Originally posted by brhokla:Originally posted by wailers15:
Hill only has a decent rating because he throws 5 yard passes all day.
On 3rd and 8.
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start alex smith after the bye?
start alex smith after the bye?
Oct 12, 2009 at 3:53 PM
- Gavintech
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Oct 12, 2009 at 3:54 PM
- djfullshred
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Originally posted by Gavintech:Originally posted by djfullshred:
Everyone already knows what Alex Smith brings to the table. There is no mystery there. He has a lot of limitations too.
I don't think anyone does. People know how well a 21 year old Alex Smith played on a horrible team with no receivers. Nothing more. That is a limitation of knowledge, nothing more.
I'm not saying Alex would immediately change the offense overnight. It will take a little time since he has not seen real NFL work in over 2 years. What I'm saying is...
A.) as smart as most people on this forum think they are they DO NOT KNOW how he would play
&
B.) there's no way he would play any worse than Hill and it's really worth a try to find out. Hill has SUCKED for 5 straight games and doesn't seem to be figuring it out. It's really worth a try to find out what a healthy, 25 year old Alex Smith can do. There is a reason he was drafted #1 overall and Shaun Hill was not even drafted.
Everyone does already know that:
* Smith is not a natural improviser. He struggles until completely knowing the playbook inside & out.
* He is not consistently accurate. Throws at peoples feet when hurried. Will sometimes start a good drive, then throw a stinker of a pass on 3rd down.
* Sometimes gets happy feet instead of standing tall in the pocket. Throws the ball away out of fear of making a mistake too often in a game.
* Does not have that instinctive pocket awareness timer. Holds on to the ball too long, and throws late or behind the was-once-open receiver.
As far as him being given a chance just because he was #1 pick...that is all water under the bridge now. In case you didn't notice, they renogotiated that salary because they realized finally he was not that caliber of a player.
Oct 12, 2009 at 3:59 PM
- kem99
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Singletary is going to stick with Hill for the immediate future because its clear he doesn't believe the main problem lies with Hill. He sees the OL's inability to give Hill time and to consistently open holes for the run game -- which put the offense in 3rd and longs consistently -- as the main problems on offense. He's going to wait and see what the offense looks like with Gore back, Crabtree in the mix and any reshuffling of the OL that goes on during the bye week before making a QB change. But, if they lose to the Texans and Colts, are 3-4 and have lost 4 of their last 5, it may be time then to give Smith a shot...or at least Hill's leash will be much shorter in Game 8.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM
- Gavintech
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Originally posted by djfullshred:
Everyone does already know that:
* Smith is not a natural improviser. He struggles until completely knowing the playbook inside & out.
* He is not consistently accurate. Throws at peoples feet when hurried. Will sometimes start a good drive, then throw a stinker of a pass on 3rd down.
* Sometimes gets happy feet instead of standing tall in the pocket. Throws the ball away out of fear of making a mistake too often in a game.
* Does not have that instinctive pocket awareness timer. Holds on to the ball too long, and throws late or behind the was-once-open receiver.
No. They know that about a 22 year old Alex Smith. Not Alex Smith today.
And as far as this goes...
* Smith is not a natural improviser. He struggles until completely knowing the playbook inside & out.
Just because his college coach said that about the way he was when he was 19 and Barrows mentions it over and over and over it does not mean it's true. We've all seen him improvise and make plays with his arm and his legs.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:03 PM
- djfullshred
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Originally posted by Gavintech:Originally posted by djfullshred:Originally posted by WillistheWall:Originally posted by djfullshred:Originally posted by WillistheWall:Originally posted by djfullshred:Originally posted by TheRatMan13:Originally posted by GhostofJimmyDean:Originally posted by TheRatMan13:Originally posted by alpha81:
So what is a game manager??? Three and outs? This sucks! Matt Maiocco just said that Alex has the arm and the potential to lead this team.
Say what you will about Smith, but I think he is the better QB. I think it is funny how people will bash him and say "in 06 he played horrible all game and then pulled a couple drives off to win some games". Shaun Hill has done the same thing, the only difference is that at least Smith you have the threat of a deep accurate pass. Norv Turner said that was Smith's best attribute.
I think if Hill comes out and the offense looks this bad in the first quarter against Houston, he will have no problem pulling Hill. Thats how Hill took the Job from O'Sullivan last year.
Call it an Alexcuse or what you will, but the kid has NOT had a fair shot and basically lost his starting job due to injury. When he was healthy, he was showing a lot more promise than what Hill has, and he did it with a lot less talent.
