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Offensive Solutions

I think it's safe to say that there is plenty of frustration, with the 49ers offense this season.

Fair enough.

Anyone can point out a problem, but that doesn't solve it. So, what are the solutions?

Fans can call for the heads of Singletary, Raye, or the players, however, nobody is going anywhere this year. We have who we have, and the question is, what can be done to best utilize what we have?

Personally I feel Singletary's approach of a ball control offense, is what best fits the personell we have. We simply don't have the talent at the QB, OL, or WR positions to open the offense up too much, without expecting a dramatic increase in turnovers. Our defense is good, but if they are on the field the whole game they will tire, and be less effective.

Now, while I agree with the general approach of the offense, I think the playcalling leaves much to be desired.

I think one of the things that needs to happen in order for the passing game to improve, is that Shaun Hill needs to get the ball to Vernon Davis more. Davis has been our most consistent reciever this year, and he needs to get the ball more. It's something that IS working for this offense, so I'm not sure why we get away from it. He will make a couple of plays and then doesn't have another pass thrown his way for 2 quarters. That needs to change in my view.

The other thing I think that may be helpful, is to have Davis, and Delaine Walker line up outside or in the slot. Davis is a talented guy, and Walker can be a dangerous reciever, but I'm not sold that they are being in used in a way that makes them most effective.

Giving the opposing defense some different looks and other options to think about, could very well help the running game. If Davis lines up at TE but then motions out to the slot, or out wide, he now has a linebacker covering him in space. That's a great matchup for us. Teams are going to have to account for those things being possible, but only if we start to actually do it.

I also think we need to start running off tackle more. The pulling and trapping for inside runs is simply not getting it done. So why not start running some splys where you allow the FB to lead to the outside, and give the RB some options as to which way he is going to cut? Some sweeps and shovel passes(like the one to Coffee today) would be nice too.

I think thus far, our running game has been so predictable, and that is what is making it easy to stop for the most part.

Again, in general, I think the ball control conservative offense is what fits our talent best. What I do think needs to change though, is the creativity of the playcalling.

Your thoughts?
  • NP9er
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 161
Maybe some QUICK 3 and 5 step drops/slants/swing passes. Gee what does that remind me of?
The whole team sucked today that's for sure. What we can't do is panic and try and change everything, remember we're 1 play from being a 4-1 team right now, we're 3-0 in our division. Going into today our D was ranked #6 overall, with Gore our running game was good, VD is playing very well and Crabtree just signed and B.Jones is now healthy. We have alot of good things going for us. During this bye week we need to watch alot of film, coach needs to do alot of butt kicking and we need to get back to basics because what happened today was an unprepared team played uninspired football and got crushed then they gave up. we need to tinker with some things yes, mainly we need to focus on our OL, getting Gore back into the lineup, getting the D to play up to their capabilities and get Crabtree ready ASAP.
  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,284
We need to throw more to Vernon Davis.
Well, I think this is gonna get merged, but I will reply anyways...

I think one of our main problems is that we are wayyyy too predictable. I also feel that we run small variations on 4-5 plays, and a very limited playbook. I would love to see more tosses, flea-flickers, play actions, create route running.

We are also not playing sound football. Hill is missing open recievers, and our recievers are dropping balls. We are also not adjusting to blitzes very well at all, nor are we changing anything up at half time. In case nobody has noticed, we are not a running team. Our running yards are abysmal without those two huge runs. Our average is not respectable either.
Originally posted by 49erFan:
I think it's safe to say that there is plenty of frustration, with the 49ers offense this season.

Fair enough.

Anyone can point out a problem, but that doesn't solve it. So, what are the solutions?

Fans can call for the heads of Singletary, Raye, or the players, however, nobody is going anywhere this year. We have who we have, and the question is, what can be done to best utilize what we have?

