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Hills' Leash

Can Shaun Hill bullet a ball to a receiver?
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,133
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Can Shaun Hill bullet a ball to a receiver?

A lot of strong armed crap QB's that are out of this league can.
  • ptw1
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 128
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Or when our QB has more rushing yards than our RB.

Misleading stat. Hill took off (rightfully so) because Atlanta was playing soft.

Kind of like those delayed handoffs you see on 3rd and 15 to pad those running stats.

-9fA

Of course, I know that. But the fact of the matter is, its tough on a QB when there is no running game.

And it's hard to have a running game when the QB doesn't scare anyone. Hill must play better and then everything else will follow.

Sure bout that??

2003 Ravens - Jamal Lewis rushed for 2,000 plus yards with a terrible QB rotation

2004 Redskins - Clinton Portis rushed for 1,300 plus yards with a crappy QB rotation

2006 49ers - Frank Gore rushed for 1,700 yards

Its not that hard to realize that the O-line is a huge part of the offenses problems.

Yeah, of course. OL is a big reason for it, but everything goes hand-in-hand. Gore had 1,695 yards in 2006. That year we had a good running game and Alex Smith had his best season. Gore hasn't come close to that total since, and the OL has a lot to do with it, but so does the QB. I guarantee that if teams respected the pass more, our run game would improve.

Also, look at the RBs you mentioned. Those are some good backs. But I think it's pretty obvious that both our OL and QB must play better, and that will help out our running game.

Sure Gore had 1,695 yards rushing and Smith had his career best that year, but Smith also had bad games and we atleast played out the season with him. Its been only one bad lost with Hill, why is everyone jumping ship now??

The ability of any QB to go down the field helps keep defenses honest. Yep, even if the QB is not entirely accurate and throws a few picks here and there, that ability will still keep a defense more honest than what Shaun Hill has showed this season. Even bad QBs have the ability to make a play down the field and defenses have to account for that, no matter how many picks they may throw. With Shaun Hill they don't, it's pretty simple.

You act is as if Hill is unable to go down field, our pass protection has been horrible. Sure if he has time has been known to pull it down or checkdown. But tell me, how do you know what hes seeing down field, do you have any game tape or coaches tape to back this up??? I can show you many times last year, where he made a nice 20 yard out vs. Arizona in between two defenders. Or a nice deep ball to Vernon Davis a couple of times last year. Again, Hill's inability to throw a deep comeback, hitch or deep in's and out route's are his biggest weaknesses, Hill will take it deep when the time is right. I don't see how you people continue to overlook the O-line and put the QB ahead as the main problem....just boggles me.

Ummmm Kolohe? He did that in ONE game. And that was against the Same Ol Sorry @$$ Defense. And he had the benefit of a 21 point cushion provided by the Defense, no less.

IF and when he does it consistently I'm more apt to be on board. But it's not happening any time soon, given the rest of our Schedule.

~Ceadder

Ummm Ceadder I'm talking about last year.

I was editing when you replied. If you go back you'll see I addressed that too.

~Ceadder

LOL last year is a wash. Fact still remains he made deep passes last year and is capable of doing so. Regardless of who it was against he played the cards he was dealt.

That is the biggest mistake people make when talking about Hill. Whether or not a qb can throw the deep ball is bs. Thinking arm strength is just throwing the ball far is foolish. Much more important is hitting the 2o yard out pass or zipping the ball in the seam between a zone. That is the issue with Hill. And whether anyone thinks Davis or Smith is good is irrelevant. The goal is to win championships. Just making the playoffs or competeing for a playoff spot is a loser's mentality. Hill appears to be a great guy and is a very good backup. But he has no chance at being a super bowl winning qb. That's not a knock on Hill. If the choice is going 9-7 with Hill and getting bump in the first round of playoffs or going 6-10 and seeing if Davis/Smith have potential, i'll choose 6-10. We're not a championship level team now. Smith is a 25 year old former #1 pick who was decent over his last 12 starts. Davis, till the last month of his college season, was thought to be a 2nd round pick. With some many holes on the team, how can people think about investing a high pick in a QB w/o seeing what we have now?
Originally posted by ptw1:

That is the biggest mistake people make when talking about Hill. Whether or not a qb can throw the deep ball is bs. Thinking arm strength is just throwing the ball far is foolish. Much more important is hitting the 2o yard out pass or zipping the ball in the seam between a zone. That is the issue with Hill. And whether anyone thinks Davis or Smith is good is irrelevant. The goal is to win championships. Just making the playoffs or competeing for a playoff spot is a loser's mentality. Hill appears to be a great guy and is a very good backup. But he has no chance at being a super bowl winning qb. That's not a knock on Hill. If the choice is going 9-7 with Hill and getting bump in the first round of playoffs or going 6-10 and seeing if Davis/Smith have potential, i'll choose 6-10. We're not a championship level team now. Smith is a 25 year old former #1 pick who was decent over his last 12 starts. Davis, till the last month of his college season, was thought to be a 2nd round pick. With some many holes on the team, how can people think about investing a high pick in a QB w/o seeing what we have now?

Another smart poster over here... if this keeps up, I'd have to make this my permanent residence.
Hill doesn't block pass rushers or carry the ball 20 times for a 2 yard gain or fail to get separation from the DBs covering them. Take off the leash and let him throw the ball, then make a decision.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Can Shaun Hill bullet a ball to a receiver?

A lot of strong armed crap QB's that are out of this league can.

Arm strength is hugely overrated in judging QBs, but it's nice to be able to complete passes greater than 15 yards once in awhile too.
Originally posted by 4JusticeNow:
Hill doesn't block pass rushers or carry the ball 20 times for a 2 yard gain or fail to get separation from the DBs covering them. Take off the leash and let him throw the ball, then make a decision.

I think the "leash" isn't meant as in restricting his playing but rather if he continues to play poorly he will get benched
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well I like what Martz said about Schaub and i pertain that to Hill as well, or whichever Qb we have in the backfield, and he said, "Elite QB's make the throws and the best plays when they are under duress". When he highlighted the Schaub video, he had guys almost constantly in his face at times, faster then when hill does, but he gets that ball down the field, accurately, to whomever he has open, whether the short ball, or the long ball, in which schaub's case it's the 20-30yd pass regularly.

Just wanted to add to your above point. Figure I posted this next part, but it's indelibly burned into my brain, and talking about it eases my pain...

Quote:
Shaun Hill = Plays under pressure - 49 - 36.4 % completion - 133 yds - 4.0 avr. - 1TD/1 INT - 16 sacks - QB rating 46.7

Matt Schaub = Plays under pressure - 63 - 50.0 % completion - 399 yds -7.7 avr. 2 TD/2 INT - 8 sacks - QB Rating 72.5

http://profootballfocus.com/by_team.php?tab=by_team&season=2009&teamid=28&stats=&gameid=
Originally posted by ptw1:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Or when our QB has more rushing yards than our RB.

Misleading stat. Hill took off (rightfully so) because Atlanta was playing soft.

Kind of like those delayed handoffs you see on 3rd and 15 to pad those running stats.

-9fA

Of course, I know that. But the fact of the matter is, its tough on a QB when there is no running game.

And it's hard to have a running game when the QB doesn't scare anyone. Hill must play better and then everything else will follow.

Sure bout that??

2003 Ravens - Jamal Lewis rushed for 2,000 plus yards with a terrible QB rotation

2004 Redskins - Clinton Portis rushed for 1,300 plus yards with a crappy QB rotation

2006 49ers - Frank Gore rushed for 1,700 yards

Its not that hard to realize that the O-line is a huge part of the offenses problems.

Yeah, of course. OL is a big reason for it, but everything goes hand-in-hand. Gore had 1,695 yards in 2006. That year we had a good running game and Alex Smith had his best season. Gore hasn't come close to that total since, and the OL has a lot to do with it, but so does the QB. I guarantee that if teams respected the pass more, our run game would improve.

Also, look at the RBs you mentioned. Those are some good backs. But I think it's pretty obvious that both our OL and QB must play better, and that will help out our running game.

Sure Gore had 1,695 yards rushing and Smith had his career best that year, but Smith also had bad games and we atleast played out the season with him. Its been only one bad lost with Hill, why is everyone jumping ship now??

The ability of any QB to go down the field helps keep defenses honest. Yep, even if the QB is not entirely accurate and throws a few picks here and there, that ability will still keep a defense more honest than what Shaun Hill has showed this season. Even bad QBs have the ability to make a play down the field and defenses have to account for that, no matter how many picks they may throw. With Shaun Hill they don't, it's pretty simple.