Deep accurate pass? When has he ever had that? Never. Deep maybe, but hardly accurate.
You people only see what you want to see. The love affair with Smith is over. Learn to move on. Smith fans are like a battered wife who won't leave their husband because "It's not his fault he's like this" and because "he can change".
Wrong. He won't change. He's always sucked and will continue to suck. And that bruise on your eye? Everyone knows you didn't get it falling in the shower.
First off, I didnt say it. Norv Turner said it. I would take his word over yours.
Second, if you think that Shaun Hill is running this offense better than Smith did when he was last healthy, you are blind. The reason why Smith didnt have the wins that Hill does is because he had ZERO defense to bail him out. Up until this game, the defense kept this horrible offense out of trouble.
Im not saying Smith is the answer, I am saying that the guy was showing marked improvement before he got injured. We havent been able to see what he can do after being able to sit and watch for 2 seasons. I also am not saying that Hill should be benched just yet. More than anything, I cant understand why he wasnt put in the game when it was clear we were out of it.
I would like to see what he has to offer. If he sucks then he sucks, but at least give him the opportunity if your current starter is not getting it done. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure he only completed 4 or 5 passes in the first half. That, by my standards, is not getting it done.
Thought I'd look up those pre-injury stats from 2007, because I don't remember Smith being clearly better than what we have seen with Hill thus far, and not having to rely on the defense to bail him out in his few wins...
2007 game one win against Cardinals: 3 for 12 in 3rd down conversions. 102 total net yards passing. No TD passes.
2007 game two win against Rams: 3 for 13 in 3rd down conversions. 97 total passing yards. No TD passes.
2007 game three loss against the Steelers: 5-15 in 3rd down conversions. 198 total passing yards. One TD pass.
2007 game four Smith suffers shoulder injury against Seahawks.
Just as I remember it. Smith was very much struggling before he was injured. People often talk about him as if he had established something, and was on his way to the big time before being injured. That clearly is not the case.
Eh he had worse WRs than Hill does and he had Hos. He sould've gotten credit for a TD in the game vs AZ but Battle fumbled the ball at the one yard line. DDrop was dropping everything, so were VD and Battle. But in 06 was when he was playing well on a decent team that would've made the playoffs if the defense had been mediocre. In camp all we heard was he was hitting Brandon Jones on deep passes over and over again. With Smith at QB we might be able to actually use some of the new players we have, like Crabtree and Jones.
Do you think the 49ers WRs are playing good this year? Because it seems to me there has been a lot drops of very catchable balls this year.
I'm not saying they're not dropping some balls, but they are getting open way more than the WRs Smith had in 07. In the AZ game they showed clips of Morgan running some really good routes and getting himself wide open, but he didn't see the ball. And I saw atleast 5 times he got open pretty quickly and Shaun opted to throw a dump off pass instead. That was in one game. In the Seattle game he got open some too, again he didn't see the ball thrown his way. VS STL if that ball is thrown better, it's a TD instead of a drop but the way it came pretty much straight down he couldn't catch it in stride. You can't sit here and tell me that Hill has been pplaying good, because he didn't have to do much at all in those games that we did win. He played well on the last drive in AZ, but before that I was ready to throw my TV out the window. In Seattle he had like 140 yards passing even though he dropped back like 30 times, had 27 attempts IIRC and 3 or 4 sacks. Guys have been getting open on out routes and he winds up throwing a pie giving the DB time to recover and break up the pass. This isn't working and it's hurting our O. Our WRs looked good last year, and now they suck? I don't by that. We were supposed to have a good stable of recievers this year, now the only guy playing well is Vernon and he's a TE. I know guys have been getting open, and on a lot of those plays Shaun is missing his reads or scared to throw past 10 yards.
The question is though, is there another QB on the roster that can recognize the open guys faster, and get the ball out there before the gaps close? Alex Smith is definately not known for this skill. It is one of the primary knocks against him.
How many 21 or 22 year old NFL QBs are? Because that's the only Alex Smith any of us know.
Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy older than Alex Smith was at the end of the 2006. season. How well do you think either of them would have played, starting 16 consecutive games on a team devoid of talent in the NFL as a 22 year old? Because that's all we know about Alex Smith, how he played as a 22 year old.
When you are a professional, they look at years of experience doing that job, not your birthdate. Smith is a four year veteran. At this point in his career he has to beat the man to be the man. His age is neither a reason to give him the nod to play, nor an excuse to use why he isn't starting. That's all there is to it.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:05 PM
- DaveWilcox
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I love this argument. It is the one constant around the webzone. I only wish we were debating Montana vs Young.