Personally I feel Singletary's approach of a ball control offense, is what best fits the personell we have. We simply don't have the talent at the QB, OL, or WR positions to open the offense up too much, without expecting a dramatic increase in turnovers. Our defense is good, but if they are on the field the whole game they will tire, and be less effective.

Now, while I agree with the general approach of the offense, I think the playcalling leaves much to be desired.

I think one of the things that needs to happen in order for the passing game to improve, is that Shaun Hill needs to get the ball to Vernon Davis more. Davis has been our most consistent reciever this year, and he needs to get the ball more. It's something that IS working for this offense, so I'm not sure why we get away from it. He will make a couple of plays and then doesn't have another pass thrown his way for 2 quarters. That needs to change in my view.

The other thing I think that may be helpful, is to have Davis, and Delaine Walker line up outside or in the slot. Davis is a talented guy, and Walker can be a dangerous reciever, but I'm not sold that they are being in used in a way that makes them most effective.

Giving the opposing defense some different looks and other options to think about, could very well help the running game. If Davis lines up at TE but then motions out to the slot, or out wide, he now has a linebacker covering him in space. That's a great matchup for us. Teams are going to have to account for those things being possible, but only if we start to actually do it.

I also think we need to start running off tackle more. The pulling and trapping for inside runs is simply not getting it done. So why not start running some splys where you allow the FB to lead to the outside, and give the RB some options as to which way he is going to cut? Some sweeps and shovel passes(like the one to Coffee today) would be nice too.

I think thus far, our running game has been so predictable, and that is what is making it easy to stop for the most part.

Again, in general, I think the ball control conservative offense is what fits our talent best. What I do think needs to change though, is the creativity of the playcalling.

Your thoughts?

You summed it up pretty well right there. Not sure how to fix it though, the coaches are supposed to be the experts

The commentators were saying it all day; "Atlanta's only got 6 men in the box, blah, blah, blah." If they could stop our "power running" attack with 6 men then we have problems. Showing the defense different looks and running more screens and play action could keep them honest. As it is the offensive play calling is predictable 85% of the time, and idiotic 15%.
Originally posted by trogdor:
Originally posted by 49erFan:
I think it's safe to say that there is plenty of frustration, with the 49ers offense this season.

Fair enough.

Anyone can point out a problem, but that doesn't solve it. So, what are the solutions?

Fans can call for the heads of Singletary, Raye, or the players, however, nobody is going anywhere this year. We have who we have, and the question is, what can be done to best utilize what we have?

Personally I feel Singletary's approach of a ball control offense, is what best fits the personell we have. We simply don't have the talent at the QB, OL, or WR positions to open the offense up too much, without expecting a dramatic increase in turnovers. Our defense is good, but if they are on the field the whole game they will tire, and be less effective.

Now, while I agree with the general approach of the offense, I think the playcalling leaves much to be desired.

I think one of the things that needs to happen in order for the passing game to improve, is that Shaun Hill needs to get the ball to Vernon Davis more. Davis has been our most consistent reciever this year, and he needs to get the ball more. It's something that IS working for this offense, so I'm not sure why we get away from it. He will make a couple of plays and then doesn't have another pass thrown his way for 2 quarters. That needs to change in my view.

The other thing I think that may be helpful, is to have Davis, and Delaine Walker line up outside or in the slot. Davis is a talented guy, and Walker can be a dangerous reciever, but I'm not sold that they are being in used in a way that makes them most effective.

Giving the opposing defense some different looks and other options to think about, could very well help the running game. If Davis lines up at TE but then motions out to the slot, or out wide, he now has a linebacker covering him in space. That's a great matchup for us. Teams are going to have to account for those things being possible, but only if we start to actually do it.

I also think we need to start running off tackle more. The pulling and trapping for inside runs is simply not getting it done. So why not start running some splys where you allow the FB to lead to the outside, and give the RB some options as to which way he is going to cut? Some sweeps and shovel passes(like the one to Coffee today) would be nice too.