You act is as if Hill is unable to go down field, our pass protection has been horrible. Sure if he has time has been known to pull it down or checkdown. But tell me, how do you know what hes seeing down field, do you have any game tape or coaches tape to back this up??? I can show you many times last year, where he made a nice 20 yard out vs. Arizona in between two defenders. Or a nice deep ball to Vernon Davis a couple of times last year. Again, Hill's inability to throw a deep comeback, hitch or deep in's and out route's are his biggest weaknesses, Hill will take it deep when the time is right. I don't see how you people continue to overlook the O-line and put the QB ahead as the main problem....just boggles me.

Ummmm Kolohe? He did that in ONE game. And that was against the Same Ol Sorry @$$ Defense. And he had the benefit of a 21 point cushion provided by the Defense, no less.

IF and when he does it consistently I'm more apt to be on board. But it's not happening any time soon, given the rest of our Schedule.

~Ceadder

Ummm Ceadder I'm talking about last year.

I was editing when you replied. If you go back you'll see I addressed that too.

~Ceadder

LOL last year is a wash. Fact still remains he made deep passes last year and is capable of doing so. Regardless of who it was against he played the cards he was dealt.

That is the biggest mistake people make when talking about Hill. Whether or not a qb can throw the deep ball is bs. Thinking arm strength is just throwing the ball far is foolish. Much more important is hitting the 2o yard out pass or zipping the ball in the seam between a zone. That is the issue with Hill. And whether anyone thinks Davis or Smith is good is irrelevant. The goal is to win championships. Just making the playoffs or competeing for a playoff spot is a loser's mentality. Hill appears to be a great guy and is a very good backup. But he has no chance at being a super bowl winning qb. That's not a knock on Hill. If the choice is going 9-7 with Hill and getting bump in the first round of playoffs or going 6-10 and seeing if Davis/Smith have potential, i'll choose 6-10. We're not a championship level team now. Smith is a 25 year old former #1 pick who was decent over his last 12 starts. Davis, till the last month of his college season, was thought to be a 2nd round pick. With some many holes on the team, how can people think about investing a high pick in a QB w/o seeing what we have now?

Not everyone seems to understand this aspect of arm strength, it has never really been a question of whether or not Hill can get the ball 20+ yards down the field, all that talk is hyperbole. He just cannot throw a spiral consistently or with enough zip to get the ball in the passing window. I think this is why he hasn't been throwing the ball to the wideouts as much as he should be, he is scared of hanging one up for the db to get to.
  • 9ermj
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Can Shaun Hill bullet a ball to a receiver?

A lot of strong armed crap QB's that are out of this league can.

It's not even the fact that Hill's arm is a joke, he chucks it up like it's a shot put, and yes there are lots of strong arm Qb's who are lousy Qb's because they don't have all the tools to be a good Qb , Hill has tools just no arm, he's a mediocre Qb with a piece of string cheese for an arm add it all up , you get Jamarcus Russell and at least Russell has potential to be decent someday, Hill's someday is now.This is as good as it's going to get after 7 years in the NFL. Enjoy!
I am sure that he will turn the game around. I bet he makes the Fedex Air Player of the week. And Gore will make the Fedex Ground.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Can Shaun Hill bullet a ball to a receiver?

A lot of strong armed crap QB's that are out of this league can.



Afrikan,is that you?
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Can Shaun Hill bullet a ball to a receiver?

A lot of strong armed crap QB's that are out of this league can.
Well I'm just wondering because with Crabtrees catching ability I think it would be beneficial for our QB to be able to bullet a pass in so that the chances of it being intercepted are super low.
Originally posted by 4JusticeNow:
Hill doesn't block pass rushers or carry the ball 20 times for a 2 yard gain or fail to get separation from the DBs covering them. Take off the leash and let him throw the ball, then make a decision.



Tell that to Josh Morgan who's been wide open a few times this season and Hill just flat out misses him.


Excuses.....

Originally posted by Mospeed:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Can Shaun Hill bullet a ball to a receiver?

A lot of strong armed crap QB's that are out of this league can.
Well I'm just wondering because with Crabtrees catching ability I think it would be beneficial for our QB to be able to bullet a pass in so that the chances of it being intercepted are super low.

Ducks can't fly that fast