I am of the opinion that Hill has a very limited skill set. He has the weakest arm I have ever seen for a starting NFL QB. In order for Hill to lead a receiver he has to throw the ball before the team breaks the huddle.
Seriously though, he has looked bad all year except for a few drives, but mainly he has looked bad. He is holding the ball way too long and getting sacked because of it. At least with Alex we could utlize a rollout or moving pocket. We might even be able to throw a deep pass or two, you know, the passes that travel more than 20 yards in the air, which is like throwing a bomb for Hill.
I have seen enough of Hill and hopefully Sing has as well. The clock has struck midnight and Hill turned back into a pumpkin.
I am of the opinion that Hill has a very limited skill set. He has the weakest arm I have ever seen for a starting NFL QB. In order for Hill to lead a receiver he has to throw the ball before the team breaks the huddle.
Seriously though, he has looked bad all year except for a few drives, but mainly he has looked bad. He is holding the ball way too long and getting sacked because of it. At least with Alex we could utlize a rollout or moving pocket. We might even be able to throw a deep pass or two, you know, the passes that travel more than 20 yards in the air, which is like throwing a bomb for Hill.
I have seen enough of Hill and hopefully Sing has as well. The clock has struck midnight and Hill turned back into a pumpkin.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:08 PM
- djfullshred
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Originally posted by Gavintech:Originally posted by djfullshred:
Everyone does already know that:
* Smith is not a natural improviser. He struggles until completely knowing the playbook inside & out.
* He is not consistently accurate. Throws at peoples feet when hurried. Will sometimes start a good drive, then throw a stinker of a pass on 3rd down.
* Sometimes gets happy feet instead of standing tall in the pocket. Throws the ball away out of fear of making a mistake too often in a game.
* Does not have that instinctive pocket awareness timer. Holds on to the ball too long, and throws late or behind the was-once-open receiver.
No. They know that about a 22 year old Alex Smith. Not Alex Smith today.
And as far as this goes...
* Smith is not a natural improviser. He struggles until completely knowing the playbook inside & out.
Just because his college coach said that about the way he was when he was 19 and Barrows mentions it over and over and over it does not mean it's true. We've all seen him improvise and make plays with his arm and his legs.
Throwing the ball out of bounds to avoid a sack is not exactly good improvising.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:09 PM
- Gavintech
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Originally posted by djfullshred:
When you are a professional, they look at years of experience doing that job, not your birthdate. Smith is a four year veteran. At this point in his career he has to beat the man to be the man. His age is neither a reason to give him the nod to play, nor an excuse to use why he isn't starting. That's all there is to it.
Ya, they really do look at age. That's all anyone talked about in 2006, how young he was and how promising he looked for a QB that should have just finished his Senior year in college.
Alex did not have a chance to "beat the man" (it pains me to call Hill "the man" after the last 5 games) because he was not able to practice or play the last two weeks of the PS and the coaching staff knew he was not going to suit up for week 1 in Atlanta due to the hand injury. If you'll remember correctly there was no starter announced until about 5 minutes after we found out Smith would be out for 2-3 weeks with a hand injury. Hill was not named starter until that was known by the team.
Damn the details though, right?
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:10 PM
- brhokla
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Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
I love this argument. It is the one constant around the webzone. I only wish we were debating Montana vs Young.
I am of the opinion that Hill has a very limited skill set. He has the weakest arm I have ever seen for a starting NFL QB. In order for Hill to lead a receiver he has to throw the ball before the team breaks the huddle.
Seriously though, he has looked bad all year except for a few drives, but mainly he has looked bad. He is holding the ball way too long and getting sacked because of it. At least with Alex we could utlize a rollout or moving pocket. We might even be able to throw a deep pass or two, you know, the passes that travel more than 20 yards in the air, which is like throwing a bomb for Hill.
I have seen enough of Hill and hopefully Sing has as well. The clock has struck midnight and Hill turned back into a pumpkin.
You spoke my words for me. I think I'll take Alex from 06 over what we have seen from Hill any day. He can throw deep and he can throw a NFL SPIRAL.... He can also throw with some velocity which Hill cannot do. I'd rather fail with Smith then fail with Hill.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:10 PM
- kezar49er
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Originally posted by wailers15:Originally posted by kezar49er:Originally posted by pd24:
I think Smith takes over after Mid season. Hil is Hill, he isn't going to get any better and with him at QB the O will not score more than 14 pts a game.