I think thus far, our running game has been so predictable, and that is what is making it easy to stop for the most part.

Again, in general, I think the ball control conservative offense is what fits our talent best. What I do think needs to change though, is the creativity of the playcalling.

Your thoughts?

You summed it up pretty well right there. Not sure how to fix it though, the coaches are supposed to be the experts

The commentators were saying it all day; "Atlanta's only got 6 men in the box, blah, blah, blah." If they could stop our "power running" attack with 6 men then we have problems. Showing the defense different looks and running more screens and play action could keep them honest. As it is the offensive play calling is predictable 85% of the time, and idiotic 15%.

Ted Robinson and Co. were saying it looked like some of those pass plays they played had never been practiced. If true, that would not suprise me one bit...
The offense needs to be more vertical and less horizontal. I don't mean heave it down the field every play. But it seems that Raye's playcalling is more tying to chip away at a defense rather than attacking them. The "chipping away" mentality is not working. They need to be more aggressive.

In stead of running up the gut every first down, then throwing a quick out for two yards on second down, then face a third and long, how about throwing it over the middle for like 10-15 yards? I think they all are afraid to turn it over.
we really need to start running outside more
The offensive line.
  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,284
Originally posted by teeohh:
we really need to start running outside more



Our only touchdown of the day on a pitch.

I can't believe we try to run up the middle when our guards get demolished every play.

I have no idea how Frank Gore broke two long runs through the middle of that line. He deserves a medal of honor for that performance.
Originally posted by matt49er:
The whole team sucked today that's for sure. What we can't do is panic and try and change everything, remember we're 1 play from being a 4-1 team right now, we're 3-0 in our division. Going into today our D was ranked #6 overall, with Gore our running game was good, VD is playing very well and Crabtree just signed and B.Jones is now healthy. We have alot of good things going for us. During this bye week we need to watch alot of film, coach needs to do alot of butt kicking and we need to get back to basics because what happened today was an unprepared team played uninspired football and got crushed then they gave up. we need to tinker with some things yes, mainly we need to focus on our OL, getting Gore back into the lineup, getting the D to play up to their capabilities and get Crabtree ready ASAP.

Oh I agree, there is certainly no need to panic. This team is going to compete for a playoff spot.

That being said, I think there is a general level of frustration with the offensive output so far this season. Surely there must be some things we can do with the talent we have, to improve.
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by trogdor:
Originally posted by 49erFan:
I think it's safe to say that there is plenty of frustration, with the 49ers offense this season.

Fair enough.

Anyone can point out a problem, but that doesn't solve it. So, what are the solutions?

Fans can call for the heads of Singletary, Raye, or the players, however, nobody is going anywhere this year. We have who we have, and the question is, what can be done to best utilize what we have?

Personally I feel Singletary's approach of a ball control offense, is what best fits the personell we have. We simply don't have the talent at the QB, OL, or WR positions to open the offense up too much, without expecting a dramatic increase in turnovers. Our defense is good, but if they are on the field the whole game they will tire, and be less effective.

Now, while I agree with the general approach of the offense, I think the playcalling leaves much to be desired.

I think one of the things that needs to happen in order for the passing game to improve, is that Shaun Hill needs to get the ball to Vernon Davis more. Davis has been our most consistent reciever this year, and he needs to get the ball more. It's something that IS working for this offense, so I'm not sure why we get away from it. He will make a couple of plays and then doesn't have another pass thrown his way for 2 quarters. That needs to change in my view.

The other thing I think that may be helpful, is to have Davis, and Delaine Walker line up outside or in the slot. Davis is a talented guy, and Walker can be a dangerous reciever, but I'm not sold that they are being in used in a way that makes them most effective.

Giving the opposing defense some different looks and other options to think about, could very well help the running game. If Davis lines up at TE but then motions out to the slot, or out wide, he now has a linebacker covering him in space. That's a great matchup for us. Teams are going to have to account for those things being possible, but only if we start to actually do it.

