, ball control, safe passes.
Mostly 2RB, 2WR sets. Some 2TE sets. Very few 3WR sets.

Now look at our personnel.

3RBs (Including MROB who really is exclusively a special teams player)
1FB
2TEs
7WRs (What?)

What's going on here? Kory Sheets was let go (and not that he ever proved anything, but he did show a little promise). Didn't we have 4 TEs back in July? Pascoe and another guy who was playing better than Pascoe? We cut 2 of our 4 TEs in favor of keeping all these WRs?

And on the defensive side of things, we have 7 D-Linemen for our 3-4 defense (not sure if that's the norm). We also have 10DBs, including 5 safeties and 5 corners (not including Walt Harris)(not sure if that's the norm either).

But I am certain of this:

2 RBs (I exclude MROB) and 2TEs is just plain WRONG for this type of offensive philosophy.

I thought a GM is supposed to build a depth chart based on the team's philosophy. Maybe he isn't sold on the philosophy. Heck I don't know what's going on.

Be careful, there are a lot of McCloughan apologists here. You can incur the wrath of the McCloughanites who are convinced he walks on water. Well maybe that's true relative to Terry Donahue, but when you compare McCloughan with other team's progress throughout the league you begin to ask questions. I was going to cite facts, articles and other analysis by MM and others around the NFL but in the end those who know what's up don't need to be convinced. It would be a futile exercise. Just like there are good GMs out there, there are mediocre and even bad ones. IMHO, I think we have a below average GM.

Although I think your analysis here are more coaching decisions, I was one who believed last March the stated target personnel issues would be addressed:

Pass-Rush
OL
WR
Safety

You'll immediately hear how there were no FA available, etc. However, it's just interesting to me - again comparing the 49ers to other teams around the league - seem to address their needs through creative means but we always seem to be on the outside looking in.

The off-season decisions that were made - Brandon Jones (ask any Tennessee fan, he was injury prone prior to signing) , Marvel Smith (coming off of a number of back surgeries), and standing pat and trying to say Jimmy Williams "was big enough (and talented enough) for safety", and thinking Manny Lawson was a bona fide pass-rusher despite never showing that ability during his entire career here.

So why sign players projected to be starters with a history of being injury-prone? That's where the questions begin about talent acquisition. I could talk about the draft, etc.

The 49ers will become a better team when we can have both a GM and a Director of Player Personnel, where the GM has real authority with the coaching and ultimately can vet personnel decisions. Few men can, as Parcells would say "buy the groceries" for the dinner but that's a very rare group in the NFL these days. If league trends mean anything, organizations are moving AWAY from this model, not to it. Few teams give their coaches, especially new head coaches, total control over the organization either in name or in effect.

I agree. I can't believe how satisfied people are with the crappy job McCloughan's done. I saw how Walsh and McVay ran a winning organization and this is not it. Not even close.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He's an idiot. Just overrated on this board. People make lots of excuses for him because they want to feel like we are moving in the right direction. But he has been rebuilding for years and years and we aren't better from a talent standpoint.

It scares me to death this guy will be responsible for 2 1st round picks next year. My guess is he will pick 2 Guards who can't block and yet again we will be no better off.

Iv'e seen plenty of fire Mccloughan threads on this board so I don't understand how he is overrated. If being 3-0 in the division isn't in the right direction of where we have been then Im not sure what the right direction is.

And not better from a talent standpoint? Are you serious? Was Mike Rumph a starter in the secondary not to long ago. He wouldn't even make the team, not to mention we have arguably the best mlb in the league one of the better LB core's in the league. If he takes to O lineman in the draft no one on this board should be complaining about it.
Originally posted by ninerempire25:
When Martz was our OC last year did we have 5 WR's ??

Now that we have an OC that wants to run the ball more , now we have 7 ......WTF ??

I'm still bummed we lost Kory Sheets.

Yeah, we really didn't have to carry Battle and Spurlock. We let Battle play out his contract and Spurlock had added value in Taser packages.

I'm 99% sure that we won't be carrying 7 WRs next year, so what's the issue?

-9fA
Originally posted by redmanc07:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He's an idiot. Just overrated on this board. People make lots of excuses for him because they want to feel like we are moving in the right direction. But he has been rebuilding for years and years and we aren't better from a talent standpoint.