I really think this has been the plan all along. The 49ers didnt want to put too much pressure on Smith right away. They are letting him get comfortable with the offense before they put him in. They know what they have in hill..... thats why they kept Smith..they still dont know what they have in him.
LOL that's the plan? are you serious? Smith is gone after this yr. he did absolutely nothing to assert himself. done in sf!
Yea i,m serious. Smith will be playing this year. The fans will turn on Hill after a few more games like the last one, its inevitable, its what they do. You are a prime example of that just in reverse. Smith might not be here next year but they will have a good idea about that by seasons end. LOL if you think Hill is the answer. I think you need to take a deep breath.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:11 PM
- millerb1
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I supported Alex for 3 years. I was patient. But after watching young qbs like Stafford, Ryan and Flacco I have to shake my head and wonder how the 49ers were so unfortunate to wind up with the number 1 pick in the worst draft in decades.
I don't see Alex Smith getting any better.
Never trust a Ute.
I don't see Alex Smith getting any better.
Never trust a Ute.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM
- Gavintech
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Originally posted by djfullshred:Originally posted by Gavintech:Originally posted by djfullshred:
Everyone does already know that:
* Smith is not a natural improviser. He struggles until completely knowing the playbook inside & out.
* He is not consistently accurate. Throws at peoples feet when hurried. Will sometimes start a good drive, then throw a stinker of a pass on 3rd down.
* Sometimes gets happy feet instead of standing tall in the pocket. Throws the ball away out of fear of making a mistake too often in a game.
* Does not have that instinctive pocket awareness timer. Holds on to the ball too long, and throws late or behind the was-once-open receiver.
No. They know that about a 22 year old Alex Smith. Not Alex Smith today.
And as far as this goes...
* Smith is not a natural improviser. He struggles until completely knowing the playbook inside & out.
Just because his college coach said that about the way he was when he was 19 and Barrows mentions it over and over and over it does not mean it's true. We've all seen him improvise and make plays with his arm and his legs.
Throwing the ball out of bounds to avoid a sack is not exactly good improvising.
That's not what I'm talking about but yes, it definitely can be.
Sacks are a part of the game (especially if you're a 9er QB) and there have been more than a coupe occasions already this season when Hill did not throw the ball away and took a sack that took the team out of FG range.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:14 PM
- Gavintech
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Originally posted by kezar49er:
Yea i,m serious. Smith will be playing this year. The fans will turn on Hill after a few more games like the last one, its inevitable, its what they do.
Most of them haven't after 5 games like the last one. I don't think it matters how bad he plays if there is a win involved. Just because there are three wins against the NFC West doesn't mean Hill played all that well in ANY of them. He didn't but most didn't seem to notice or care because they were all wins.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:14 PM
- DaveWilcox
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Originally posted by millerb1:
I supported Alex for 3 years. I was patient. But after watching young qbs like Stafford, Ryan and Flacco I have to shake my head and wonder how the 49ers were so unfortunate to wind up with the number 1 pick in the worst draft in decades.
I don't see Alex Smith getting any better.
Never trust a Ute.
And do you really expect Hill to get any better?? He has no tools to work with. He has no arm.
BTW.. Utes are OK in my book.
Oct 12, 2009 at 4:18 PM
- djfullshred
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Originally posted by Gavintech:Originally posted by djfullshred:
When you are a professional, they look at years of experience doing that job, not your birthdate. Smith is a four year veteran. At this point in his career he has to beat the man to be the man. His age is neither a reason to give him the nod to play, nor an excuse to use why he isn't starting. That's all there is to it.
Ya, they really do look at age. That's all anyone talked about in 2006, how young he was and how promising he looked for a QB that should have just finished his Senior year in college.
Alex did not have a chance to "beat the man" (it pains me to call Hill "the man" after the last 5 games) because he was not able to practice or play the last two weeks of the PS and the coaching staff knew he was not going to suit up for week 1 in Atlanta due to the hand injury. If you'll remember correctly there was no starter announced until about 5 minutes after we found out Smith would be out for 2-3 weeks with a hand injury. Hill was not named starter until that was known by the team.
Damn the details though, right?
If they really thought Smith was clearly better than Hill, he would have been named starter despite having a hand injury that would possibly make him miss the first game of the season.
Is it so hard to beleive that two different coaching staffs knew what they were looking at when they thought another guy was better than him two years in a row? You do know they see alot more of what the players abilities are than what we do for three hours once a week in a game during the season.
[ Edited by djfullshred on Oct 12, 2009 at 16:19:43 ]