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I don't understand why everyone wants Hill benched

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
We will all disagree on who should start but can we all agree that both Hill and Smith stink?

I don't care at this point

Hill can throw short and not turn the ball over constantly (unless its tipped or something) From what I saw he can't throw the ball down the field accurately near the sideline and his week arm gives the defenders time to make a play cause the ball takes a long time to get there

Alex Smith will do stupid things

Davis is a rookie


I don't know who the hell i want to play
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
We will all disagree on who should start but can we all agree that both Hill and Smith stink?


Can't even agree on that one. With Turner, Smith was good. With Martz, Hill was good. I'm going to go ahead and believe that the problem is coaching, specifically, Jimmy Raye. Why is it the defense played so much better after Nolan was fired, yet it was the same group of guys? Answer: coaching.

We're being outplayed and outcoached.
Originally posted by 9ermj:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Also all you people saying that Smith is more athletic and better than Hill than why didn't he win the starting job? If he was that good he would have easily beat out Hill for the starting job.

Athleticism? Let's look at rushing stats...

Shaun Hill has averaged 4.3 yards per carry when rushing
Alex Smith has averaged 3.9 yards per carry

Shaun Hill has 3 rushing TDs in 17 games played
Alex Smith has 2 rushing TDs in 31 games played

When your arm is the consistency of Top Ramen , maybe running it in is a better option , and it will get to the endzone faster, He 's the only Qb who can throw a bomb to himself.

It's a funny line, but I am interested in the actual real nuts & bolts here. I am not a huge fan of Hill, or a Smith hater.

I am just looking for someone to back up some of the claims that Smith is a better alternative. It seems quite often people are making claims that don't jive with how I remember them. Then I go look up stats, and confirm I am remembering things correctly.
Originally posted by RonMexico:
I don't care at this point

Hill can throw short and not turn the ball over constantly (unless its tipped or something) From what I saw he can't throw the ball down the field accurately near the sideline and his week arm gives the defenders time to make a play cause the ball takes a long time to get there

Alex Smith will do stupid things

Davis is a rookie


I don't know who the hell i want to play


These things work themselves out. Hill will have to sit if he is the reason our offense is struggling. So far I have yet to hear any expert or even some local writer call out Hill for missing wide open receivers or just bone head plays. We know the writers around the bay area love to point out the negatives. If Hill keeps taking hits the way he has been, you can expect to see Smith in there soon. Davis will only enter the game when all hope has been lost for the season.
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
We will all disagree on who should start but can we all agree that both Hill and Smith stink?


Can't even agree on that one. With Turner, Smith was good. With Martz, Hill was good. I'm going to go ahead and believe that the problem is coaching, specifically, Jimmy Raye. Why is it the defense played so much better after Nolan was fired, yet it was the same group of guys? Answer: coaching.

We're being outplayed and outcoached.

I'm not going to go as far as say they both stink as much as I don't believe either one is our future. I believe Raye is a problem but we are most likely stuck with him. Our only hope is to fix the Oline. Over the past couple of years we haven't been able to apply much pressure to the other teams QBs. Our defense used to make 2nd teir QBs look like probowlers. Thats why we need to get the run game and pass protection schemes right. So we can make our 2nd teir QBs look good.
Originally posted by RonMexico:
I don't care at this point

Hill can throw short and not turn the ball over constantly (unless its tipped or something) From what I saw he can't throw the ball down the field accurately near the sideline and his week arm gives the defenders time to make a play cause the ball takes a long time to get there

Alex Smith will do stupid things

Davis is a rookie


I don't know who the hell i want to play

exactly how I feel
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Also all you people saying that Smith is more athletic and better than Hill than why didn't he win the starting job? If he was that good he would have easily beat out Hill for the starting job.

Athleticism? Let's look at rushing stats...

Shaun Hill has averaged 4.3 yards per carry when rushing
Alex Smith has averaged 3.9 yards per carry

Shaun Hill has 3 rushing TDs in 17 games played
Alex Smith has 2 rushing TDs in 31 games played


If you watched them play you can tell Shaun is slower. Just because he averages .4 more YPC in fewer attempts doesn't change that. Alex has twice as many rushing attempts as Shaun did, and in 07 he was averaging 6.8 YPC. He was turning into a guy who was pretty good at using his feet. Sorry but Shaun looks like a mess out there.