I also think we need to start running off tackle more. The pulling and trapping for inside runs is simply not getting it done. So why not start running some splys where you allow the FB to lead to the outside, and give the RB some options as to which way he is going to cut? Some sweeps and shovel passes(like the one to Coffee today) would be nice too.

I think thus far, our running game has been so predictable, and that is what is making it easy to stop for the most part.

Again, in general, I think the ball control conservative offense is what fits our talent best. What I do think needs to change though, is the creativity of the playcalling.

Your thoughts?

You summed it up pretty well right there. Not sure how to fix it though, the coaches are supposed to be the experts

The commentators were saying it all day; "Atlanta's only got 6 men in the box, blah, blah, blah." If they could stop our "power running" attack with 6 men then we have problems. Showing the defense different looks and running more screens and play action could keep them honest. As it is the offensive play calling is predictable 85% of the time, and idiotic 15%.

Ted Robinson and Co. were saying it looked like some of those pass plays they played had never been practiced. If true, that would not suprise me one bit...

I don't understand those quick passes Shaun was throwing at Vernon.... it seems like those were the right decisions based on how the defense was playing us....blitz and such.... I felt we could've broke some big plays if Vernon was in sync with Shaun..... I wonder how much we practice those scenarios....it doesn't seem like we do.

also, please mods don't merge this thread with those other complaining ones.....those are just filled with BENCH SHAUN, BENCH BRUCE, FIRE SING, FIRE bla bla.......this is a pretty good thread....please don't merge.

[ Edited by Afrikan on Oct 11, 2009 at 22:13:25 ]
Originally posted by 49erFan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
The whole team sucked today that's for sure. What we can't do is panic and try and change everything, remember we're 1 play from being a 4-1 team right now, we're 3-0 in our division. Going into today our D was ranked #6 overall, with Gore our running game was good, VD is playing very well and Crabtree just signed and B.Jones is now healthy. We have alot of good things going for us. During this bye week we need to watch alot of film, coach needs to do alot of butt kicking and we need to get back to basics because what happened today was an unprepared team played uninspired football and got crushed then they gave up. we need to tinker with some things yes, mainly we need to focus on our OL, getting Gore back into the lineup, getting the D to play up to their capabilities and get Crabtree ready ASAP.

Oh I agree, there is certainly no need to panic. This team is going to compete for a playoff spot.

That being said, I think there is a general level of frustration with the offensive output so far this season. Surely there must be some things we can do with the talent we have, to improve.

no doubt we can, we're a different team w/Gore and we haven't had Jones/Crabtree the 2 guys brought in to bring life to our WR core at all this year. I think those 2 will be able to show us something next week especially Jones. The OL is the biggest concern as the unit has had no consistency this year. The D will def bounce back and be fine. we really need a strong showing in Houston after this.
Bruce was solid last year, but I, like others have noticed a major drop-off in his production. He was never a burner, but he was always a great route-runner and sure-handed receiver. Now he consistently fails to get separation and is dropping a ton of balls. It would be nice to see some other guys worked in like Hill and Jones, maybe even Battle, but I doubt that will happen.

OL obviously is hurting us right now. Chilo is getting dominated week in and week out. I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if he was replaced with Wragge.

QB is a quagmire. Hill makes good decisions and avoids turnovers, but is betrayed by sub-par physical skills. Those showed today when we had to throw and couldn't do it. He had had two good drives when allowed to throw, but I find myself surprised when he makes a good play rather than satisfied. This is not a quality we want in our starting QB. Smith, on the other hand, has the tools but makes poor decisions and gets rattled. I would have liked to see him in the game today, though. That said, I really doubt we see a QB change during the bye. If anything, Hill would need to suck it up vs. HOU and IND.

[ Edited by merm49 on Oct 11, 2009 at 23:17:38 ]