It scares me to death this guy will be responsible for 2 1st round picks next year. My guess is he will pick 2 Guards who can't block and yet again we will be no better off.

Iv'e seen plenty of fire Mccloughan threads on this board so I don't understand how he is overrated. If being 3-0 in the division isn't in the right direction of where we have been then Im not sure what the right direction is.

And not better from a talent standpoint? Are you serious? Was Mike Rumph a starter in the secondary not to long ago. He wouldn't even make the team, not to mention we have arguably the best mlb in the league one of the better LB core's in the league. If he takes to O lineman in the draft no one on this board should be complaining about it.

We have not gotten much better after years and years of rebuilding. Lots of missed draft picks.
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by ninerempire25:
When Martz was our OC last year did we have 5 WR's ??

Now that we have an OC that wants to run the ball more , now we have 7 ......WTF ??

I'm still bummed we lost Kory Sheets.

Yeah, we really didn't have to carry Battle and Spurlock. We let Battle play out his contract and Spurlock had added value in Taser packages.

I'm 99% sure that we won't be carrying 7 WRs next year, so what's the issue?

-9fA

The issue is we could have kept a 3 TE and another OL instead of Spurlock and Battle or a TE and RB like Sheets.Why occupy a roster spot with 2 extra WR when you are not going to use the guys?
Originally posted by E-49er:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by ninerempire25:
When Martz was our OC last year did we have 5 WR's ??

Now that we have an OC that wants to run the ball more , now we have 7 ......WTF ??

I'm still bummed we lost Kory Sheets.

Yeah, we really didn't have to carry Battle and Spurlock. We let Battle play out his contract and Spurlock had added value in Taser packages.

I'm 99% sure that we won't be carrying 7 WRs next year, so what's the issue?

-9fA

The issue is we could have kept a 3 TE and another OL instead of Spurlock and Battle or a TE and RB like Sheets.Why occupy a roster spot with 2 extra WR when you are not going to use the guys?

Well McCloughan so badly misfired on Pascoe that he wasn't even put on the practice squad. We wouldn't have taken 3 TEs anyway.

OL, Boone is still on the PS and nobody has picked him up. Marvel Smith might have made it but he decided to retire.

As you can see, the other positions almost sorted themselves out.

It's obvious that the coaches aren't very high on Sheets like the fanbase is. Even when Gore went down, we still didn't bring him up. Judging by that action itself, he wasn't the 54th man imo.

-9fA
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He's an idiot. Just overrated on this board. People make lots of excuses for him because they want to feel like we are moving in the right direction. But he has been rebuilding for years and years and we aren't better from a talent standpoint.

It scares me to death this guy will be responsible for 2 1st round picks next year. My guess is he will pick 2 Guards who can't block and yet again we will be no better off.

You know what to do, since you obviously know so much more about football than McCloughan, polish up your surely impressive resume and send it on in.

I'm sure Jed would fire Scot and hire you in a hot second...

no kidding. What a joke, all these armchair GMs.

And anyone who doesn't think we're more talented now than in 2004 is a f**king moron.

Are we more talented?

~ No pass rush.
~ No franchise QB. A bust wasted #1 pick.
~ No offensive line still after years and years of picking O linemen.
~ No WR's.
~ Big Safety problems.
~ No KR / PR.
~ No depth at RB.

Yeah we are so much more talented after years and years of wasted picks.

I don't normally agree with your very negative outlook but I have to agree on:

Pass rush ------ constantly neglected and we are still waiting for any improvement to this unit from our drafts. This is another glaring miss by McCloughan.

QB ------ still an issue at this point. Hill and Smith just don't appear tobe answer. I will admit to being bit curious about the addition of Davis and if he will make any kind of an impact or not.

Offensive Line ------ This is where I think that McCloughan has fumbled and fumbled and fumbled. This has been the main reason the offense has been rated so poorly every year. I know some will point to lack of talent but if this group had been good the offense would have been more productive. Just to many sacks and hits on the QB's period. He has been too cheap to pay for good OG's.
[ Edited by 49ERwhiner on Oct 25, 2009 at 1:44 AM ]