The 6.8 in 2007 was only over 13 attempts. Pretty small a sampling size for rushing. That is why looked at the average over total games played.

I suppose we can forget using the term "more athletic", because that is too general & could be debated until the end of time. What I can tell from watching is Smith may be faster, but is not as decisive in knowing when to run for a 1st down as Hill is.
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
After one bad game by Hill and his 1st loss at home I don't understand why everyone wants Singletary to bench Hill. Most of you people want Alex Smith to come in but what about all the bad years Smith gave us and Hill has ONE bad game and you guys want him benched.

One bad game, are you kidding? Every game for Hill is a bad game. He mananges one drive a game that results in points and all the Hill lovers think he is clutch. He is nothing more than a pie chucking, bar league QB, that has no business being a starter on an NFL team.

Oh yeah and i forgot Smith has been Great every game he's ever played in...the only good game Smith ever had was the one against the Seahawks when we came back and won other than that Smith shouldn't even be in this league

In that case, neither should Hill.

Quit changing the standards for the two quarterbacks. If you're going to judge one by a certain set of criteria, judge the other by the same set.

Hill has had better games than Hill and this guy just simply WINS! at the end of the day that's all that matters right? you can't say the same for smith and this guy was the 1st overall pick

Hill has had better games than Hill? What?

If you're so bent on Hill being the quarterback for this team, then I guess you're happy with the 45-10 beating we took, since that's going to keep happening every time we need a quarterback to throw us to a win.

I'm confident Hill will rebound from this game and have a great game against the texans


A great game? What? Passing for a whopping 180 yards? A nice healthy average of 6.5 yards per pass? Maybe 1 touchdown? Yeah, that's a great game.

I don't understand how anyone can be happy with that. When Smith put up those numbers, people were pissed. Yet, Hill can do it and everyone is happy?

Do you really like Captain Wounded Duck's throws? Do you really think they look good?

Jesus. You people don't expect much from our team.


Oh man, that one wounded duck that hit Morgan in the chest inbetween two defenders for a touchdown...that was really horrible, really embarrassing it wasn't a tight spiral........SHAUN HILL IS A WINNER!!! ALEX SMITH IS NOT!!!!! Smith was a complete crap quarterback and shouldn't even be in the NFL, he would have 10 picks by now and we would be 1-4....if you think Smith is our answer get your head checked, I'm not saying Hill is the third coming but he wins most of his games and should be playing in the short term.

.. Smith protected the ball very well as far as interceptions as he grew as a player -- If you're judging his skewed stats because of the horrendous rookie year, stop. He had a fine second year going and before he got hurt in 2007, he had thrown only one interception.

10 picks? Seriously. Stop.

I think the fact of the matter is, Hill can't do any more than Smith can, and I really don't believe Smith brings us any less than Hill does. I don't doubt for a second that Smith could bring us wins just as well if he were in the games now.

I don't want Hill benched yet, but I wouldn't care at all if he was.

Which Alex Smith year are you talking about?

Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2005 SFO 9 84 165 50.9 875 5.3 1 47 11 40.8
2006 SFO 16 257 442 58.1 2890 6.5 16 75 16 74.8
2007 SFO 7 94 193 48.7 914 4.7 2 45 4 57.2
Career 32 435 800 54.4 4679 5.8 19 75 31 63.5

I bolded my statements so maybe it'd be a little more clear.

Look at the game logs. (In 2006, also recall we had the 26th ranked defense. We couldn't stop anyone. We couldn't make stops to get our offense on the field, other opponents ate up T.O.P.)

Smith had a good start to 2006. As a 21 year old in starting his first full season as a starter... Through six weeks, he was 109/183 (60%) for 1285 yards (214.17 yards/game) with 8 TDs, 4 INT, 1 FL.

We would've hoped for a better finish, but still, everyone was very excited for Alex. Then in 2007, we lost Turner right before the season started (Gee, look how well teams like Tampa Bay and Kansas City, who fired their OCs in training camp, are doing now?)

Those are just two little pieces of support to the argument that Alex could easily succeed if given the chance. He can hand off the ball just as well as Hill. He can also thread the needle and pass deep, unlike Hill. He's more mobile, too.

This all points to an answer to the statement made by the original poster -- Why do some people want Hill benched? Because they know Alex has talent and brings us an element of arm strength that Hill lacks. Alex has played well before, so they feel he could do it again.

The 2009 Regular Season Alex Smith is unknown. He'll have to play for that unknown to become known. With Hill's bad game, and poor statistical output, this has fans questioning and desiring to find out what Alex can show us if he were to play.

Hey, I'd like to see Alex too, but I'll give Hill at least a chance to redeem himself. If, with changes and an extra week to prepare, he still can't -- no excuses. The bench could await, and I'd be fine with that decision then.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 13, 2009 at 16:03:15 ]
  • NickV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,560
Our offensive line needs to be benched lol
Because he throws ducks. Maybe it's not the quarterback though, nor the receivers. What we need are retrievers. If all he throws are ducks, then we need to sign a couple of these guys, pronto.




Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
After one bad game by Hill and his 1st loss at home I don't understand why everyone wants Singletary to bench Hill. Most of you people want Alex Smith to come in but what about all the bad years Smith gave us and Hill has ONE bad game and you guys want him benched.

One bad game, are you kidding? Every game for Hill is a bad game. He mananges one drive a game that results in points and all the Hill lovers think he is clutch. He is nothing more than a pie chucking, bar league QB, that has no business being a starter on an NFL team.

Oh yeah and i forgot Smith has been Great every game he's ever played in...the only good game Smith ever had was the one against the Seahawks when we came back and won other than that Smith shouldn't even be in this league

In that case, neither should Hill.

Quit changing the standards for the two quarterbacks. If you're going to judge one by a certain set of criteria, judge the other by the same set.

Hill has had better games than Hill and this guy just simply WINS! at the end of the day that's all that matters right? you can't say the same for smith and this guy was the 1st overall pick

Hill has had better games than Hill? What?

If you're so bent on Hill being the quarterback for this team, then I guess you're happy with the 45-10 beating we took, since that's going to keep happening every time we need a quarterback to throw us to a win.

I'm confident Hill will rebound from this game and have a great game against the texans


A great game? What? Passing for a whopping 180 yards? A nice healthy average of 6.5 yards per pass? Maybe 1 touchdown? Yeah, that's a great game.

I don't understand how anyone can be happy with that. When Smith put up those numbers, people were pissed. Yet, Hill can do it and everyone is happy?

Do you really like Captain Wounded Duck's throws? Do you really think they look good?

Jesus. You people don't expect much from our team.


Oh man, that one wounded duck that hit Morgan in the chest inbetween two defenders for a touchdown...that was really horrible, really embarrassing it wasn't a tight spiral........SHAUN HILL IS A WINNER!!! ALEX SMITH IS NOT!!!!! Smith was a complete crap quarterback and shouldn't even be in the NFL, he would have 10 picks by now and we would be 1-4....if you think Smith is our answer get your head checked, I'm not saying Hill is the third coming but he wins most of his games and should be playing in the short term.

.. Smith protected the ball very well as far as interceptions as he grew as a player -- If you're judging his skewed stats because of the horrendous rookie year, stop. He had a fine second year going and before he got hurt in 2007, he had thrown only one interception.

10 picks? Seriously. Stop.

I think the fact of the matter is, Hill can't do any more than Smith can, and I really don't believe Smith brings us any less than Hill does. I don't doubt for a second that Smith could bring us wins just as well if he were in the games now.

I don't want Hill benched yet, but I wouldn't care at all if he was.

Which Alex Smith year are you talking about?

Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2005 SFO 9 84 165 50.9 875 5.3 1 47 11 40.8
2006 SFO 16 257 442 58.1 2890 6.5 16 75 16 74.8
2007 SFO 7 94 193 48.7 914 4.7 2 45 4 57.2
Career 32 435 800 54.4 4679 5.8 19 75 31 63.5

I bolded my statements so maybe it'd be a little more clear.

Look at the game logs. (In 2006, also recall we had the 26th ranked defense. We couldn't stop anyone. We couldn't make stops to get our offense on the field, other opponents ate up T.O.P.)

Smith had a good start to 2006. As a 21 year old in starting his first full season as a starter... Through six weeks, he was 109/183 (60%) for 1285 yards (214.17 yards/game) with 8 TDs, 4 INT, 1 FL.

We would've hoped for a better finish, but still, everyone was very excited for Alex. Then in 2007, we lost Turner right before the season started (Gee, look how well teams like Tampa Bay and Kansas City, who fired their OCs in training camp, are doing now?)

Those are just two little pieces of support to the argument that Alex could easily succeed if given the chance. He can hand off the ball just as well as Hill. He can also thread the needle and pass deep, unlike Hill. He's more mobile, too.

This all points to an answer to the statement made by the original poster -- Why do some people want Hill benched? Because they know Alex has talent and brings us an element of arm strength that Hill lacks. Alex has played well before, so they feel he could do it again.

The 2009 Regular Season Alex Smith is unknown. He'll have to play for that unknown to become known. With Hill's bad game, and poor statistical output, this has fans questioning and desiring to find out what Alex can show us if he were to play.

Hey, I'd like to see Alex too, but I'll give Hill at least a chance to redeem himself. If, with changes and an extra week to prepare, he still can't -- no excuses. The bench could await, and I'd be fine with that decision then.

One of the reason we had a bad defense was because they were always on the field. The 49ers were ranked 26 on 3rd down percentages that year. This was with Gore running for over 1500 yards. But like you said we still have to see what Hill does next week before any changes are made.
  • Blitz
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,858
Neither one of them are the answer. This team needs a QB, that is the long term answer. Hill is nothing but a stop gap. The franchise knows this. Smith will have to wait till the stars align for him. Which may be never. I'm fairly confident Sing ain't waiting on him.

Right now Davis is the future. If we wanted a third string QB we would have not kept Davis because we already had a good third stringer on the roster. If we wanted (thought) Hill or Smith to be the long term answer, we wouldn't have drafted him in the first place.

The writing is on the wall...either Smith or Hill is going. Judging from how quick he picks up the game, and how tenuous both Hill and Smith's (past) job security as a starter is, Davis is probably going to be starting as soon as next year. The only question will be who will be the number two.

I have nothing against Hill, but he is not the long term answer and his job security (right or wrong) is weak.

That's the hand we have been dealt, and it's not going to change, IMHO.
Originally posted by NickV:
Our offensive line needs to be benched lol

Agreed
  • 9ermj
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by 9ermj:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Also all you people saying that Smith is more athletic and better than Hill than why didn't he win the starting job? If he was that good he would have easily beat out Hill for the starting job.

Athleticism? Let's look at rushing stats...

Shaun Hill has averaged 4.3 yards per carry when rushing
Alex Smith has averaged 3.9 yards per carry

Shaun Hill has 3 rushing TDs in 17 games played
Alex Smith has 2 rushing TDs in 31 games played

When your arm is the consistency of Top Ramen , maybe running it in is a better option , and it will get to the endzone faster, He 's the only Qb who can throw a bomb to himself.

It's a funny line, but I am interested in the actual real nuts & bolts here. I am not a huge fan of Hill, or a Smith hater.

I am just looking for someone to back up some of the claims that Smith is a better alternative. It seems quite often people are making claims that don't jive with how I remember them. Then I go look up stats, and confirm I am remembering things correctly.

I agree stats wise things look bad for Smith, however they can also be deceiving he threw 11 picks and 1 td his rookie year, he did it he owns it , but at 21 years old I'm willing to give him a break given the circumstances and that team.That'll scue things a bit. I'm not saying he's my hero but , by all accounts he didn't do enough to beat out Hill but it was supposedly close if that's the case I go with the 25yr old coming off two shoulder surgeries who MAY get better vs a hack journeyman who scraps and clawed to get some wins but has clearly maxed out his talent , it's just an opinion, one of a million posited everyday here. I actually think right now you can't yank Hill , he hasn't played well and on Sunday it didn't matter who was in there. But with as bad as the line is it's hard to tell what they can get done.